Immortals and their magical powers

[Cat Pillar]

More thoughts on the topic.

 

You are information, not physical matter. 98% of your body is replaced with new atoms each year.

 

You are flowing, a happening, not a thing. If you look at water sculptures this is more an accurate representation of what you are, than a stone sculpture.

 

What is the information that comprises the "you," and how is it known?

[zerostao]

its cool here in the information age, aint it?

information is not just some random firing bits.

edit> information is the nature of reality.

Edited August 22, 2012 by zerostao

[Thunder_Gooch]

This physical world we all find ourselves in, isn't exactly physical itself.

 

All physical matter in the universe was born (ultimately) from the void, empty space.

 

When strong enough quantum vacuum fluctuations arise spontaneously, they cause the void to separate into matter/energy and antimatter/negative energy in equal amounts.

 

In essence there is no ultimate building block of matter, just the emptiness, the void.

 

Everything is quite literally spun out of nothingness.

 

 

If this is hard to grasp, imagine that to make a coin it must be first stamped from a sheet of metal leaving behind a hole.

 

The sheet of metal in this case was empty space.

 

You might also think about it like this. If you dig a hole in the ground you will have a hole and pile of dirt. If you fill the hole with the dirt again, you'll be left with what you started.

 

Empty space is really as full, and as pregnant with being as anything in our universe can be. It is more real than physical matter even.

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

 

 

Hawking says that at the event horizon of a black hole or singularity the gravitational field is so strong it rips apart the virtual particle pairs of empty space, and sucks in an antimatter particle and emits a particle.

 

The antimatter reacts with the matter inside the black hole and this causes the black hole to slowly evaporate over aeons, and reseeds the universe with matter.

 

The matter that was in the black hole was not destroyed but instead turned back into virtual particles which is what empty space is, an infinite ocean of virtual particles.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[zerostao]

This physical world we all find ourselves in, isn't exactly physical itself.

All physical matter in the universe was born (ultimately) from the void, empty space.

When strong enough quantum vacuum fluctuations arise spontaneously, they cause the void to separate into matter/energy and antimatter/negative energy in equal amounts.

In essence there is no ultimate building block of matter, just the emptiness, the void.

Everything is quite literally spun out of nothingness.

If this is hard to grasp, imagine that to make a coin it must be first stamped from a sheet of metal leaving behind a hole.

The sheet of metal in this case was empty space.

You might also think about it like this. If you dig a hole in the ground you will have a hole and pile of dirt. If you fill the hole with the dirt again, you'll be left with what you started.

Empty space is really as full, and as pregnant with being as anything in our universe can be. It is more real than physical matter even.

could be that everything is spun out of nothingness. and then maybe not.

information.

thought.

wu chi. are some things i ponder upon. tesla said to think of energy, vibration, and frequency.

if a magician can pull a rabbit out of a hat. couldnt the rabbit just jump out from nothing on its own? emergence.

edit> or just from some very basic basics. simple to complex. inforamtion.

Edited August 22, 2012 by zerostao

[Thunder_Gooch]

"Truly speaking, nothingness is what we want to talk about when we talk about the spiritual only it's all been ignored, it's been put down, saying oh, bleah! nothingness! Heaven preserve us from that! But… that's where the secret lies! And obviously the secret always lies in the place you never think of looking for it!"

-Alan Watts

You will find that when Buddhists use the word 'mind', they mean space. See, space is your mind. It's very difficult for us to see that because we think we're IN space, and look out at it.-Alan Watts

Truly, I have attained nothing from total enlightenment.-Buddha

"We and everything in our world are all from the emptiness and will go back to the emptiness. It is a state of pure energy where we are one with the universe. -- Chunyi Lin creator of Spring Forest Qigong

"Your body is empty; emptiness is your body. Emptiness
is nothing but your body, and your body is nothing but emptiness."

"Every existing thing is emptiness."


"There are no eyes; no ears; no nose; no tongue; no body; no mind; nothing to see; nothing to hear; nothing to smell; nothing to taste; nothing to touch; and nothing to think of."


"There is no part of you that sees. There is no part of you that is aware of what you see; and this is true all the way up to the part of you that thinks, and the part of you that is aware that you are thinking."

-Buddha (quoted from The Heart Sutra)

"All existing things are such that no living being exists, and nothing that lives exists, and no person exists."


"A mind which is past is non-existent. And a mind in the future is non-existent. And a mind that is going on at the present is non-existent as well."


"At that moment there came into my mind no conception of a self, nor of a sentient being, nor of a living being, nor of a person —I had no conception at all. But neither did I have no conception."


"Bodhisattvas give all that they have, for the sake of every
living being. And this same conception of anyone as a living
being is a conception that does not exist; when the Buddha(One Gone)
Thus speaks of "every living being," they too are living beings
that do not even exist."

-Buddha quoted from the diamond sutra

Suffering alone exists, none who suffer;
The deed there is, but no doer thereof;
Nirvana is, but no one seeking it;
The Path there is, but none who travel it."

-Buddha quoted from the (Visuddhimagga) The Path of Purification sutra

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Cat Pillar]

 

Empty space is really as full, and as pregnant with being as anything in our universe can be. It is more real than physical matter even.

 

I would go further and say that physical matter isn't real in the first place.

[zerostao]

krauss is interesting but

http://www.pdfbook.co.ke/details.php?title=Mindful%20Universe&author=Henry%20P.%20Stapp&category=Science&eid=13282&type=Book&popular=1

 

edit> mpg ive been up all week, gonna try and get some rest even if i know there is no rest for the wicked.

look forward to checking back with ya

Edited August 22, 2012 by zerostao

[RyanO]

In the video, Krauss says that this universe is the most unlikely of places to support life because it will all eventually become cold, dead and lifeless, mostly empty space. But then he says that empty space has a ton of energy (potential or dark matter or something, not sure) and is where everything comes from. These seem like two contradictory ideas, am I missing something?

[RyanO]

You are alive because you have two spirits or minds, a yang mind/spirit and a yin mind/spirit.

 

 

 

 

The yang mind/spirit is what is reading these words and making sense of them, right now you are in your yang mind/spirit/consciousness.

 

Your yang mind/spirit is made of yang energy.

 

Yang energy is like sunlight, it is active and moves of it's own accord.

 

The yang mind/spirit is responsible for your active thoughts, ego, identity, emotions, desire, passion for life, etc.

 

At death this mind/spirit is scattered to the wind and becomes one with the environment.

 

Your consciousness is lost.

 

 

 

 

 

What remains is your yin spirit.

 

It is made of yin energy.

 

Yin energy is like gravity, a field that pulls objects to it passively and does not move of it's own accord.

 

Your yin spirit is responsible for observation, and memory.

 

This is what will remain of almost all beings on earth, a burnt out shell that just observes and awaits reincarnation as a passive observer.

 

 

I would say out of 7 billion people maybe a few hundred each generation fuse their yin and yang spirits as one whole and can survive death and prevent reincarnation. The practices that allow for this are disappearing quickly so likely in the future these will be lost all together.

 

I have no idea why most people cultivate, as they don't get anything meaningful out of it. I seek to fuse the yin and yang spirits as one and continue to exist as a mind as it was before it's death, and prevent future reincarnation.

 

Very thought-provoking ideas. Did you come up with this yourself or learn it somewhere?

 

It sounds very similar to binary soul doctrine:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lost-Secret-Death-Afterlife/dp/1571743243

 

( apparently in this instance the author is a Christian and suggests salvation is allowing Jesus to do the 'fusing' for you)

Edited August 22, 2012 by RyanO

[zerostao]

In the video, Krauss says that this universe is the most unlikely of places to support life because it will all eventually become cold, dead and lifeless, mostly empty space. But then he says that empty space has a ton of energy (potential or dark matter or something, not sure) and is where everything comes from. These seem like two contradictory ideas, am I missing something?

 

new stars are still being born all the time

[Thunder_Gooch]

Very thought-provoking ideas. Did you come up with this yourself or learn it somewhere?

 

It sounds very similar to binary soul doctrine:

 

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/1571743243

 

( apparently in this instance the author is a Christian and suggests salvation is allowing Jesus to do the 'fusing' for you)

 

It isn't something I came up with, it is what I've learned from studying neigong from many different schools.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[RyanO]

new stars are still being born all the time

 

sounds like Krauss is saying there will come a time when that's not happening

[RyanO]

It isn't something I came up with, it is what I've learned from studying neigong from many different schools.

 

cool, could you name specific sources?

 

your description sounds similar but not the same as what I know about Taoist immortality (basically creating a yang shen rather than fusing an already existing yang spirit with yin spirit), but perhaps it is the same just a different take.

[Thunder_Gooch]

cool, could you name specific sources?

 

your description sounds similar but not the same as what I know about Taoist immortality (basically creating a yang shen rather than fusing an already existing yang spirit with yin spirit), but perhaps it is the same just a different take.

 

The yin shen is the container of the yang shen. The yang shen would scatter were it not to have a container. Most people die with empty containers.

 

Longmen pai, mo pai, and students from other schools I've spoken with.

 

If you own the magus of Java you can read about the yin and yang spirits.

 

 

 

“I mean that a typical spirit is basically like our unconscious mind. He cannot think deliberately, make decisions, or create. He is subject to whatever he has brought with him.” John was silent for a time, then caught my eye and held me with his gaze. “For example,” he said, “your father can remember everything about you. He knows that you are his son. He remembers holding you in his arms when you were born. What he cannot remember is what it was like to love you.” We were shocked, all of us. “They have only yin,” he continued softly, “so what defines their continuation is simply their karma, good or bad. That is why it is so important to have yang to take with you when your time comes.”

 

Danaos, Kosta (2010-11-24). The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (pp. 122-123)

 

 

“So the stories of haunted houses are true,” I said. “Of course,” he replied. “Spirits are bound by space and time the same way as anything that exists,but on a different level because they are part of the yin world. We ourselves are yang; they are yin.” “But we have yin energy in our bodies too, right?” I asked. “Correct,” he replied. “However, a pure spirit exists in a different space-time continuum than we do. One year for us is one day for them, and they are not limited by the present moment but exist in the immediate future and past as well. Do you understand?”

 

........

 

 

 

 

“You know how in meditation we slow down our breathing and our pulse? It’s because we move more and more into our yin consciousness.” “I see. But are you saying that we have two separate bodies, a yin body and a yang body, and that our consciousness can move from one to the other?” “No. It is not so simple and easy as that. What I said is that everything on the earth is yang, though the earth itself is yin. We, as human beings, are yang creatures, but we have yin energy as well. It is the combination of the two that gives us life. When we die, when we cease to have life, our awareness moves to the yin state of being.” He paused. “But it does not remain unaltered in the process,”

 

 

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (pp. 51-52).

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

In the video, Krauss says that this universe is the most unlikely of places to support life because it will all eventually become cold, dead and lifeless, mostly empty space. But then he says that empty space has a ton of energy (potential or dark matter or something, not sure) and is where everything comes from. These seem like two contradictory ideas, am I missing something?

 

If the universe returns to a state where nothing exists anywhere, then time will be meaningless, and infinite time will pass instantly. Over the course of this infinite time, random vacuum fluctuations will occur and spawn a new universe.

[RyanO]

The yin shen is the container of the yang shen. The yang shen would scatter were it not to have a container.

 

Longmen pai, mo pai, and students from other schools I've spoken with.

 

If you own the magus of Java you can read about the yin and yang spirits.

 

Cool thanks

[RyanO]

If the universe returns to a state where nothing exists anywhere, then time will be meaningless, and infinite time will pass instantly. Over the course of this infinite time, random vacuum fluctuations will occur and spawn a new universe.

 

Cool idea, I have thought something similar.

[Thunder_Gooch]

You are like an electrical pulse traveling in a large neural network, or at least that is what I experienced in 2005 during meditation. I am no longer an Atheist as a result of what I experienced.

 

You move from the past, into the future, but both past and future are equally as real as the present.

 

What you observe now moment, to moment, is just a 3 dimensional cross section of a larger 4 dimensional reality as you move through it.

 

You exist in the past, the present and the future all at once. The you of yesterday, the you of tomorrow, are apart of one solid object.

 

This is much like a laser reading the data of a DVD, both past and future existing only in comparison to the location of the laser (your consciousness) reading the DVD (this location in infinity) at that moment.

 

There is a 5th dimensional aspect in which all possible events have already occurred, so should you choose to have juice and toast this morning, instead of cereal there is a reality which accounts for each. When you chose to have to juice and toast, you navigated to that reality, the other still exists as real as this one.

 

You get to choose your own adventure in a story book type fashion, but all of it existed before you ever observed it, at least as information.

 

All of these realities are apart of one object, an infinity.

 

 

Every thought that ever could be thought, every book that ever could be written, every movie that ever could be made, and every song that ever could be created, everything. It all exists just as real as anything else.

 

No one has ever done or created anything unique, or had any thought that was unique. Every possibility is an actuality.

 

The only thing that moves in this universe is your consciousness, reality is silent and still.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[eye_of_the_storm]

A lot of this sounds like The Matrix .... what are you thoughts on that? MPG

 

Perhaps if people wanted a visual understanding of what has been discussed?

 

Also wouldnt one need the apparent karma to come to the place of wanting to create the Immortal Self?

 

Or to be able to come across such knowledge?

 

So the Yin body wouldnt be an empty shell it would be the sum total of ones collective experience...

 

But the Karma thing... how does karma begin?

 

What is the First Cause? or the cause before the cause...

 

Also you say that everything is in the mind... / all is mind... I at present agree with...

 

So what if your experience of the nature of reality has been conditioned by Buddhism / Taoism etc so your mind has created that situation because that is what you at present believe...

 

So reality is as you said a mirror of your own mind?

 

So I can believe what ever I want and it will be true..for me totally and All that is will respond to that...

 

Therefore If I totally believe myself to be Immortal already without any elaborate techniques (mind games... to make one feel that they have worked / achieved...climbed to the mountain top) I will be.

 

Which is really you standing in the way of YOU?

Edited August 22, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

So the Yin body wouldnt be an empty shell it would be the sum total of ones collective experience...

 

If you define having no willpower to do anything at all, no concept or understanding of emotion, Just observing passively with no active thought, to not be an empty shell then I guess it isn't. I think of it more like a black box flight recorder on an airplane, it's what survives after everyone else on board is dead, and hardly a reasonable facsimile.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

So reality is as you said a mirror of your own mind?

 

More like your mind is the mirror, and you see a reflection of reality. A simulation, a representation of reality. Like a map of the land, and how it isn't the land itself.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

So I can believe what ever I want and it will be true..for me totally and All that is will respond to that...

 

 

Well... You can believe you can fly, doesn't make it so though. I think if you reached the maximum level of spiritual development you would have such abilities, but not before.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Therefore If I totally believe myself to be Immortal already without any elaborate techniques (mind games... to make one feel that they have worked / achieved...climbed to the mountain top) I will be.

 

Everyone is already immortal in the sense that their yin spirit will never die, it will begin anew when paired with a new yang spirit at conception. What is lost is ego, identity, memory, personality, etc.

 

You can't just believe yourself to have realized maximum spiritual potential though, I don't think it works like that.

 

Unless we extract enough yin and yang energies during our lifetime, and fuse them together we will die as weak passive yin only spirits, with no willpower, no emotion, no desire, and just passively wait till our reincarnation.

 

It's like most people on earth are caterpillars who are too busy watching TV to eat leaves and weave a cocoon, come winter they all freeze to death and fall off the tree, instead of undergoing metamorphosis.

 

Maybe a few hundred out of billions might make the transition.

Edited August 22, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hm thanks for your responses

 

You say we forget...that yang identity of this lifetime is lost... though wouldnt the yin body remember the yang body? having observered it entirely.... so it would be impossible to lose... we just forget momentarily?

 

What is it that remembers past lives from this yang perspective?

 

Why isnt observation considered active? to observe is an active thing... which would be a yang attribute... to observe is to see... to see is to react/respond... you say passive observation, is there such a thing... one can choose how one sees?

 

Then why not a passive Will?

 

Yin = unconscious mind? Yang = conscious mind?

 

left right brain? unified at the

 

Or heart and mind...

 

hmm you talk of extracting enough yin and yang energies? what is this process?

 

Does not insight, wisdom / meditation / contemplation - knowledge /awareness lead to anything?

Yang or Yin become aware of each other... and become... ? what is this fusion called?

 

What is desire? where does it come from?

 

What was the First Desire? First Cause... the causeless cause?

 

Is it even I who desires? I think that it is I... but maybe not...at this level anyway

 

Like The Universe, The All, The Great Tao is flowing through me...but I am THAT so it is and isnt "me" haha hmm

[Thunder_Gooch]

Hm thanks for your responses

 

You say we forget...that yang identity of this lifetime is lost... though wouldnt the yin body remember the yang body? having observered it entirely.... so it would be impossible to lose... we just forget momentarily?

 

The you that thinks of you as you dies at death unless it's fused with your yin spirit.

 

The yin spirit is just a shell with memory. It can't choose to do anything and has no willpower or emotion or active thought process.

 

At least this is my understanding.