张高澄道长 - Daoist Zhang Gaocheng

[Walker]

 

Has anybody heard of this fellow? He is currently overseeing construction of a new Daoist academy at Tiantai Mountain in Zhejiang Province. An acquaintance of mine recently published an article on him in which it was written that he spent 20 years in the US and has 25,000 students in North America, in addition to several teaching centers. If this is really the case, I'm surprised never to have seen his name mentioned anywhere; very little about him comes up on Google, either.

 

http://www.dao7.net/html/mr/ZhangGaoCheng/

Edited April 6, 2012 by Walker

[baiqi]

I have!

 

I did not meet him personnaly, but he's apparently a very nice person.

 

Other priests told me about this man because he was trying to make translations (with the help of a few laowai) in english and other european languages of some taoist classics.

 

He did spend some time in the US (I don't know how long), he can speak english, and drive a car

 

Usually, taoist priests don't really "show off", even if they are responsible for a lot of work. You don't really have a "Tao superstar" in China by now... But some are more famous than others in taoists circles.

 

I remember a video of him in Chinese, he was talking about self-cultivation that was interesting. If I find it I'll post it.

[baiqi]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzc3NjY4OTY=.html

 

 

Here is one!

 

Sorry, all is in Chinese...

[baiqi]

Oh yeah, he is from the Nanzong lineage, that is why I had heard of him.

[Walker]

Thanks for the info and the interview. Funny, they say his name is "Gaodeng" in the video but the other website says "Gaocheng." Ah, the wonders of 多音字...

[Ormus]

Interesting topic.Is he Patriarch of Nanzong Pai or lineage holder of some sub-branch?

 

Can you share something more about his western ceneters and students?

 

Ormus

[awaken]

I know him.

 

I met him two years ago.

 

He has bright big eyes.

 

He did a lot for Daoism.

[Ormus]

Dear Awaken,

 

is he Patriarch of Nanzong Pai in lineage of Zhang Boduan?

 

According to you is he real Nei Dan Master?

 

I find him interesteding and I hear a lot good words about him.

 

Ormus

[awaken]

He lives in 桐柏宮，Ton-bou gung.

 

桐柏宮 worship Zhang bou duan.

 

But he only teach 易筋經Yijin Jing for beginners.

 

He has a teaching Video that you can buy in 掏寶網 Taobao.

 

I don't know if he is a nei dan teacher or not.

 

I think he does cultivate nei dan, but he doesn't teach.

 

He is busy in raising money for 桐柏宮.

 

So if you are rich and you agree Zhang, please donate some money to 桐柏宮.

 

Thank you.

 

 

If you would like to donate, please contact this man, 陳師兄 Mr. Chen, wechat Id: cctv1998.

 

If he ask you, you may say I tell you.

 

My Chinese web name is 藍石.

 

 

 

I suggest that you can go to 桐柏宮 and stay there for some days.

 

They have a lot of rooms to stay.

 

 

Maybe I will go back to 桐柏宮 this summer.

 

I know some daoist monk 道士 there.

 

One of them would like to take me to another daoist temples.

 

If anyone like to go with me, maybe we can go together.

Edited January 27, 2017 by awaken

[Ormus]

Dear Awaken,

 

thank you for reply.I know Yi Jin Jing and I have his video.

 

I am sorry I am not rich to be able to support Monastery.

 

Ormus

[Walker]

He lives in 桐柏宮，Ton-bou gung.

 

桐柏宮 worship Zhang bou duan.

 

But he only teach 易筋經Yijin Jing for beginners.

 

He has a teaching Video that you can buy in 掏寶網 Taobao.

 

I don't know if he is a nei dan teacher or not.

 

I think he does cultivate nei dan, but he doesn't teach.

 

He is busy in raising money for 桐柏宮.

 

So if you are rich and you agree Zhang, please donate some money to 桐柏宮.

 

Thank you.

 

 

If you would like to donate, please contact this man, 陳師兄 Mr. Chen, wechat Id: cctv1998.

 

If he ask you, you may say I tell you.

 

My Chinese web name is 藍石.

 

 

 

I suggest that you can go to 桐柏宮 and stay there for some days.

 

They have a lot of rooms to stay.

 

 

Maybe I will go back to 桐柏宮 this summer.

 

I know some daoist monk 道士 there.

 

One of them would like to take me to another daoist temples.

 

If anyone like to go with me, maybe we can go together.

 

Yet more reason to be cautious of Awaken.

 

Earlier, in this post, when Awaken was attacking the Wu-Liu founders, texts, and current students, I posted the following sentence:

 

”二十三、丹经书籍众多，南五祖俱有书所言皆妙而切当，刘一明，黄元吉等人的书直言淋漓，不妨多读。伍柳仙踪其实精到，无眼力者看不明白，其余丹家都是大力真做之人，不善于下功夫的无法体悟其中妙趣。“

 

The Chinese roughly means:

 

”23: The alchemical classics are extremely numerous. The five patriarchs of the south [i.e., Southern Quanzhen] all have books that are all marvelous and well-worded. Liu Yiming's and Huangji's books state things bluntly and in great detail, so there is no harm in reading lots of them. The Wu-Liu Xianzong is factual, precise, and penetrating. Those without [knowledge/discernment/judgement] read without understanding it. The remaining alchemical classics are all by mighty true practitioners. Those who are not good at [putting time and energy into actual practice] have no way to comprehend the marvels within. “

 

To the above sentence Awaken swiftly replied:

 

"有眼力的實修者方知伍柳之荒謬."

 

Meaning:

 

"Only real cultivators with [knowledge/discernment/judgement] know that Wu-Liu is [preposterous/absurd/bullshit]."

 

The problem is that the quote I posted is attributed to none other than Zhang Gaocheng. It is number 23 on a list called, "张高澄道长对南宗祖庭弟子的要求," or, "Daoist Zhang Gaocheng's requirements for Disciples of the Southern School's Ancestral Hall." The list can be viewed here. Zhang Gaocheng himself is named as the author of this list.

 

To summarize this glaring conflict:

 

Awaken has devoted much time an energy to claiming that the original Wu-Liu texts (collectively referred to above as Wuliu Xianzong) are so full of mistakes as to be useless; she has insisted that Wu Chongxu and Liu Huayang were not realized practitioners; and she has attacked current inheritors of Wu-Liu teachings, not only because she thinks their teachings are wrong, but also because they take money.

 

And yet,

 

Here Awaken is trying to raise money for a monastery whose abbot has published the statement that those who do not understand the Wuliu Xianzong lack judgement/discernment/knowledge (眼力, literally "eye strength" in Chinese). I don't see how a person who has publicly declared her mission to stop the Wu-Liu school from "cheating" people out of money and time can then turn around try to help raise money for man who has published his high opinion of what she calls "absurd/preposterous/bullshit" (荒谬) teachings.

 

 

----------------------

 

Awaken:

 

I highly encourage you to make your visit to 桐柏宫 on Mount Tiantai this summer. I beg you to please do everything you can to secure a face-to-face meeting with Zhang Gaocheng while you are there. I furthermore beg you to show him the exact quote above (第二十三条) and ask him:

 

(i) Did he write that

(ii) Did he really mean it

(iii) What he thinks of your opinions about the 伍冲虚, 柳华阳, 《伍柳仙踪》, and current Wu-Liu masters and schools

 

Finally, I ask that following your visit to Mount Tiantai this summer that you please return to this thread and give us a thorough report on your conversation with Abbot Zhang.

 

Thank you.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Walker

[Taoist Texts]

 

  Liu Yiming's and Huangji's books state things bluntly and in great detail, so there is no harm in reading lots of them.

The Wu-Liu Xianzong is factual, precise, and penetrating.

Those without [knowledge/discernment/judgement] read without understanding it. 

 

You see, if a book can be read without harm, while the same is not said about the next book on the list - then it is fair to say that the latter is  relatively 荒謬 huāngmiù on a certain level.

 

Secondly, if for the latter a discernment is a must to understand - it means the chaff is abundantly mixed with the wheat  in it, hence the need for discernment to discern the chaff from the wheat. A book with a lot of chaff in it can be fairly characterized as 荒謬 huāngmiù.

[damdao]

You see, if a book can be read without harm, while the same is not said about the next book on the list - then it is fair to say that the latter is  relatively 荒謬 huāngmiù on a certain level.

 

Secondly, if for the latter a discernment is a must to understand - it means the chaff is abundantly mixed with the wheat  in it, hence the need for discernment to discern the chaff from the wheat. A book with a lot of chaff in it can be fairly characterized as 荒謬 huāngmiù.

 

Anew example of twisted logic.

It is fair to say that it is 荒謬  and even we can say more fairly that it is an UFO.

[awaken]

I have been to 桐柏宮 twice.

 

I have met 張高澄 道長

 

I have talked about wu liu's problems with other 道長 there.

 

What happen?

 

張高澄 道長 told me that I am right and I can continue to practice this way.

 

The other 道長 are very nice to me and took me to visit other places and hope me go there again.

 

One of 道長 is very interested in what I said.

 

I mentioned about the things they have not heard before.

 

I made three friends there.

 

 

 

I suggest you should go to China to check why your true teacher teach you this way.

 

You should meet more Chinese true teachers in China, not in Russia.

 

The wu Liu school you learned from Russia is very different from China.

 

You should go to China to see what happened.

 

I am not a wu Liu school practicer. I can't teach you.

 

But I can see your attitude is very different from other wu liu's practicers I have seen in China or Taiwan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me how to translate 道長 into English ?

 

Daoist?

Edited February 6, 2017 by awaken

[Taoist Texts]

Can anyone tell me how to translate 道長 into English ?

 

Daoist?

 

The Encyclopedia of Taoism: 2-volume set - Google Books Result

https://books.google.ru/books?isbn=1135796335

Fabrizio Pregadio - 2013 - ‎Reference

daozhang 道長“dignitary of the Dao” The daozhang is an ordained  Taoist  priest  (*daoshi)  who is qualified to perform *zhai (Retreat) and *jiao (Offering) ritual

 

 

  even we can say more fairly that it is an UFO.

 

LOL, what?))

[awaken]

So how should I say in English?

 

 

"daozhang"?

 

Or "Taoist priest"?

[Taoist Texts]

Daozhang sounds good to me

[awaken]

Thank you.

[Arkady Shadursky]

Yet more reason to be cautious of Awaken.

 

Earlier, in this post, when Awaken was attacking the Wu-Liu founders, texts, and current students, I posted the following sentence:

 

”二十三、丹经书籍众多，南五祖俱有书所言皆妙而切当，刘一明，黄元吉等人的书直言淋漓，不妨多读。伍柳仙踪其实精到，无眼力者看不明白，其余丹家都是大力真做之人，不善于下功夫的无法体悟其中妙趣。“

<...>

 

Nice point Walker.

The situation becomes even more weird taking into account that:

 

1) "Taoist Texts" claims to become immortal after reading Liu Huayang's text . However this doesn't prevent him and awaken to attack WuLiupai together and agree with each other on every statement. 

2) High-level Quanzhen Masters in China use Wu Chongxu's treatises as a textbooks on inner alchemy while teaching their disciples - they find Wu Chongxu's texts very clear and complete.

 

BTW, One of Masters has officially visited Dao De Center in Moscow last year and gave lectures based on WuLiupai's Tianxian zhengli treatise. And we were pretty surprised by that fact.

Master also noticed schemes from Liu Huayang's treatise on the walls, said he have studied them and gave us valuable comments on them.

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

Edited February 6, 2017 by Arkady Shadursky

[Ormus]

Dear Arkady,

 

the Master who wisited you is Longmen Pai of Wu Liu Pai student from Patriarch Master of the Single Yang?

 

Teachings of WLP are for sure authentic Nei Dan.Problem is who teach the students those methods.

 

Ormus

[Walker]

You see, if a book can be read without harm, while the same is not said about the next book on the list - then it is fair to say that the latter is  relatively 荒謬 huāngmiù on a certain level.

 

Secondly, if for the latter a discernment is a must to understand - it means the chaff is abundantly mixed with the wheat  in it, hence the need for discernment to discern the chaff from the wheat. A book with a lot of chaff in it can be fairly characterized as 荒謬 huāngmiù.

 

Arkady saw it as plainly as day. All that you have provided us with your 2000th cry for attention is insight into the pathetic Faustian bargain you use to justify your online fantasy role play as a Daoist master. You are so obsessed with defaming the Daode Centre that you mince and slobber after Awaken's every word, intoxicated by your primitive logic, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." But then even you can see that there is a problem here: you claim to have accomplished neidan, and you base that claim on your supposed ability to understand the Huimingjing. Yet Awaken tells us day in and day out that the Huimingjing is a useless, preposterous text, written by a Daoist with no accomplishment. However, you are desperate for camaraderie in your internet hobby, so you nevertheless latch onto the figure whose primary message includes this massively inconvenient point: even though she might not like the Daode Center, she's certain that your accomplishment is full of shit, too. Thus we get the above hackneyed, hairsplitting attempts at reinterpreting simple words, so that you can try to have your cake and eat it, too. It becomes clear that the lonely man with a penchant for prevarication and confabulation--as well as a mouse and a keyboard and enough unstructured time to be able to sit and watch this site like a hawk--makes his thousands of unconvincing posts to convince himself; to shore up the crumbling walls of his fantasy world. As long as he believes what he writes, and as long as he's desperate to derive meaning in life from this endless online charade, then he'll always be right. And he'll always be here. Because this is the internet, where there are few consequences for hypocrisy, and where attention and a little dopamine fix come very, very cheaply. Good for you, TT, good for you. Now go, go quickly, I'm sure Awaken needs her one-man pom pom squad somewhere. Leap and prance and entertain yourself. Good job, good job.

 

Oh, but wait, before you leave, make sure to send me some winky emoticons and attempt get the last word! Quick, the last word, get it dear boy, get it! Ah, perfect, yes, we believe you, we believe you. We just wonder if you really believe yourself.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Walker

[Walker]

I have been to 桐柏宮 twice.

 

I have met 張高澄 道長

 

I have talked about wu liu's problems with other 道長 there.

 

What happen?

 

張高澄 道長 told me that I am right and I can continue to practice this way.

 

 

I suggest you should go to China to check why your true teacher teach you this way.

 

You should meet more Chinese true teachers in China, not in Russia.

 

The wu Liu school you learned from Russia is very different from China.

 

You should go to China to see what happened.

 

I am not a wu Liu school practicer. I can't teach you.

 

But I can see your attitude is very different from other wu liu's practicers I have seen in China or Taiwan.

 

Can anyone tell me how to translate 道長 into English ?

 

Daoist?

 

Awaken: I see, thank you.

 

Firstly, I am not Russian. I have never knowingly met a single Wu-Liu practitioner, and I do not practice any Wu-Liu teachings. I have simply read the Wu-Liu texts. I have also seen that there is much respect for the 《伍柳仙踪》/Wu-Liu Xianzong in China. For example, I know a 龙门派 temple abbot very well who only practices "无为大道." This person respects the Wu-Liu Xianzong.

 

Secondly, thank you for beginning to share your story about meeting Zhang Gaocheng. Please tell us more detail. Please tell us exactly what comments you made about the Wu-Liu Xianzong and the Wu-Liu methods when you were there. Also, please tell us exactly what Master Zhang said to you in reply. The details are important to help people understand the nature of your argument, as well as Zhang Gaocheng's response.

 

Finally, why do you think that Zhang Gaocheng said that the Wu-Liu Xianzong is "其实精到?" Do you think he was lying? Or joking? Or wrong?

 

Thank you.

 

-----------------------

 

There is no easy way to render 道长 in English. Sometimes people write Daoist priest, sometimes people write Daoist monk or Daoist nun, and sometimes people write Daoist.

[Arkady Shadursky]

the Master who wisited you is Longmen Pai of Wu Liu Pai student from Patriarch Master of the Single Yang?

<...>

 

Excuse me, Ormus.

What do you mean?

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

[Ormus]

Arkady,you mentioned visiting Master to Dao De centar.And I asked to whom you refere because on your website I see there where few Masters who visited centar.

 

Ormus

[awaken]

We can show our concepts to every school.

 

But we should not judge every friends we have.

 

I have many friends practice wu Liu pai.

 

I know they practice wu Liu pai.

 

They know I don't agree wu Liu pai.

 

That is all.

 

We don't continue to argue by this different concepts.

 

And I don't like to talk this to an unfriendly people who I don't know on the net.

 

After I wrote so much posts here, you should know that.

 

If you even don't know the simple concepts from me, how can I except you to understand the concepts that are more complex?

 

 

When we talk to someone, to be friendly is very important.

 

I am sorry that your teacher didn't teach you that.

 

Having a good heart is very important for a daoist cultivator.

 

 

I can feel your hostility from a very far country, how can you expect I answer your questions?

 

煉心 cultivating our heart is very important part in daoist cultivation.

 

If your teacher don't do this, I suggest you should go to China to find more true teachers to see how they talk about 煉心。

 

 

 

I come here not for answering unfriendly people's questions.

 

I come here to inviting 'friends' here to practicing with me.

 

Of course, "friends " means friendly people.

 

I am glad to answer the friendly people who learn from me.

 

But I don't like to answer the questions from unfriendly people.

 

If you keep on ignoring my asking about the friendly heart, of course I would ignore your questions.

 

 

 

 

Chang daozhang is a great man.

 

He did a lot contribution for Daoism.

 

The temple , 桐柏宮， he stays is a good place.

 

Every daozhang has their own roads.

 

Chinese daozhang don't easily to share their core cultivating concepts unless they treat you as "friends".

 

When I met Chang daozhang, I don't ask him to answer these core questions.

 

Because I know it is not polite.

 

I am very sorry that your teacher didn't teach you these basic manners.

 

I made friends with some daozhangs there.

 

I don't ask them to share the core concepts with me, but some daozhangs discuss with me.

 

They are very careful to make sure that I just have a pure heart to make friends with them, then they start to share their core concepts.

 

So I am telling you a very important concepts.

 

If you want to discuss core concepts with a cultivators, to correct the heart is the first thing you need to do,not your rude questions.

 

正心誠意 correct the heart , be honest in your yii.

 

方可 so you can have

 

心正意誠 a 正 heart and an honest 意

 

 

談玄論道 talking about dao

 

不應 should not

 

刀光劍影 means full of hostility

Edited February 8, 2017 by awaken