宁 Posted June 11, 2011 Yes Steve, if there's any difference between daoists and buddhists, it's only in the way they're ending up their discussions Which reminds me, we kinda mixed business with pleasure, and forgot about business altogether. Neah, not that important anyways, who cares who's right?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted June 11, 2011 Yes Steve, if there's any difference between daoists and buddhists, it's only in the way they're ending up their discussions That's a little like my Taijiquan thread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis Posted June 11, 2011 @Otis the idea of play might work in our western mindframe, however it has little part to play in a coherent and specific methodology as appears to be the case with the daoist alchemy. it's work (of a specific nature) over (specific amounts of) time, again and again, until something (you have no prior idea or experience about) kind of 'settles' . we in the west don't have time for that sh*t, and try to kind of go around it, weaseling out of it by any philosophycal means. this is what worries me.. and the reason i don't find new age quacks palatable much Certainly play has little to do with a coherent and specific methodology; it is the alternative to it! Bear cubs learn to hunt, by starting to play fight with each other. This does not complete the training, but it is the tantric way to grow. Even when they accompany their mother on the hunt, they do so with no goal of catching the prize; it's just a time to pretend you're a hunter. At some point the hunt play must ignite all the way into making a kill, but all the preparation is built through play and modeling. Many animals build and maintain their skills through play, but only man has methods, systems, traditions and duty. IMO/IME, man is born with all the equipment and ability to grow and mature; and only needs to surrender to those systems, in order to exercise and activate those growth systems (a mature model, like an awakened teacher, helps as well). The surrender cannot happen through will and method, because those are accumulation, the opposite vectors from surrender. But neither does the surrender = apathy, because there is no growth there, either. So growth may come from surrendering through joyful, meaningless dance and play, trusting the built-in systems to guide me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Certainly play has little to do with a coherent and specific methodology; it is the alternative to it! Bear cubs learn to hunt, by starting to play fight with each other. This does not complete the training, but it is the tantric way to grow. Even when they accompany their mother on the hunt, they do so with no goal of catching the prize; it's just a time to pretend you're a hunter. At some point the hunt play must ignite all the way into making a kill, but all the preparation is built through play and modeling. Many animals build and maintain their skills through play, but only man has methods, systems, traditions and duty. IMO/IME, man is born with all the equipment and ability to grow and mature; and only needs to surrender to those systems, in order to exercise and activate those growth systems (a mature model, like an awakened teacher, helps as well). The surrender cannot happen through will and method, because those are accumulation, the opposite vectors from surrender. But neither does the surrender = apathy, because there is no growth there, either. So growth may come from surrendering through joyful, meaningless dance and play, trusting the built-in systems to guide me. Thanks Otis, what you say makes sense. not sure this is the case with dao alchemy though. If you want to understand my perspective (and, if curious, study a bit about modern lay daoist practice), i reccomend this book: Daoist Modern @Belle, thanks for the civility Edited June 12, 2011 by Little1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
