Cameron Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) Who has learned and practiced Winn's Kan and Li formulas? What are your experiences with them? Â Lately I have been feeling drawn to gving those practices another look. I find what Max has been saying about those practices interesting. Â Basically..and this is challenging for me to clarify to hopefully it will open up some discussion to refine it..those Kan and Li practices-though needed to be learned on some intellectual level at first-work best when they arise naturally out of deep stillness. Â I just started practicing Primordial Qigong again and possibly a daily primordial and inner smile practice would go far to setting the tone for letting the alchemy formulas arise. Â Though emptiness meditation seems like it would always be a good practice to explore regardless... Â This is a very big one I think so let's try to respect the different traditions involved and see how it is best expressed and explored. Â Cam Edited May 19, 2006 by Cameron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sean Posted May 19, 2006 Basically..and this is challenging for me to clarify to hopefully it will open up some discussion to refine it..those Kan and Li practices-though needed to be learned on some intellectual level at first-work best when they arise naturally out of deep stillness. That is such a cool way to word that. It's like, allow stillness cultivation into the core of your practice and also allow whatever to arise to arise ... sometimes (like in Springtime ) what arises will be the juicy, alchemical, blending stuff, and other times just the simple "ordinary" living of life ... chopping wood, carrying water. Sometimes an odd blend of both. Chopping wood, carrying a steaming cauldron. Â Sean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
affenbrot Posted May 20, 2006 Who has learned and practiced Winn's Kan and Li formulas? What are your experiences with them?  Lately I have been feeling drawn to gving those practices another look. I find what Max has been saying about those practices interesting.  Basically..and this is challenging for me to clarify to hopefully it will open up some discussion to refine it..those Kan and Li practices-though needed to be learned on some intellectual level at first-work best when they arise naturally out of deep stillness.  I just started practicing Primordial Qigong again and possibly a daily primordial and inner smile practice would go far to setting the tone for letting the alchemy formulas arise.  Though emptiness meditation seems like it would always be a good practice to explore regardless...  This is a very big one I think so let's try to respect the different traditions involved and see how it is best expressed and explored.  Cam  I am again gravitating towards the formulars in the moment. Funny, just in the moment I decided to sell my kan&li tapes, I thought how I actually liked the practice (especially with chia) and would like to pick it up again. I'm curious and fascinated by these formulars since a long time, so right know I believe I just want to learn and practice them (at least a goal in my spiritual practice after all ;-) , no matter how real, authentic and regarding spiritual cultivation - valuable they are supposed to be. Me too has following the highly inspiring discussion on the ht board. What my sifu said about alchemy also goes very much towards the perspective that you sit and the formulars unfold by itself. Still I'm coming back to this way of alchemy again and again. Some part of me still believes it's the real thing. I hope it's not bad karma that I'm so fascinated by it.  Regarding Winn's formulars, I only heard a tape course. What he has to say about the theory behind I found very inspiring, but I have a general problem with courses that are just taped real workshops. To much boring time inbetween (like you are forced to listen to how everybody gets up, shakes loose, laughs, settles down again and performs slow movements, ughh) I did the kan& li with chia once live and the meditations were very "real" and physical. When I practice it, I still recall my body memory from that time.  affenbrot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireblood Posted May 21, 2006 What my sifu said about alchemy also goes very much towards the perspective that you sit and the formulars unfold by itself. Â Strange that quite a few people have mentioned that lately. I was reading the Thirteen Chapters by Cheng Man Ching and he more or less sums it up as the same thing. He goes through the whole Kan and Li process, a simplified explanation, and indicates that it is a natural process that occurs after a "long time" of "keeping the mind and heart at the dantien". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) This is a very big one I think so let's try to respect the different traditions involved and see how it is best expressed and explored. Tsongkhapa is the bomb. "...bestow blessings, that we may achieve The wisdom of ecstasy and void conjoined." - Seventh Dalai Lama Edited May 21, 2006 by Trunk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted May 21, 2006 Ok..ok..Kieth I'll order it. Â Only 3 years after you first told me it is the holy grail. Â Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
affenbrot Posted May 21, 2006 Strange that quite a few people have mentioned that lately. I was reading the Thirteen Chapters by Cheng Man Ching and he more or less sums it up as the same thing. He goes through the whole Kan and Li process, a simplified explanation, and indicates that it is a natural process that occurs after a "long time" of "keeping the mind and heart at the dantien". so the Thirteen Chapters are not specifically about Taiji? I heard about the book several times - do you think it is a valuable reading for someone like me who is not into Taiji? And do you know what Dai Long Bang suggests to charge the dantian if meditation doesn't? Â thanks, affenbrot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireblood Posted May 21, 2006 so the Thirteen Chapters are not specifically about Taiji? I heard about the book several times - do you think it is a valuable reading for someone like me who is not into Taiji? And do you know what Dai Long Bang suggests to charge the dantian if meditation doesn't?  thanks, affenbrot   Thirteen chapters is a treasure trove of information, it contains Man Chings personal experience and interpretations of the classics. It's cheap too so worth buying for all the info it contains.  Dai Long Bang was passing on secrets of his style referring specifically to the integration of the dantien training for fighting purposes. You can meditate and do the taoist 'immortal' thing but it won't help you when you're getting your head kicked in. Training the dantien with regards to the martial aspect involves heavy practice of the forms of your chosen internal art. I'm researching this at the moment and shall be producing a website with my experiences of "making tai chi chuan work how it's supposed to".  Lot's of info on the net, it needs filtering though! Google it!  The new site address shall be:  http://www.tfbb.org  It's not ready yet btw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smile Posted May 22, 2006 It's funny how Google Adsense displays the ads totally unrelated to the subject. Fair Divorce, anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
