The Past...(?)

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

 

p.s. The worst dogmas are mental dogmas, the subtle blinders that keep one from actually being objective.

 

 

Yes, you finally got it! Just what we've been telling you!! Congratulations!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I very happy for you

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

ya, sure, when do you meditate? You don't even sleep!

.

 

Not much.

 

Your not on my ignore list, but most definitely on my "need a guru" list. Also, on the "need a strong steady practice" of which your totally devoted to on a level where you don't even socialize. Much as I needed and did do when I entered my 20's 15 years ago.

 

Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Ad-Hom.

 

I've put in the work, and I've had the experiential signs. Have you?

 

Me ego is SPIRITUALISED!! AMEN!!!

 

 

 

Yes, you finally got it! Just what we've been telling you!! Congratulations!!!

I very happy for you

.

 

Apparently you have no idea what I'm talking about, because it takes being free from mental dogmas to see past your limited view and perception.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Oh and the only posts that you've posted are tirades against me and Michaelz as people. That shows great talent, and humility on your part.

 

Congratulations!!

 

p.s. Yes, that's sarcasm.

 

 

Not much.

 

Your not on my ignore list, but most definitely on my "need a guru" list. Also, on the "need a strong steady practice" of which your totally devoted to on a level where you don't even socialize. Much as I needed and did do when I entered my 20's 15 years ago.

 

Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Ad-Hom.

 

I've put in the work, and I've had the experiential signs. Have you?

 

Me ego is SPIRITUALISED!! AMEN!!!

 

 

sorry, I had to post this, before you've had a chance to erase/edit yours...

 

(p.s., those experiential signs are to be considered obstacles....shhh....)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woo Hoo!! I haven't had this much fun since Kwan Yin and I went on that 4-day bender in Shanghai back in '26!

 

 

 

 

 

 

bye!

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Birch]

Back to OT.

 

From what I've understood and subsequently read, memories are present-generated, narrative in terms of our current experience and not in terms of our actual experience at the time we (first?) experienced them. So the baggage per se is just something we're carrying around (why we do that is another really interesting question - maybe it's useful sometimes?)

 

So yes, everything of ours, our past, our present, our future is experienced in the present, even if actual events took place in the past, are happening now or will take place in the future. The question I need to ask myself after that one is "but what actually happens apart from my experience then?" and I don't know the answer to that!

[SeriesOfTubes]

What is the most effective way of dealing with past scars and attachments?

 

Re-interpretation? Forgive and forget?

 

What exactly is the past? How does is leave its imprints? Why do we hold on to them?

 

everything that has ever happened to us is always happening to us. strong emotion is like a time tunnel

 

its physics/resonance.. just like an AM radio wave or a piano making guitar strings vibrate in the same room. the emotion being the energy or carrier signal for the personalized content. I think it fits well with the concept of time not really existing.

 

only in this case the strong emotion of the past event, for all intents and purposes, broadcasts through time and resonates with the present via the material in our bodies.

 

In my practice I take people back in deep hypnosis and vividly re experience the event, Once it emerges I give the child (sort of a fractured soul part for lack of a better term) what it needs to know to get through the event without picking up the misperception that cascades into the present as an overreaction. when we put them back together the feeling as it was located in the body is gone. Sort of like soul retrieval only the client really does most of the legwork.

 

so yeah it would be reinterpretataion or reality check. the initial event is almost never consciously remembered.

 

Cal Banyan's 'secret language of feelings' book is really good for understanding the purpose of emotion if one has difficulty with it.

[Vajrahridaya]

sorry, I had to post this, before you've had a chance to erase/edit yours...

 

(p.s., those experiential signs are to be considered obstacles....shhh....)

Woo Hoo!! I haven't had this much fun since Kwan Yin and I went on that 4-day bender in Shanghai back in '26!

bye!

 

LOL! No need to edit. They are only obsticles if attached to as absolute without understanding of dependent origination.

 

 

p.s. It's obvious that you don't actually read my posts, because you'd know what I would have said about experiences. It's like you've created someone to dis-like and projected that person on me, but your not really talking about me, your just naming this fictional character with my name, though the association is strictly imaginary on your part.

 

This as well goes along with the meaning of this thread, because this is what we do all the time to the current moment is project all over it stemming from subconscious conditioned through identity with the past within the limited frame of having been born, first of all. If we realize that we are never born, or re-born anew eternally, through actual experience of this fact in deep meditation, these limited identities and projections loose weight and are eventually emptied.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

LOL! No need to edit. They are only obsticles if attached to as absolute without understanding of dependent origination.

 

 

p.s. It's obvious that you don't actually read my posts, because you'd know what I would have said about experiences. It's like you've created someone to dis-like and projected that person on me, but your not really talking about me, your just naming this fictional character with my name, though the association is strictly imaginary on your part.

 

This as well goes along with the meaning of this thread, because this is what we do all the time to the current moment is project all over it stemming from subconscious conditioned through identity with the past within the limited frame of having been born, first of all. If we realize that we are never born, or re-born anew eternally, through actual experience of this fact in deep meditation, these limited identities and projections loose weight and are eventually emptied.

 

 

Whatever, doo-doo head. Whoever "you" are, your internet personality is smug and annoying as all hell.

But that's 'my' trigger, then idn't it?

 

Can't you at least admit that you annoy a lot of people here? Where are your defenders, besides Mikey (who I actually like).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, I'm bowing out of this scrap. Let the discussion continue....

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

 

OK, I'm bowing out of this scrap. Let the discussion continue....

.

 

Thanks...

[Tao99]

Me ego is SPIRITUALISED!! AMEN!!!

Actually, by your beliefs your ego has been "voided" not spiritualized, the spirit is exactly what you believe is delusion. You are not a spiritual being your a voided being or a "voidal" for short. You Voidals and your voidism have nothing to do with spirituality - in fact it's the exact opposite.

 

But the whole debate between spirituality vs voidality is all unprovable metaphysics to me. And anyway it is what it is, and will be what it will be, regardless of what we believe, so best just to lighten up, let it go, and go feed the cat! Surely Buddha can agree with this no?

[Vajrahridaya]

Actually, by your beliefs your ego has been "voided" not spiritualized, the spirit is exactly what you believe is delusion. You are not a spiritual being your a voided being or a "voidal" for short. You Voidals and your voidism have nothing to do with spirituality - in fact it's the exact opposite.

 

But the whole debate between spirituality vs voidality is all unprovable metaphysics to me. And anyway it is what it is, and will be what it will be, regardless of what we believe, so best just to lighten up, let it go, and go feed the cat! Surely Buddha can agree with this no?

 

Actually no... The realization of the inherently empty nature of being is not a grand nothing, there is no absolute void. See, your still reading into things and not seeing the real meaning. An ego that's free from itself is spiritualized. As Buddhism is deeply spiritual.

 

Realization of the essentially empty and interdependent nature of all experience and experienciables is not leaning to nihilism or Eternalism, but, it's seeing the open and infinitely connected flow of all sentient's and insentience. Emptiness basically say's "transformable"... not, "nothingness".

 

Thanks for reading and have a great day!

 

p.s. Don't forget to feed your kitties! LOL!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

p.s. Don't forget to feed your kitties! LOL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Lucky7Strikes]

everything that has ever happened to us is always happening to us. strong emotion is like a time tunnel

 

its physics/resonance.. just like an AM radio wave or a piano making guitar strings vibrate in the same room. the emotion being the energy or carrier signal for the personalized content. I think it fits well with the concept of time not really existing.

 

only in this case the strong emotion of the past event, for all intents and purposes, broadcasts through time and resonates with the present via the material in our bodies.

 

In my practice I take people back in deep hypnosis and vividly re experience the event, Once it emerges I give the child (sort of a fractured soul part for lack of a better term) what it needs to know to get through the event without picking up the misperception that cascades into the present as an overreaction. when we put them back together the feeling as it was located in the body is gone. Sort of like soul retrieval only the client really does most of the legwork.

 

so yeah it would be reinterpretataion or reality check. the initial event is almost never consciously remembered.

 

Cal Banyan's 'secret language of feelings' book is really good for understanding the purpose of emotion if one has difficulty with it.

 

Can the process of re interpretation go wrong? Instead of overreaction, what if it was an "under" reaction, thereby creating an adverse effect?

 

Or does the person take your interpretation to erase out his/her own negative associations with the memory?

Edited August 28, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Actually no... The realization of the inherently empty nature of being is not a grand nothing, there is no absolute void. See, your still reading into things and not seeing the real meaning. An ego that's free from itself is spiritualized. As Buddhism is deeply spiritual.

 

Realization of the essentially empty and interdependent nature of all experience and experienciables is not leaning to nihilism or Eternalism, but, it's seeing the open and infinitely connected flow of all sentient's and insentience. Emptiness basically say's "transformable"... not, "nothingness".

 

Thanks for reading and have a great day!

 

p.s. Don't forget to feed your kitties! LOL!

 

 

OK, Plato... a void, by definition is nothingness. Nothingness is void. All void is absolute. There is no 'relative void'. What would that be? Maybe these ideas of yours would make sense if you were able to explain them coherently. By the way, pay attention to my above argument...that's how one argues philosophically. Simple, direct, clear, incontrovertable., and devastating.

 

"As Buddhism is deeply spiritual"? Really? I thought it was like, cagefighting or something. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

 

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

 

hehe

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[SeriesOfTubes]

Can the process of re interpretation go wrong?

 

how do mean go wrong? with age regression in general?

 

I suppose theres a lot of things that could go wrong or be less than ideal. theres certain training required to do this work, otherwise regressions/ abreactions shouldnt be attempted. If they are not that insightfull, they could run out of the room without having it all properly tied together, and then be angry at the one who took them there. theres good and bad places to segue into wrapping up the session in the aloted time and have it feel complete even if theres more work to do. You wouldn't want to leave them feeling all crappy. Touching at the wrong time could be bad and anchor those feelings to a touch.

 

theres other things to be ready for. There could be Spirit attachments may require some release protocol.. michael baldwin phd wrote extenively on spirit releasement. The source might not originate in this life but you might not want to spend time going indefinitely through past lives so would have to make a good judgement where to do the informing.

 

That being said its not brain surgury. Even without proper reframing of the event and informing of the child, I think any release of emotion and catharsis is a step in the direction of healing. in the old days some regressionists would just go through the event over and over until the charge wore off and the 'part' wansn't so strongly affected. nowadays that's more of a plan b and only if the fragment that experienced the trauma is 100% resistant to information from the grown up.

 

not sure if that answers the question.

[Vajrahridaya]

OK, Plato... a void, by definition is nothingness. Nothingness is void. All void is absolute. There is no 'relative void'. What would that be? Maybe these ideas of yours would make sense if you were able to explain them coherently.

 

"As Buddhism is deeply spiritual"? Really? I thought it was like, cagefighting or something. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, sarcasm...but not much else seems to get through.

hehe

.

 

Again, you obviously have not read my posts. Is this seriously your purpose? Wow... Ok... because people are reading.

 

Emptiness is defined specifically in Buddhism as not "nothingness". Because it's actually the word... Shunyata... it has different meaning within Buddhist ontology.

 

Emptiness literally means... interconnectivity, or lack of inherent substance without negating of relative property. Lack of inherent being, but existing relative to all beings. As in, each point leads to all points and as well, since each point is dependent upon every other point, no point inherently exists on it's own.

 

Emptiness IN BUDDHISM means ultimate connectivity and creative changeability.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[SeriesOfTubes]

Can the process of re interpretation go wrong? Instead of overreaction, what if it was an "under" reaction, thereby creating an adverse effect?

 

Or does the person take your interpretation to erase out his/her own negative associations with the memory?

 

ok I didnt see your clairification

 

the overreaction happens in the present as a result of the past. its an over reaction because its like theres a stack of past events impinging on the present

 

an under reaction.. in the initial event (in the past) would be like someone for whatever reason, not being allowed to express an emotion but instead stuffing away. It would still resonate into the present and be a problem yeah. maybe it would be more like an inverted waveform idk still traceable though

 

no they dont actually take my interpretation.. the psyche of the client is split into grown up and child/part /fragment. that grown up part of them informs the child part what it wishes it would have known.

[Lucky7Strikes]

how do mean go wrong? with age regression in general?

 

I suppose theres a lot of things that could go wrong or be less than ideal. theres certain training required to do this work, otherwise regressions/ abreactions shouldnt be attempted. If they are not that insightfull, they could run out of the room without having it all properly tied together, and then be angry at the one who took them there. theres good and bad places to segue into wrapping up the session in the aloted time and have it feel complete even if theres more work to do. You wouldn't want to leave them feeling all crappy. Touching at the wrong time could be bad and anchor those feelings to a touch.

 

theres other things to be ready for. There could be Spirit attachments may require some release protocol.. michael baldwin phd wrote extenively on spirit releasement. The source might not originate in this life but you might not want to spend time going indefinitely through past lives so would have to make a good judgement where to do the informing.

 

That being said its not brain surgury. Even without proper reframing of the event and informing of the child, I think any release of emotion and catharsis is a step in the direction of healing. in the old days some regressionists would just go through the event over and over until the charge wore off and the 'part' wansn't so strongly affected. nowadays that's more of a plan b and only if the fragment that experienced the trauma is 100% resistant to information from the grown up.

 

not sure if that answers the question.

 

Ah ok!

 

Thanks for the answer.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

no they dont actually take my interpretation.. the psyche of the client is split into grown up and child/part /fragment. that grown up part of them informs the child part what it wishes it would have known.

 

This seems to happen a lot. How does one integrate the wise adult with the hurt child? As the hurt child still has control over a lot of the overreacting in the really let-go-able moment?

[SeriesOfTubes]

This seems to happen a lot. How does one integrate the wise adult with the hurt child? As the hurt child still has control over a lot of the overreacting in the really let-go-able moment?

 

in a session theres a formal way of putting them back together, placing the child into the heart of the client with the knowing that they share eachother's feelings and the individual's responsibility to be there for that part/child/fragment. If the child can be made to feel safe and not so disturbed then it should be pretty seamless.

 

After the child is informed of certain key things by the grown up, usually things like: its not gonna die, it gets to grow up, theres nothing wrong with them, the abuser they trusted is unworthy of that trust and actually an asshole etc. the emotional resonance from the past is collapsed and future reactions/emotions will be more in proportion with reality.

 

Someone on their own could reach into the past through an emotion to that part. get a sense of how old it is, tell it some things it needs to know that would have made the situation less traumatic and you should notice a movement of energy that would feel very healing.

[Vajrahridaya]

Someone on their own could reach into the past through an emotion to that part. get a sense of how old it is, tell it some things it needs to know that would have made the situation less traumatic and you should notice a movement of energy that would feel very healing.

 

Thanks for this, I felt a deep love in the center of my chest reading the entire post.

 

This is exactly what I've been doing over the years. Thanks for giving it genuineness.

[SeriesOfTubes]

Thanks for this, I felt a deep love in the center of my chest reading the entire post.

 

This is exactly what I've been doing over the years. Thanks for giving it genuineness.

 

great to hear & likewise. the resonance thing was a quantum leap for me. alot of these techniques evolved alot over the last century thanks to contributions form some of the great practitioners , gerald kein, dave elman, gil boyne, harry arrons, cal banyan (more recently). even the instant inductions from the early stage hypnotists help greatly to free up the time to even do this stuff in sessions. Its hard to say exactly where it comes from as so much is borrowed and passed along in modified form.

[Vajrahridaya]

great to hear & likewise. the resonance thing was a quantum leap for me. alot of these techniques evolved alot over the last century thanks to contributions form some of the great practitioners , gerald kein, dave elman, gil boyne, harry arrons, cal banyan (more recently). even the instant inductions from the early stage hypnotists help greatly to free up the time to even do this stuff in sessions. Its hard to say exactly where it comes from as so much is borrowed and passed along in modified form.

 

No doubt! Wisdom is timeless, only it's specifics in expression due to popular global climates change.

[Marblehead]

 

So yes, everything of ours, our past, our present, our future is experienced in the present, even if actual events took place in the past, are happening now or will take place in the future. The question I need to ask myself after that one is "but what actually happens apart from my experience then?" and I don't know the answer to that!

 

Hi Kate,

 

I watched a program on TV last night concerning memory on PBS. Very interesting stuff if you enjoy the scientific view of the concept. Much is known - much is still to be learned.

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

 

an under reaction.. in the initial event (in the past) would be like someone for whatever reason, not being allowed to express an emotion but instead stuffing away. It would still resonate into the present and be a problem yeah. maybe it would be more like an inverted waveform idk still traceable though

 

I am living proof of that one. I would even suggest that it becomes more of a problem over time because it causes additional problems as well.

 

Happy Trails!

[Birch]

Hi Marblehead,

 

Do you have an online link to the show? That would be interesting. I enjoy the activity of lining "spiritual" and "scientific" things up with each other. I guess I find myself in-between;-)

 

The other thing that absolutely makes sense to me is the idea that the body itself is the time traveler whereas the mind is inadvertently caught in the present moment (ah the irony when so many people would like to be in "The Now", well, that's where you always are;-))and through the body - the events resonate. That made lots of sense.

 

Kind of OT but still;-) check out the body forms that certain professions seem to take up collectively! I don't know that I could go as far as Reich (sp?) on that. The question I need to ask about him was whether he was working from a single cultural perspective or whether he was looking at humanity as a whole?

 

Back to topic! I find myself working with "material" that I know comes initially from other people (and I was too young to consciously choose to integrate it or not) but the bum deal is that I did integrate it anyway and so now that I have recognized it as useless for who I am now, I need to find the right approach for getting rid of it without rejecting that part of myself (because the thing is integrated;-)) and as a result risking a form of cognitive dissonance that would be even less useful.

 

While I practice the approach of bringing consistent awareness and non-action (or right action) to bear on material like this, to be honest I'm presently finding the approach kind of inefficient. It requires an awful lot of energy! It's as if (to quote an old saw;-)) "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.";-) It could also just be that my way of approaching it is inefficient, in which case I'm willing to learn other ways. Doing KAP with this in mind;-)