stop seeking bliss; it's wrong

[phore]

Oh, well, I was reading through the Tao Te Ching again, and was particularly influenced by a line, that the tao is 'without flavor', or something or another. It was particularly appealling to me, in that it seemed to help trigger a 'turning around' of 'the light'.

Also, the TTC doesn't really seem to discuss the concept of Bliss at all-- it seems a book dedicated much more to the practice of wisdom-- and in my opinion, a genuine sort of 'enlightenment'.

 

Why I wrote this, is whenever I try and cultivate bliss directly, I make things worse. Whenever I intentionally try to induce bliss, in whatever aspect, I feel as though I take a step backwards. So I thought I would share and see what you guys have to say about it.

 

In regards to how bliss may affect one's capacity to dwell in the mysterious pass-- it is far too easy to cling to it ! and then, if you are genuinely seeking enlightenment, I imagine that it is a bad thing. That it may stunt your 'growth'.

 

anyways, this is just what I am thinking. Maybe, though, bliss is actually a reasonable alternative to enlightenment? Maybe enlightenment isn't really a big deal.

i think i understand where you are coming from more now.

 

I find that the states of consciousness where you are in touch with the mystery, are also ecstatic. Its not like being happy how normal people are happy.

 

you may find that practices that induce the trance state (such as hypnosis, or certain types of cultivation) will be on your wavelength.

[findley]

Oh, you know, it is difficult to describe minkus. In fact, I don't think I am very good at it, either.

 

I believe that perhaps the best way to tap into it, is by first being quiet in your mind. And then... well... hmmm... You know, when I describe the mysterious pass, I often say things like,

 

'The center-less center' 'everywhere, and nowhere' 'everything and nothing'

 

-and that sort of nonsense. When I read about it in certain texts, I feel like they are like koans. Zen use koans to empty the mind, ('one hand clapping' or whatever...) but I feel that by intuiting the 'formless form at the centerless center' (and not by means of my intellect, but a subtle, unexplainable 'intuition',) I feel as if I somewhat understand, in some mysterious way.

 

Perhaps it may help, one of the things I want, is the capacity to sink into the 'mysterious pass', and 'switch' my sense of identity from my old, standard bodily ego, to that something else. a 'realignment' of my sense of identity, that will be otherwise only 'condensed' into my body-- and is in fact 'in' all of my surrounding environment that I can sense. --though I fear that in trying to do just this, one of the things I may be doing, is 'having the light, and failing to turn it around' ... so... bleh

 

hmmm, it's difficult to talk about-- I hope you understand what I am trying to say. And remember I really am not very good =( I think I may be in the future though, with continued practice =)

 

OK fuck you know, I was THINKING that the other day, but I don't think that is right

 

-After quieting the mind, 'contemplating' the mysterious pass in its 'nothingness and everythingness' -ness I almost intuit a void 'behind' this manifest reality and when the two are combined the prior happens

 

I don't know I feel so dumb

[hyok]

Honestly Findley, I feel like you're a transient in the desert and someone handed you a cracker, and now you think you're the richest man in the region. Perhaps you are, but your misguided-ness is revealing itself with every post. Yes, you seek to learn and seek to be enlightened but confuse yourself with stupid words like "mysterious pass" and "bliss". Hey, here are some more words for you - "doo-doo", "ca-ca", "poo-poo" "pee-pee".

 

Just words, more words and here are some more to describe something that cannot be described.

 

I suppose the futility of these discussions is what makes it such a grand ol' opra of drama queens who want to feel like sages. But in reality, we are just children in a sandbox throwing dirt at each other.

 

Children in a sandbox, that's what we are.

[findley]

The constructive criticism inherent in your message belies a good deal of wisdom, Hyok.

 

--However, I wonder if there is an implicit degree of pessimism. Is it, intentionally, part of your point to dismiss the possibility of enlightenment, (whatever that word entails?) -That my attempt to discover a higher sense of being is folly and impossible?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I am largely confused, but also the first to express the opinion that perhaps I am discovering something-- different than energetics, than SKF; unfolding the secret of the cultivation of a primordial spirit.

 

That words and concepts are confusing along the way should come as no surprise.

 

 

...maybe you're right in your pessimism... However, I'm following it through to an end.

 

 

 

I mean,

 

what the fuck do you want from me, dude?

[Vajrahridaya]

I mean,

 

what the fuck do you want from me, dude?

 

You seem to be real about what your feeling and what you see without apology. Which is nice, even if it comes across as mean.

[Magitek]

I'm with Findley in that it is better to change your mind and look a little foolish then become a blockhead. I said a lot of things on here that I'd no longer believe myself.

 

Also what is SKF?

[hyok]

Nah, no pessimism. I'm sure you'll attain whatever it is you want.

[findley]

Thanks

 

SKF = 'Sexual Kung Fu" -- mostly just jerking off and trying to bring the sexual energy up into your body-- particularly parts of the brain and 7th chakra.

I practiced it for hundreds, hundreds of hours. Cool consequences, but ultimately nothing 'real'. (that's a lot of jerking off, man. )

[Marblehead]

Thanks

 

SKF = 'Sexual Kung Fu" -- mostly just jerking off and trying to bring the sexual energy up into your body-- particularly parts of the brain and 7th chakra.

I practiced it for hundreds, hundreds of hours. Cool consequences, but ultimately nothing 'real'. (that's a lot of jerking off, man. )

 

 

Funny!

 

Be well!

[Li TaoRen]

Findley, I know I said I wouldn't reply to another of your posts, as I was foolish and took you the wrong way. But one thing is for sure, you do have a keen intellect.

[Vajrahridaya]

Thanks

 

SKF = 'Sexual Kung Fu" -- mostly just jerking off and trying to bring the sexual energy up into your body-- particularly parts of the brain and 7th chakra.

I practiced it for hundreds, hundreds of hours. Cool consequences, but ultimately nothing 'real'. (that's a lot of jerking off, man. )

 

I've done that and it really helped me actually. I became a better lover through private sexual tantra and learning how to focus on the energy and relax into areas and channel the energy, and learn some techniques both physical and mental in order to make the experience more powerful and elongated.

[phore]

findley, i understand you. i am sorry if i come off as something of a contentious know-it-all.

i have been down this road i spent many hours contemplating this. reason in the realm of the mystery will get you nowhere. you must understand it with your unconscious mind/body.

I highly recommend trance. it allows you to work with your whole being. your rational mind will never understand it fully. thats why it is called the mystery.

 

look at it this way.

movement and stillness.

from the stillness arises movement.

stillness has the potential to hold any kind of movement. stillness/void is unlimited potential. it has no flavor and potentially every flavor.

when a movement occurs then the potential doesnt disappear it is fulfilled. this is the union of bliss (energy) and emptiness (potential)

chi knows this. you let go of your rational mind (ego) and surrender to the wisdom of the universe (the union or mystery)

it is called the mystery so we can not fit it into the ego.

peace brother

[Sunya]

Don't get me wrong U. G. hasn't been a teacher or master or anything. Hes just my case study. So is Semple.

 

Anyone can say they are enlightened.

 

mmmm.... there are different stages of enlightenment. they are not fully enlightened, no. a Kundalini awakening is not enlightenment. though you get a taste.

 

check it - http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/200...experience.html

for most people, Kundalini brings them to stage 1 or 2 or maybe even stage 4 if they were good little boys or girls. UG could've been at stage 5. I haven't really read him recently.

Edited August 12, 2009 by mikaelz

[minkus]

Ow yep, i see and indeed these things are hard to describe Findley. Probably why they call it mysterious

 

Alot of these terms are from inner alchemy and try to describe a place or state in someone's mind or etheric body. I dont quit understand what you mean with turning the light but it sounds like an alchemical process transmuting/refining subtle or pure energy.

 

Most of us have experienced states or been at certain place's because of there practice but its hard to pin down a name on them and even harder to know if people are talking about the same thing.

 

Regards !

Edited August 12, 2009 by minkus

[findley]

I've done that and it really helped me actually. I became a better lover through private sexual tantra and learning how to focus on the energy and relax into areas and channel the energy, and learn some techniques both physical and mental in order to make the experience more powerful and elongated.

 

 

Eh, I never became a better lover for it. In fact, I think all the jerking may have de-sensitized my penis, making it alot harder to come during sex. HOWEVER, since I started doing it when I was 17-18, I do have a huge boner. I get comments from every woman-- and I have learned techniques that make me a unique lover, capitalizing on my size.

 

So, yeah, it didn't take me too far spiritually, but it is nice have a huge cock.

[Ryan T.]

So, yeah, it didn't take me too far spiritually, but it is nice have a huge cock.

 

I love this forum!

[Magitek]

Eh, I never became a better lover for it. In fact, I think all the jerking may have de-sensitized my penis, making it alot harder to come during sex. HOWEVER, since I started doing it when I was 17-18, I do have a huge boner. I get comments from every woman-- and I have learned techniques that make me a unique lover, capitalizing on my size.

 

So, yeah, it didn't take me too far spiritually, but it is nice have a huge cock.

 

 

When the penis balloons it goes numb and then the feeling goes internal. Isn't not coming good? Whats so good about coming? Haha, you knew if you jerked like normal people do (trying to come as quick as poss) then the penis would probably have shrinked. Thats what all the idiots I grew up with and the school education system tried to get me to do! People are so backwards, they think being an impotent sex-addict is a good thing :s

[Vajrahridaya]

Eh, I never became a better lover for it. In fact, I think all the jerking may have de-sensitized my penis, making it alot harder to come during sex. HOWEVER, since I started doing it when I was 17-18, I do have a huge boner. I get comments from every woman-- and I have learned techniques that make me a unique lover, capitalizing on my size.

 

So, yeah, it didn't take me too far spiritually, but it is nice have a huge cock.

 

Like Magitek said, my experience turned inward and I was able to have internal experiences and have orgasms without ejaculating, and even have multiple orgasms. Plus yes, my dick got a whole lot bigger!!