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  1. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Healing is the key! The reason for this thread before it got hijacked is very simple. Most people who study with Andrew Lum are able to attain metaphysical powers and Max is no exception. Andrew Lum had been very amiable whether his students wanted to claim to be trained warlocks, witches, Red Phoenix, etc. trained by Andrew Lum. So I have no doubt that Andrew Lum would tell someone who contacted him how special they are... this is what he tells everyone so Max is no exception. Fact is the only person Andrew Lum trained and trusted enough to be Si-jo is Patrick Moon. Fact! Si-jo Patrick Moon has been entrusted to be the spokesperson for Maoshan Tao as bestowed by Si-jo Andrew Lum recognized by the State of Hawaii. By this decree, many of the demonstrations that I use to give will now be done only through Si-jo Patrick Moon. This thread would not have been started if Max did not have metaphysical powers. Max studying with Andrew Lum for however brief time would be able to attain a certain degree of metaphysical energy. This is the issue directed to the few in Kunlun leadership. The fact being there are a few people in Max's Kunlun Community that had been threatened by the Kunlun leadership for innocently visiting my classes. I have welcomed them as being in the same lineage and gave them all the respect due to the lineage of Si-jo Andrew Lum. Some Kunlun visitors claimed to being spiritually attacked by some in leadership of the Kunlun-Maoshan Community. This will stop immediately! I know who you are and though you're not active on this forum, you are monitoring this thread and that is all that matters. This is only directed to the few in Kunlun leadership who are generating these spiritual attacks. This is the only reason for this post and this thread! So it is not about Red Phoenix, witches or warlocks trained in Maoshan; rather the ability of the Kunlun-Maoshan to render a Kunlun student spiritually helpless and open to spiritual attacks. I have allowed my students to freely attend Kunlun Seminars out of respect for the Andrew Lum lineage. I have the ability to stop spiritual attacks immediately so it is not for me, rather a former Kunlun student where it took me about 1 month to restore this individual back to normal. So I am well aware of the reported "bliss" for $600 and reported attacks for "free" done only by a few leaders in the Kunlun community. The rest of the Kunlun leadership is innocent. The Kunlun/Maoshan community has been cut off from Si-jo Andrew Lum due to allegedly accusing Si-jo Andrew Lum of improprieties previously mentioned. I have no problem getting this woman's name. Si-jo Patrick Moon and I are well aware of these false accusations to alienate the Kunlun-Maoshan community. It is only a few in the Kunlun Community causing all these problems and perpetuating these attacks so this is not directed at the collective Kunlun Community as a whole. Most of the Kunlun Community are innocent, kind hearted with good intentions. I will personally become involved only because this situation started because a few Kunlun members visit my class and were persecuted for no other reason than curiosity about sharing the same lineage. The same reason my students have visited the Kunlun-Maoshan community, curiosity and respect of the lineage. Because Maoshan can easily misused... --I can promise you if you are admitted into a Maoshan instructor or sifu training program; it is guaranteed that you will hate me, Si-Jo Moon or Si-jo Lum. If you are even accepted into such a program we're not looking to be your friends, we're not looking for your respect and we really don't care if you leave the program or leave our classes. Maoshan training will disrupt your very essence and if you decide to quit and join Kunlun-Maoshan, BJJ, MMA, etc., we wish all our former students the best. We do not spiritually attack our students for visiting other martial arts/meditation programs. 99% of our students will wash out and will never want to return, that's a fact! The reason why the real Maoshan Tao has so few instructors and even fewer Sifus and Si-jos. Maoshan Sifus and Si-jos don't need you! Spirit Fighting is completely different from a Bliss or average martial arts program so training is on a completely different dimension. Dat Maoshan is funny kine yeah? Eh junior boy, no wipe yo hanabaddah wit yo shirt! You go hui someweah else den
  2. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Who you '-O-'? and what relationship do you have to Lum Dai Yun lineage if any? *SERIOUSLY* What qualifications do you have if any to the Lum Dai Yun lineage? You don't have to answer the questions above: I'm only indicating that you're very disrespectful and arrogant with no sufficient qualifications and/or training background. I've had students like you before with much more qualifications than yourself with your same sarcastic cavalier attitude and washed them out of class the same day Hang loose, Brah! *RESPECTFULLY* Stay in whatever martial arts or meditation/medication discipline(s) you may, may not have or own! *PEACE*
  3. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Yes, you are correct. Andrew Lum is wearing with the yellow leis and Patrick Moon is the man in the black suit To be more respectful toward Max; however, the answer is "YES"... Max has been less than truthful to his students and to the public about being "like a son" under Andrew Lum. Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon, myself and our students have known this for quite some time . Si-Jo Andrew Lum for many years refused to go public about being a Maoshan master. Many other people like Max had studied briefly or for some time never serious about their studies in Maoshan, only later to call themselves Maoshan masters using the lineage of Andrew Lum as a marketing tool because Andrew Lum is a true Maoshan master. For many years Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself were only "Sifus" but this is what Andrew Lum wanted until the middle of this year(2009). Because there were so many fake and bogus people claiming to be Maoshan, Si-jo Andrew Lum decided that it was time to go public with Maoshan and expose the phony people claiming to be Maoshan! Meanwhile Si-jo Andrew Lum could bring back the dignity of the real Maoshan that the "bogus Maoshan" teachers could never achieve. A Maoshan charlatan like Max (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception. Please do not confuse this with the sincerity, kindness and genuineness of the Kunlun Community! I am in no way putting down the Kunlun/Maoshan community as I know them to be genuine, kind and sincere. The Kunlun/Maoshan community deserve to know the truth both individually and collectively so they can exercise their free agency to decide whether or not they want to seriously commit themselves to something that is insincere and bogus in it's true origin. Please know that within the Kunlun Community, I have only met sincere, kind individuals. They have been loyal and respectful to Max believing him to be a high level Maoshan Sifu and/or Si-jo which is completely false. Because the Maoshan Sifu and Si-jo training is so difficult, we do not pay our Sifu or Si-jo $1000 to be trained in a week so we can become a Maoshan Sifu or Maoshan Si-jo. Even being a Maoshan Instructor is very difficult that one cannot teach Maoshan without permission and only with guidance from a Maoshan Sifu or Si-jo. Max is correct that learning Maoshan can be very alluring because even with a little knowledge of Maoshan will produce "Maoshan charlatans". "Maoshan charlatans" often possess skills far above the average martial artists "Masters" who have studies for many years in their particular art and field of discipline. Even some of my students have studied under me like Max studied under Andrew Lum then proclaiming themselves to be masters in Maoshan. They conduct classes without permission creating their own mystique to lure in students. Before becoming a Maoshan Sifu, I personally asked both Patrick Moon and Andrew Lum for permission to teach before I started any classes. When one of my students had tried to teach Maoshan without permission, Si-jo Patrick Moon went into an attack mode and personally kicked out my former student from instructing, teaching or learning Maoshan. Now that the State of Hawaii officially recognizes Maoshan Tao through the lineage of Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon... we will be much more pro-active in identifying those individuals claiming to be Maoshan, but are neither qualified nor granted permission to teach Maoshan. Don't expect Maoshan schools to open in your local area like McDonalds or 7/11 as was with Chuck Norris, Ed Parker, Gracie Brothers Jujitsu, studios/schools. The training of Maoshan is so difficult most quit in under 6 months. I terminated the SSTT-Instructor Candidate program recently as my students were unable to handle the training. Maoshan Tao is not about fighting and injuring people so I'll end with this quote from Andrew Lum in the Honolulu Advertiser...
  4. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    THE REAL ANDREW LUM & PATRICK MOON I got a call from Patrick Moon so for those of you that never saw Si-jo Andrew Lum or Si-jo Patrick Moon... This picture below is for the Golden Sash ceremony for Si-jo Andrew Lum given by Si-jo Patrick Moon. The Golden Sash ceremony has been recognized by the City and State of Hawaii. The proclamation given by the Hawaii City Council and State of Hawaii by Lt. Governor Aiona for their contributions to world of the martial arts & the community of Hawaii Si-Jo Andrew Lum & Si-Jo Patrick Moon These two men are the best of the best in the world and until you've see what they can do.. you've never seen real martial arts. However; to put matters into perspective... true martial art is not about senseless violence for the sake of violence. If you get a chance to read what is given to both Si-Jo Moon and Si-Jo Lum by the city and state of Hawaii... this is all put into perspective. To put another matter into perspective, I have just gotten off the telephone with Si-Jo Patrick Moon who does know of Max Christensen --as well as many other students of Si-Jo Andrew Lum. Max Christensen was never in the Maoshan lineage nor did he received any specialized training from Andrew Lum. I really did not want to ask Patrick Moon today about Max Christensen because I already had feedback from another student of Andrew Lum. Please know that no one has any harsh feelings toward Max Christensen. This is the truth as some of Andrew Lum's students and Patrick Moon's students know about Max and his students "shaking all over the place" The Red Phoenix is not Maoshan. I'm merely trying to put this into perspective as one day some of you, including my students will meet the real Patrick Moon and Andrew Lum. You will then have the opportunity to meet the real Maoshan community and what is really practiced in the art of Maoshan Tao. There are no "hidden secret Maoshan" that Max has been teaching anyone. There are no "conspiracy theories" to harm Max or the Kunlun Community. If you can get Max to tell you the true story about his experience at the grave yard in Maui or how he tried to bring some of his early students to meet Andrew Lum... This is the *REAL* Max! For those students of Max who feel they have benefited from Max's training, bless your hearts and I wish you continued success! There are indeed many good, friendly people I have met within the Kunlun Community so please do not feel intimidated by Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or me. We, within the Maoshan community were asked not to reveal ourselves for many years... ...this being a new era --It was deemed by Andrew Lum that the shroud of secrecy be removed from the few real Maoshan and put to rest the many falsely claiming to be Maoshan. Spirit Ape, I completely agree with you!!! LMFAO!
  5. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Hi Scotty, I've seen many of your past post and your voice has always been a voice of reason We can all learn to agree to disagree agreeably, to help each other and work together toward mutual peace. Please know that our SSTT classes are so much easier than they was in previous years. My training with S-Jo Moon was so rough and brutal that washout rates were very high When Si-Jo Moon did visit the Los Angeles classes some of the L.A. students thought that they could be consoled by Si-Jo Moon voicing their complaints that some training policies were just too rough Si-Jo then went off on all the L.A. students asking, "Do you know 'Why, he(Sifu Hata) is the way he is?" This went on for hours as one woman kept crying during this whole session. Somewhere around 3a, Si-Jo Moon said, "I made him(Sifu Hata) that way so if you want to blame anyone.. blame me(Si-Jo Moon)! Si-Jo Moon makes the character "John J. Rambo" look like a choir boy. From the reaction of the students that night, we lost even more students. This art is not for everyone and at this time I will never make training as difficult as what I went through for my students! So I do agree with Maeven that any one of Andrew Lum's lineage really needs to take a reality check including SSTT! I have done everything I could to make SSTT more accessible to the public, but also know that sometime next year I am seriously thinking of removing SSTT Martial Arts as it is known today. I am making a serious reality check that something this dangerous should never be accessible to the general public! Please know that I am not in denial and we have lost many students in the past because training had been so difficult. I don't expect any of my students to try and support what I have done in the past nor what I represent today. I don't expect any of my students to stand up for me and tell everyone on this board what a "nice person" I am. If you notice no one on this board including myself is telling anyone on this board what a kind, gentle person I am. There are people reading this forum who know both me(Sifu Hata) and Si-Jo Moon and think both of us are just the meanest SOBs on the planet That is their right as we do not threaten them to change their opinions about us, because we have no problems if they want to leave our classes and join other schools, we do NOT expect them to be our cheerleaders, etc. ! We also do not threaten nor harass our students if they want to quit and/or attend another martial arts, meditation school/classes/seminars. The student aspect of SSTT is very gentle, but I have to rethink my priorities every day including the IC program. No matter how much I try to make this easier, is it still too rough for some? Please know that myself & Si-Jo Moon do make this reality check. Some days are better than others; however, there is always room for improvement. According to Si-Jo Moon.. he said that Andrew Lum makes this reality check every day and IMHO, Andrew Lum does a better job than Si-Jo and myself. All I am asking is that Max does the same reality check.. because his version of Kunlun/Maoshan is way more peaceful than Si-Jo or myself, which is why it is embraced more than SSTT. I have no illusions, people are NOT going to flock to SSTT. I have no illusions that SSTT Martial Arts should seriously consider termination by early next year! SSTT has other options to be more profitable and lucrative for 2010 that we doesn't need martial arts to be successful IMHO, the average person does not need "spirit fighting" to defend themselves against people! For this reason I respect Si-Jo Moon's wishes that all demonstrations and detailed explanations to the public be done through him. Si-Jo Moon is the most qualified person to speak and demonstrate on behalf of this Maoshan Tao. So if all possible let us end this topic which is fine with me. I have not made any remarks against anyone on this forum with this posting and ask that we can leave this topic *AS IS* without any personal attacks or threats against myself, Si-Jo Moon and Andrew Lum. Scotty is truly a man of reason and peace both now and in the past. Anyone is welcome to visit us(myself, Patrick Moon & Andrew Lum) and we welcome you in *Peace*. So if you will allow this "SOB(myself)" some rest and relaxation, everyone have a nice weekend edited for grammar & syntax
  6. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    I know it sounds funny, but one of Andrew Lum's students has a travel agency.. so I'm just making it easier if you have a group of MMA people interested. However times Andrew Lum's or Patrick Moon's name is mentioned is very little compare to Max. Most of the Kunlun Bliss people are just normal, average people leading perfectly normal lives. Because of the inner politics of Kunlun/Maoshan, everyone in my class and Max's class can now visit the source of Maoshan. Max's students can verify how great, spendid, grand, etc. etc. Max is in real everyday life. Idol worship and cult tactics is something seriously detrimental to healthy behavior. Andrew Lum is a very nice man, but I don't worship him nor idolize him. In fact this is the first thread I even discuss the attributes of Andrew. You don't need to see him as a 'Golden Dragon body'. He doesn't wear all the fancy clothes Max wears.. when I've met with Andrew Lum he very simple clothes. When you go to his class back in the days when Max started, Andrew was so low key that you wouldn't even know that he was a sifu. No one worships Andrew Lum, no one is shaking or going into convulsion, no one is following Andrew Lum around when he has his classes. Andrew Lum doesn't charge $600 per seminar nor does he charge $1000 to be a teacher or facilitator. That is why I encourage the Kunlun/Maoshan community to visit Andrew Lum to get a clear perspective of Andrew Lum. This is why I find it highly odd that no Kunlun student, Facilitator, Instructor has ever met Andrew Lum. Until recently Andrew Lum only taught Tai Chi and Tao Ga with different variations. The true Maoshan 'Spirit Fighting' for demonstration and explanation is to be done through Patrick Moon. When MMA Hawaii August 2009 went public, those of you who are curious about Maoshan have the opportunity to visit Patrick Moon.. bring all your UFC/MMA friends, etc. Many of my students are highly critical of Patrick Moon, some think he is mean, some nice, some think this or that, etc. etc. At least my students are speaking from personal experience. I am not brainwashing my students to think Patrick Moon is nice, good, bad, extreme, subdue. My senior students don't need to hear stories about Patrick Moon because they met him in person. Their opinions are their own and not brainwash propaganda. winpro07, you can only talk about how great Max is, then speak on behalf of Max, then again this could be Max, himself hiding behind this call sign. That is why there are people who love, despise, fear Max because very few are in the inner circle really know Max. My students heard many stories about Patrick Moon and many visited him.. then one day he showed up to a Tao class in L.A. posing as a student.. there is a big difference between stories about Patrick Moon and the reality of meeting Patrick Moon. winpro07 a lot of stories about Max, but who are you and what is your relationship to Max? Have you ever seen Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon in person? What are you so afraid to identify yourself, yet bold enough to speak on behalf of Max! You are very good at trying to pick on my students, but every time you weasel out of answering my questions with more praises about Max. Come visit our classes in person in Los Angeles or Patrick Moon class in Hawaii --rather hiding behind your call sign Let me know where you have your Kunlun/Maoshan practice, if Los Angeles or Hawaii, so we can experience you BLISS? You don't even have the dignify to enlighten us with your vast great, experiences Instead you rather pick on my student which is much easier. Come pick on Patrick Moon or myself then you try picking our students in person rather than hiding behind your winpro07 like a "coward" When you visit us we will verify who you are without any problems. I wouldn't make this an issue, but you have been so aggressive, disrespectful and rude toward my student.. that I am trying to extend an 'olive branch' of peace so you can experience true Maoshan Hawaiian hospitality! So what are you afraid of if you have so much BLISS and Kunlun magic? By the way Max also knows Andrew Lum's student that has the travel agency in Hawaii so contact Max for special rates so Max can shoulder some of the responsibilities for using the name 'Maoshan/Andrew Lum' legacy! The offer was only for serious inquiries; otherwise, you any online travel agency
  7. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Sloppy Zhang, pick up an issue of MMA Hawaii. Patrick Moon is the ranking Si-Jo at this time having a higher rank than Andrew Lum or myself. There are no videos, nor explanations of what this art can truly do. Buy a ticket and visit Patrick Moon, when you get to Hawaii I'll give you instructions how to meet him in class. It's been made clear that any demonstrations at this time will be given through Patrick Moon in which Maoshan has a new family, Sung Ho Tao. Because Patrick Moon's classes are free and at this time he is the top ranking master(Si-Jo), ask him personally for a demonstration I do mean this respectfully . Now that Patrick Moon's Sung Ho Tao of Maoshan has gone public -see for yourself and don't take my word for it. There are many who have taken Si-Jo Moons challenge and no one has lasted more than a few seconds. So I am not asking you to take my word nor anyone elses word. Because of the danger of this art, it has not been available to the mass public. Patrick Moon is skilled enough to stop 1-8 people at one time without injuring you and without breaking a sweat. It's worth the trip to Hawaii because there may be a time when this art may not be available to the mass public. Patrick Moon has called me personally that these demonstrations and detailed explanation from those outside the community be done by only by Si-Jo Moon. In this way there is no chance of misunderstandings and doubts similar to what has happened in the Kunlun Community. If you also want to meet Andrew Lum during your stay, Patrick Moon will make the arrangements. Join our forum below if you are serious and I will assist you regarding this matter of meeting with Patrick Moon for personal demonstration Maoshan(Sung Ho Tao) in his class. You are not the first who have doubts outside our community and I'm sure you won't be the last. PM me on your 'Username' on the SSTT forum after you have joined and be prepared to buy a ticket destination to Honolulu, Hi. This goes for anyone else interested. If there are a group of you(50 or more) who are sincerely interested, Patrick Moon will be able to get you discount rates through a travel agent who is also within our community. Discount rates on hotel and airfare if (50 or more) are interested and you coordinate to travel to come all together. I'm sure more than yourself has doubts where you live and Hawaii is a beautiful vacation spot all year round. You should be able to find at least 50 MMA interested friends to join you for a discount trip to Hawaii Regarding the 'Golden Dragon Body', there are also many throughout the world claiming to be Jesus Christ while others claim to be the Messiah. Some have drunk poison Kool Aid or worn Nike shoes eating poison pudding to reach their UFO destinations. Below are links to assist those needing help from breaking loose from this type of Cult Leadership mentality blind sheep following the blind mentality.
  8. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    winpro07,, I don't have access to the Kunlunforum so I have no idea what is being said or not said. I have still asked you to identify yourself; since, obviously you know who I am.. however, you are still hiding as winpro07. I have offered to introduce you personally to Patrick Moon and visit my classes where all this can be cleared up in person This is what I am trying to do at this time. Max encourages his students to see Sifu Jenny; however, why are Kunlun students not able to meet with Andrew Lum? The reason Max does not want to be called Sifu is because neither Andrew Lum nor Patrick Moon recognize Max as a sifu. In this way Max is just being honest, so I do not doubt his integrity regarding this matter. I completely agree that this drama is ridiculous! As much as you are defending Max. All of you are welcome to visit my class so I can see and hear you in person. Second, I am coming to the defense of my dear friends Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Some of you may not know what I'm talking about and some of you do. Stop making accusations toward Andrew Lum and some woman having an affair.. and somehow this relationship is the reason Max and Andrew Lum had a falling out! I know Andrew Lum personally and he doesn't deserve this $hit! Some of you posting to this forum know exactly what I am talking about which is why I am offering an open invitation to you so you can visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person. I am also offering an open invitation to Max to meet with Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon so we can clear all these alleged derogatory comments in front of Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon! If you read my post carefully, I have said that there is a fine line between mental illness and spiritual attacks. I have only asked that the Kunlun community be more sensitive to your community members. So this does not apply to those of you who are not mentally ill nor under spiritual attack. Let's clear this up once and for all! Max, you and I go visit with both Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person! Since, Max lives in Hawaii.. it is easy to visit Andrew Lum; however, I will fly out to Hawaii to meet Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Any Kunlun members who want to join us(Max & myself) are more then welcome to come with Max to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. I asked that these matters be handled discreetly in-house peacefully in the Kunlun community; however, this does not seem to be the case. Kunlun members will know first hand what exactly is the reason of Max had a falling out with Andrew Lum. This time the *TRUTH*! Another interesting question? How many Kunlun people actually know Andrew Lum in person and if you met Andrew Lum, would he know you on a first name basis? This way when we meet with Andrew Lum, you will know exactly what we are talking about. All Kunlun members invited! Just as you are trying to defend Max, I am defending Andrew Lum from these ludicrous rumors and heresay. So we can all settle this peacefully and amiably. There are thousands in the Kunlun community so I am sure none of you are threatened if only Patrick Moon and myself are present during this inquiry.
  9. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Winpro07, Maeven is one of my students. That is the association between Maeven and Sifu Hata. I notice you are starting to pick on Maeven? What is it that you want or need to know? If I may ask, who are you to speak on behalf of Max? Can't Max type his own post to the forum rather then relaying messages through you? If you live in Los Angeles, I can arrange a meeting so you can meet both myself and Patrick Moon. You can then ask Patrick Moon yourself what is my relationship and Max relationship in connection with Patrick Moon, Andrew Lum and Maoshan. Patrick Moon is really busy now so I could only arrange a 10-15min meeting. He will be returning to Hawaii shortly. It is my belief that you/winpro07 are also at least a Kunlun Facilitator or a Kunlun Instructor. At least I give you this respect which is more than you are giving my student Maeven. Brah, Who you? No gimme hard time where you live? If you live in L.A. you're welcome to attend my classes. Just sign up on the meetup below If you live in Hawaii, Patrick Moon will be more than happy to explain the relationship between Max and myself in relationship to Maoshan and Andrew Lum. --and I'm still polite as I am not making any demands other than you identify yourself before I make the introductions The Kunlun Facilitator/Instructor is below, just let me know! Vortex Just as it is difficult to understand how Kunlun manipulates energy for "Bliss" with the use of "cooperative energy". Maoshan works on manipulation of energy for "Pain" and using "Non-Coopertive" energy. The shaking that you see on Kunlun is cooperative energy. If you see my class or Patrick Moon's class, we have learned that "Mr. Pain" and non-cooperative energy is our best friend. You see someone shaking in Patrick Moon's class or my class, they are in pain. Please note that this is not trying to intimidate any members of this forum from visiting SSTT or Patrick Moon's class. Andrew Lum's classes are run much differently as "spirit fighting" is not what he teaches to his student. Patrick Moon teaches some of Andrew Lum's classes just so the students will see the Maoshan spirit fighting techniques. "Mr. Pain" and "uncooperative energy" is very difficult to explain in metaphysical terms especially in words; however, you are more than welcome to visit our classes. Our classes are very friendly only because we cannot be afford to be unfriendly. This art is far too dangerous so we do treat this art with respect as we do all our students.
  10. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    If you come to class we do go more into details and history. The end game was always about 'Spirit Fighting'. It has never been about easy enlightenment or instant bliss. Maoshan is about hard work and a lot of suffering in the physical and metaphysical to attain enlightenment. This also includes many years of focused, dedicated practice. Because of the confusion of the Kunlun/Maoshan branding many Kunlun students thought they were learning the pure Maoshan. Again this can be easily verified through Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Fighting evil spirits, curses, black magic or whatever term you feel most comfortable. Once proficient it gives the person the ability to send the spirit(s) or curse back to the person or entity with devastating effects. I do have it written above in length why this art is not to be abused to hurt others. I have since edited my spelling and syntax so when you re-read the post it will make more sense. Max has someone else writing his post for him. I do not have the luxury of letting anyone write or post for me. There have been discrepancies that Chris is the mastermind of Kunlun while Max only gives the classes and seminars so they have the ability for plausible deniability where no one person will take responsibility if there are discrepancies. Because I have to answer directly to Patrick Moon and Andrew Lum, I don't give answers about not wanting to communicate with them. I encourage my students to visit both Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon when visiting Hawaii. For any of the students who want to visit Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon, you will not be subjected to any training that is extremely difficult. You will be treated as a guest, so there is no fear if you want to visit classes given by Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon. The main problem is that for some people it became to easy to use limited knowledge of this art to harm other people even if they do not have any intention of hurting others. For this reason I had posted a courtesy alert to Max and the Kunlun/Maoshan community that there are people in his community who are suffering with no place to go. This also was also a wake up call that Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon will be made aware of any major improprieties of people trying to label their martial arts teaching as "Maoshan" without authorization. If people have a question about what is or is not authentic, you can now compare notes directly with Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself. The end game is also about helping and empowering people! It is not about training followers that need to be led. If people are not being empowered then there is a support group and a way of validating what you learn as being authentic from the *SOURCE*! My students have always been free to visit any martial arts class. Some of my students have already met Patrick Moon and/or Andrew Lum. Max may not have been aware that some people in his group were so frightened of him. Now that he is aware, he has the ability to be more sensitive toward the needs of his students. My classes are different and trains individuals to be mentally and spiritually very tough and disciplined. This type of training may not be for everyone, so my students are free to visit and join Kunlun or any other disciplines that they feel is more suitable for them. I don't know where the Kunlun community was getting the idea that Max is doing mind control, but this has to stop! If Max tries to comfort his community and his students still are unable to break out of this mentality, then I have offered my assistance regarding this matter. For the ancient history version, "In the beginnning.."; come visit our classes as we go indepth into this tradition. The SSTT website was offline, but it is now fully operational
  11. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Thank you, Biff for the comments above. Don't get me wrong, I am very fond of the Kunlun people as members of Kunlun have visited SSTT and SSTT has been invited to Kunlun activities. I even have Kunlun instructors and students posted to my website and MEETUPs. I did get your 'PM' and was about to go to sleep. Your 'PM' was very respectful so I was going to answer it this morning; however, since your post is public.. I am posting publicly. Yes, I have teamed up with Kunlun people because they are nice, polite people I have nothing against the Kunlun Community because everyone I have met in Kunlun have been friendly, polite and courteous. What has alarmed me is the CULT MENTALITY in which many of the Kunlun students have been unable to freely interact with others of their lineage. The fear exhibited whenever they question Max or want a second opinion who personally knows Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon. My students are free to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. My students can also freely associate with any of Andrew Lum's students and Patrick Moon's students. My students are also free to visit Max and attend Kunlun classes and seminars. I have been made fully aware that Kunlun people are not suppose to visit Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself. On one hand Max openly praises Andrew Lum in his seminars, then on the other hand Max or some of his members will insult and humiliate Andrew Lum to the point there are no Kunlun students who dare visit anyone in the lineage of Lum Dai Yun, which includes Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself. This is a strange contradiction. If this contradiction is a product of Max's students getting out of line, Max can straighten this out. If this is a contradiction of Max, again Max can straighten this out! So my question is this "strange story" disrespecting Andrew Lum passed along among Kunlun students based on what Max says.. to disrespect Andrew Lum or are Max's students disrespecting Andrew Lum because they want to make up some "off the wall story" so that Max's true history with Andrew Lum may be questioned. Any and all Kunlun students are more than welcome to share the story used to humiliate Andrew Lum in private while Max praises Andrew Lum in public. Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon and myself would like to know how this story was started and why it is used as a tactic to keep Kunlun members in check. However this story that the Kunlun members make for disrespecting Andrew Lum may be completely unfounded and Max has no idea that his students are insulting Andrew Lum behind closed doors. If this is true then Max is more than welcome to read this thread to correct insults being made toward Andrew Lum. Andrew Lum and myself are very passive as we handle unruly students in our own way. We can take being insulted by our students verbally in public and in private. Patrick Moon can also handle insults public and private, but Patrick Moon is very pro-active. If students of Andrew Lum or my students are desrespectful, there are no secrets in our classes how disrespectful, ill mannered students are treated! It is built into our lineage and discipline so that our numbers remain small and the power of this art is not abused. As of last month the lineage of Lum Tai Yun was given permission to go public. You can read the details in the August 2009 issue of MMA Hawaii. In this way, the lineage is still taught to those seeking to learn this style. This also puts "checks and balances" of those who would abuse their students in our lineage. My students have gone to Hawaii and can freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Patrick Moon has come to visit myself and my students on many occassions.. Patrick Moon has also "cleaned my house" of disrespectful students and those who remain are respectfully set straight about our lineage. There is no mystery about myself or Patrick Moon to those in our classes and our relationship to Andrew Lum If some of Max's students are running scared because they have been ill treated or abused, then it may be time for Max to "clean house". Our lineage does take offense if anyone is purposely spreading falsehood against Max only because they don't like Max. In this way we mean no disrespect toward Max. However, if Max is using cult tactics to keep his Kunlun students in check then this must be stopped. I have an open invitation to all Kunlun students, facilitators and instructors on how they can honorable visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If cult tactics are being used in the Kunlun Community, myself, Patrick Moon or Andrew Lum can assist to sever the connection imposed by any Kunlun instructor, facilitator, or student. Max knows better then to employ these tactics if he studied with Andrew Lum for 25+ years, if something has genuinely gone wrong to hurt some people in the Kunlun community, then this is something that can easily be corrected. As Maeven stated there is a certain protocol to visit these Masters(Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon). The classes being given by Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon are done by referral, so calling them up is just rude. If Max is so close to Andrew Lum then he knows the proper protocol and his students should be able to freely visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. If some members of the Kunlun community are still intimidated and do not know proper protocol, I have no problems assisting them. Everytime I visit Andrew Lum, he inquires politely how my classes are coming along. Our numbers are small, but students do get a lot of personal attention at this time. For many years our lineage has been private and to some extent it was not open to the general public. Presently Patrick Moon has been authorized by Andrew Lum to chronicle our lineage as he(Patrick Moon) & Andrew have studied, practiced and work together for nearly 50 years I am also aware that the Kunlun community has been going through psychic experiences that are not always pleasant. It can result in headaches and spirit visitations. No one including myself is blaming Max directly as his classes grew so quickly through his "Bliss" method. Because Max's students who are now facilitators and instructors were never taught how to close this connection, SSTT has been the only alternative to empowering people to control the effects of the "Red Phoenix" and other Kunlun practices. Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon will also know how to shut down the effects of the Red Phoenix and sever any and all connections that have been a disturbing side effects of practicing Kunlun/Maoshan with Max. Again if Max is unable or unwilling to sever or assist in alleviating the disturbing side effects, Max knows the proper protocol on how his students, facilitators and instructors can contact Andrew Lum. If Max is unwilling to assist in this area, then you can contact me through my website and I will help make arrangements with proper protocol. vortex, I don't have the MMA Hawaii August issue. I know what is in the article. At this time MMA Hawaii is not publicly putting this on their website as it would make 'mixed martial arts' as we know it, completely obsolete. Mixed martial arts is a $billion$ dollar business so much of what we take for granted on this Tao Bums forum would be considered bad business for those who have invested so much money towards MMA in Hawaii. The article in "MMA Hawaii" was published out of respect for Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon regarding their contribution and guidance to the martial arts community through the Lum Dai Yun lineage
  12. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    With respect to "Old Tradition", this is totally out of line to approach these masters. If Maharasa wants to respectfully contact these masters.. follow tradition! Anyone can get anyone's address and phone number by Internet. You can get movie stars protected addresses and unlisted phone numbers, but you won't get anywhere except a TRO(temporary restraining order). There are respectful ways in which to meet these masters.. and trying to get their information off the Internet is a shameful way to approach these men. Sadly, It goes to show how much martial art traditions had deteriorated and the state of martial arts is in decay. The traditional old school approach would have earned Maharasa respect. Invading their privacy will only get him in trouble as just another wannabee enthusiast. With all due respect, just posting people's phone numbers, addresses, social security numbers, etc. etc. is a sign of disrespect to Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon especially since you don't know them. Before I give out phone numbers of friends, I respectfully asked their permission. I don't post it to an Internet forum. It is disrespective, rude and an invasion of privacy. If you want to meet Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in this disrespectful manner, you will be treated with the same disrespect... any chance of learning anything from these great masters will be lost. The reason 99+% of the martial artist have no idea what they are doing. There is a process to learning from these great masters and cavalier treatment reduced to trivia guarantees that the world will never learn true martial arts. MMA Hawaii Aug 2009 is a magazine to describe what is true martial arts in it's ultimate form. The rest of the articles are purely a waste of time to anyone serious about martial arts. One of the reasons Max has achieved the greatness he has is because he respects tradition! For this reason I have to give Max credit that he is better than 98+% of the martial artist on this forum. Max is in a learning mode. Even though I don't agree 100% with Max, we completely agree that these great masters be approached with respect and one must follow protocol. I overestimated the caliber of martial artist on this forum If you can learn anything from this forum, learn to respect the great masters. Otherwise; the door to learning 'true martial arts' will be closed forever and you'll be stuck doing 'mixed martial arts' for the rest of your life
  13. Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

    Who wants to know? You are talking about 2 masters that can completely uproot the Kunlun Community. 50% of the post on this entire forum has promoted Max to hero status. Do you really want to destroy Max this badly? Because this is what will happen if either Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon ever knew what Max really does, what Max claims he knows and how he treats his students! Pick up a copy of the magazine "MMA Hawaii" August 2009 Issue for more information. Then decide if this is something you seriously really want to pursue Fact being you do NOT contact masters like Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon by contact info/email. You meet with them face to face, man-to-man! If you do not have the courage to do so then I highly suggest you do not have any contact with them at all. When you talk about Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon, you are talking about men of honor, the best of the best in the world of martial arts! Max has no powers over Andrew Lum, Patrick Moon or myself --as he/Max has over his own students, facilitators and instructors. So before I answer your question, my question is do you really want to meet these men face-to-face? If not, please leave this thread alone and I will pretend that you never asked your question. You will also be doing Max and his following a big favor This is a friendly post as I personally do not know you So I am curious why you want to know? ...only because of the ramifications it would have on the pro-Kunlun members of this forum. However it is obvious that the pro-Kunlun students, facilitators and instructors have never met Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon; so probably it will only enlighten them on what they have or have not learned. "You want the *TRUTH*...?", respectfully quoted from the movie 'A Few Good Men'.