sean

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Posts posted by sean

  1. Posted

    6 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

    I'm not a US citizen, how do I know if I'm leftist enough according to this new rule?

     

    Curious, where are you from if you don't mind sharing?

     

    In any case, like I've said, you don't have to be left at all, but if you find yourself wanting to defend or engage in any of the following, you're probably too far-right:

    • Racism
    • Sexism

    • Ableism

    • Misogyny
    • Homophobia
    • Transphobia
    • Fascism (e.g. Neo-Nazism, white-nationalism, ultranationalism, etc)
    • Rape and sexual assault apologia
    • Police brutality apologia
    • Xenophobia, anti-immigrant rhetoric
    • Climate change denial

    Sean

     

    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    1 hour ago, dawei said:

    Of course that is your meaning but you using a very sexually crude way to say that.  And the innuendo suggest getting screw is bad.  Put the two together and you should understand my point.   Using a sexually graphic way of making this point used border on being against the rules:

     

    I appreciate the concern here and am aware of the problematic history of stuff like this. 🙏 Not to defend the crudeness, but for what it's worth, the way I read this was as a metaphor for innocent people being violated against their will. The target of the metaphor was also not another member, but a government seen as corrupt. Whatever ways you enjoy sex, no one wants to be assaulted so I didn't read it as a putdown of consensual anal sex. Just my two cents.

     

    @MildMouse23 Please chill with the personal attacks, @cheya is 💯% right, it's very possible this board would no longer even exist were it not for @dawei in my near complete absence.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 6
    • Thanks 1

  5. Posted

    12 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

    Racism. Actually the first example of true racism in this thread. 

    And who did it. 

     

    I am now forced to picture you wearing a diaper at all times.

     

    Racism, in the way that materially matters, is not some structurally advantaged white guy in a country that can strangle and shoot black men on actual camera with inpunity, getting his feelings hurt by having this reality pointed out to him on the internet, you inconceivable dipshit.

     

    Also, didn't I ask you to leave?

     

    Sean

     

    • Thanks 3

  6. Posted

    11 hours ago, Jeff said:

    Pretty much all spiritual traditions ask you to move beyond such views that you are implying of good and bad.  

     

    Huh? Nah.

     

    Quote

    But, you did not respond to the point of my post, additionally you only copied a small part of my post to create a misleading view (seemly imply that I am somehow racist) of my point/position.

     

    Man, it whooshed on you too, huh. I'm going to resist my German impulse to explain a joke but FWIW I was not implying you're racist at all.

     

    Quote

    Why not simply stop the political stuff and move the focus back to spiritual discussions (without a voting litmus test).  Each post (if somehow racist) can be dealt with through moderation.

     

    The answer is in my original post. Because I believe spirituality divorced from "just politics" is a dead-end. And because I founded this forum and want to facilitate conversations I feel are nourishing and inclusive to people at every level of society, not just privileged, oblivious white dudes who are unphased by bigotry only because it doesn't materially impact their own lives.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 2

  8. Posted

    16 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

    It's a fallacy to say right wingers are racist and left wingers arn't. 

    Keep taking the racist bait.

     

    Whooosh. Right over your head my dude.

     

    Re: the narrative I’m being “fed” (from where I wonder? Studying original source philosophy and history?) — not to worry, if this site gets overrun by your imaginary faction of leftist but also racist, misogynistic, homophobes with crypto-antisemitic conspiracy theories, I’ll apply the same rules. And I’m sure you’re totally worried and not concern trolling.

     

    Sean

     

     

    • Like 2

  10. Posted

    Somehow it's easy to forget that it's socialists that fight for socialized healthcare. Also socialists that fought for dozens of basic rights we easily take for granted in the U.S., e.g. elimination of sweat shops, child-labor laws, 8-hour workdays, etc, etc. These advances were not magically bestowed on the working class by benevolent capitalists one sunny day they felt chipper. They were fought for relentlessly at all levels, including the streets, and at great personal sacrifice.

     

    It's capitalists (which in the U.S. are now represented ubiquitously by both Republicans and Democrats) that oppose tooth and nail nearly every non-profitable, socialized service and safety net that, sure, might incommensurably reduce human suffering and senseless death but also * cough * might mildly put a dent in some bottom lines, good sir.

     

    BTW — this is not some naive, anti-business owner screed. We live in a capitalist society and have to do our best to survive. If you own a business I'm not pissing on that. I'm just asking us not to close off our imaginations to what might be possible. I own my home and land but I'm not attached to some weird, cosmic, fetishism of individual private property ownership for all eternity.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 8

  11. Posted

    50 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

    Regarding Chaos Magick, if you do two searches:
     

    Chaos Magick and alt-right and Chaos Magick and the political left

     

    You'll find enough connections between Chaos Magic and right wing politics, in particular his anointing as an avatar of Kek, the Egyptian Frog god of "chaos", Kek:

     

    Trump and Kek

     

    to make your stomach queasy and hopefully dampen your enthusiasm for what what is both philosophically and in terms of technical procedure a very limited and incoherent system of magic.

     

    Oh for sure, 100%, I'm aware of this connection. Thanks for mentioning this. A few thoughts.

     

    One, I do think there's some lefties in the Chaos space and that this Kek shit is a relatively recent, reactionary current.

     

    Two, I think that conceding entire spaces (whether that be philosophical, aesthetic, magical, physical) to problematic members is something leftists have fucked up on quite a bit historically. "Oh, the bourgeoisie are often religious. Let's try to throw out religion."

     

    Last, I'm definitely not trying to become or identify as a "Chaos Magician". Just exploring the landscapes. I do feel a certain power lurking within Chaos syncretism that seems lacking in typical New Age hodge podge. Maybe this is even because it's incoherent, in the sense that it's not trying to create an orderly tradition from components, more like consciously borrowing broadly for utility.

     

    In any case, I'm currently much more drawn to various animistic, folk magic traditions. 👻

     

    50 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

    And it is this cosmological model which raises "folk magic" from a collection of the proverbial "old wive's tales" into part of a rational model of magical action and practice.

     

    As far as the religious aspects of "Wicca" goes, I have no real interest in any pagan pantheon except the Ritual Daoist pantheon because it was designed by fangshi for fangshi and such ideas and practices became the basis of Ritual Daoism and its application to internal cultivation.  Here is a short discussion of my background in Ritual Daoism from my PPD, my apology to non Dao Bums who cannot follow the link to a members only part of Dao Bums:

     

    Interesting, thank you for the links. I love the idea of incorporating Daoist pantheon into my practice, that would feel very full circle.

     

    Funny enough, I sense part of my present attraction to folk magic is actually this less rational, less formally lineaged, "granny magic" aspect. Kitchen and farm magic so integrated into the workday as to often go unnoticed; then only passed down by fragments of memory and literal cookbooks with handwritten notes in the margins.

     

    I'm just a baby witch though, so don't take my reveries too seriously. 😆

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 1

  12. Posted

    1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

    And does "right wing" mean the exact same thing in every country and area seeing this forum?

     

    Are people now being ask to take up a specific political stance drawn from American Politics situations in order to discuss Taoism here?

     

    FWIW, the terms right and left-wing have a long history and are not based on U.S. politics but I appreciate your questions.

     

    Quote

    Is it still okay to "just" or "merely" discuss Taoism here?

     

    💯!

     

    Quote

    Or must we discuss Taoism from, for example, a Maoist or Leninist dialectic or political bias?

     

    Or should the discussion of Taoism merely be anti "Trump"?

     

    Neither!

     

    While I identify as leftist and can't see a fundamental separation between political vs. spiritual maps, I'm absolutely not trying to funnel discussions here through an overtly political lens. This is larger than leftism or simply being opposed to a single, terrible U.S president.

     

    While in my experience the reactionary right emphatically take the cake on antisocial rhetoric and hate-speech, I'm curating self-evident "nopes" applicable regardless of your politics.

     

    A non-exhaustive list of "nopes", both in the specific and as a pattern, in no special order:

    • Racism
    • Sexism

    • Ableism

    • Misogyny
    • Homophobia
    • Transphobia
    • Fascism (e.g. Neo-Nazism, white-nationalism, ultranationalism, etc)
    • Rape and sexual assault apologia
    • Police brutality apologia
    • Xenophobia, anti-immigrant rhetoric
    • Climate change denial

    If you have suggestions for additions or changes, I'm all ears.  🙏

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 8
    • Thanks 1

  13. Posted

    1 hour ago, manitou said:

    I remember how much I enjoyed the forum before it broke up into so many smaller specialized sections.  Part of the problem might be of fermentation; folks sticking with the same topic category and not exposing themselves to other viewpoints.  When folks are talking to each other under the same umbrella, day after day, maybe things get a little rank.

    Funny you should mention that. I'm wanting to propose a rather significant consolidation and simplification of the forums soon.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 6
    • Thanks 2

  14. Posted

    2 hours ago, Jeff said:

    There are endless number of sites to vote pro or con trump, but very few for free and open spiritual discussion.  Now it seems that one more such site has been dropped from the world, leaving us with nothing but more increasing political polarity. Spiritual traditions are about moving beyond such dualistic views into greater clarity or oneness. Telling half the world to pack up and leave does not make the world a better place, it simple increases the framework of hostility and war.

     

    A: It's OK and very fun to say and do racist things.

    B: It's not OK and in fact wrong to speak and behave racistly.

     

    There. I've created a "duality" for us. But what spiritual tradition asks us to "move beyond such dualistic views"?

     

    Also, not to nitpick, but Trump supporters are not "half the world". Trump was the third most popular choice after not voting at all (42% of the U.S.), and voting for Hillary Clinton (nearly 3 million more votes than Trump).

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 7

  15. Posted

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    My man, China's "communist party" is about as communist as the PRC is the People's Republic.

    ...
    My point is, whatever the direction the PRC is pointed it, it ain't leftwards, despite the propagandists' continued usage of words like "communism" and "socialism."

     

    It's exhausting trying to deconstruct these narratives.

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    I have discovered that these kids do not know the word "alienation." With thousands of hours of forced "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist" indoctrination under their belts, they have never even heard of the concept.

     

    Absolutely fascinating! Thank you for sharing this. What a striking concept to have missing.

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    That said, I don't see much from the history of the last two centuries that leads me to believe that what the world needs will be found by emulating any of the grand communist experiments I know of. Somehow or other and in spite of my earlier prejudices I ended up more or less in the anarchist camp myself. I see it as especially compatible with a true spiritual path, perhaps so much so that the two may in some ways need one another, but I don't have the time or the wherewithall to try and make that point now. 

     

    Well said, I really resonate with this. Lately, I loosely identify as something like "anarcho-socialist" because, for me, I find the two form a more complete picture together than separate. I also feel like "why" might take a book-length wall of text to unpack.

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    Took me a long time to wrap my mind around anarchism even with one in my family, even with the man James C. Scott (sorry about the name drop, but, 'chuknow...) himself giving me a copy of Anarchism in Action on some, "mix this into your Daoist soup, kid" shit. Anarchism is too often portrayed as just a big "anti" full of young kids who don't shower and like breaking shit, and therefore as an unsophisticated, shallow utopian fantasy for hypocritical malcontents. That my brother for a long time was militantly averse to underarm deodorant and serially heisted shopping carts full of bourgie groceries from Whole Foods, and failed to ever eloquently explain to me what the fuck he believed in (not that I was a particularly respectful listener back then, either) generally left me with the impression that anarchism is just some sort of love for chaos and liberated organic avocados. My bro grew up, though, and I read Anarchism in Action, and one thing led to another and I guess the philosophy really did end up mixed into my Daoist soup after all.

     

    Great story, thank you for sharing.

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    Anyway, everything I know of it makes me pretty sure it only makes sense to place anarchism very firmly on the leftern "side," though I too agree that there is little value in boiling everything down to L v. R. You hand me the platform of a pre-"Southern Strategy" Republican and I'd probably find a good number of things I like on it. 

     

    Yep! I've lived in deep south Mississippi, where I met my wife in fact. I've conversed with anti-racist, pro-union, effectively left-anarchist grandfathers, though they would never identify as such.

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    Like, um, here: Dear 21st century conspiradudes: We've been knowing that you can't trust everything the NYTimes tells you... So... Your point? Corporate media should be taken with a grain of salt? There are nefarious forces that wish to keep the man down? I dig. But this is news? Huh? To who, exactly? And the antidote to this revelation lies in "research" conducted via the YouTube algorithm, which, um, despite being a product of one of the wealthiest and most powerful corporations on earth, is somehow an undiluted source of accuracy and truth? Wuhhuhuhuhhhuhh?

     

    😆

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

    What the fuck planet do you all live on and how is it that there are evidently 45 hours in your day? I can barely find time to get the trash out on time for the truck and make it to the grocery store around the way with discounted pineapples before closing time, much less read these excessively long Intercept articles and finish painting my oil portrait of AOC on a 3 meter tall canvas. Fuck if I'ma spend my precious downtime listening to mp3s of late nite AM radio, much as I do love aliens and shadow people. 

     

    😂

     

    4 hours ago, Walker said:

     I'm dyed enough in the wool to have Crimethinc in my browser history and to sneak out at night to put up pro-HK graffiti (香港加油!!!).

     

    ✊

     

    Sean

     

     

  18. Posted

    5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

    It's been an endurance test to remain active here at the bums since the avalanche of unveiled rightism, xenophobia and misogony that came with the 2016 reveal of the current american landscape.  I was gob-smacked at the unveiling of the depth and breadth of vitriol, misogony, xenophobia, anti-lgbtq, anti-social/welfare net support here.  It prompted several sabbaticals.  Spotless put it perfectly... sean, your return is like a bongful of fresh air.

     

    ✊

     

    Quote

     

    And speaking of fresh air...  After adding my voice to this revelatory thread, I'm off to Black Mountain with my son for retreat in the woods.

     

     

    Very nice, Black Mountain is gorgeous. I live in Asheville, hit me up if you ever want to get a beer or tea sometime.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 1

  20. Posted

    👋 Howdy y'all.

     

    I wanted to tell you that I've decided to:

    • Revoke all existing moderators.
    • Ask all committed right-wing members of the forum to leave.

    I realize this may seem extreme and come as a shock to many. I'll do my best to explain where I'm coming from, what this means for the forum moving forward and I'll also request help.

     

    ZfvyjZW.png

     

    > WTF?

     

    Pas de replâtrage, la structure est pourrie.

    No replastering, the structure is rotten.

     

    I made a fundamental mistake in the foundational ethos for this forum: believing that "no insults, be nice" is a powerful enough core virtue to sustain a diverse, healthy community.

     

    The problem with "just be nice" is that it's impotent in the face of organized malice.

     

    In a society where marginalized people often suffer invisibly, taking a clear, assertive stance against the creeping normalization of bigotry and even outright fascism whenever possible is far more important than being "nice" merely to avoid rattling an oppressive status quo.

     

    I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."

    — Martin Luther King, Jr.

     

    > This is about Trump, isn't it?

     

    Donald Trump is a menacing buffoon but also mostly a disgusting symptom of a very sick society.

     

    He's also a kind of litmus test for how deranged I find someone's morality. Being anti-Trump is not "partisan" (if being nonpartisan is even possible or noble). One of the lowest ethical bars I can imagine is finding Trump repugnant.

     

    I'm not even going to waste time enumerating Trump's voluminous flaws and demonic policy positions. If you're pro-Trump you almost certainly already know and don't care.

     

    This isn't a debate. We have deeply incompatible values, and I'm drawing a line in the sand.

     

    > What should pro-Trump and other far-right members of the forum do now?

     

    You should leave.

     

    If you're pro-Trump, I'm asking you to leave this forum. You're not welcome here anymore.

     

    If you're right-wing, please leave.

     

    We might need a bullet list. Here we go:

    • If you're pro-Trump, please leave.
    • If you're right-wing, please leave.
    • If you're pro-border wall, pro-ICE, racist, homophobic, transphobic or misogynist, please fuck off and leave.

    The web is awash with other far-right friendly dumpsters you can crawl into.

     

    If you think it's unacceptable that I'm booting members with dangerous, disgusting, antisocial politics, you should probably leave too.

     

    (Sidenote: If you're some strange brew of anti-fascist, social anarchist, left-libertarian, or anti-authoritarian, democratic Marxist, socialist or communist infidel, please stay and help me raise hell! ✊ Are there any other leftists here? 👀)

     

    > This is an outrage!! ** shits entire diaper ** You're the real fascist, watch this 4-hour Youtube video, something something ...

     

    I'm unfortunately acutely aware that if you're being asked to leave that you're not going to understand this decision.

     

    I trust that you're going to settle on a self-serving narrative in which I'm a cartoon, totalitarian-communist, "cultural Marxist" suppressor of your patriotic free speech. I'm a hysterical, intolerant "snowflake" that can't stand proximity to your brilliant, hard-truths, lest I be destroyed by sheer "facts and logic".

     

    I don't care. I've made peace with your ignorance.

     

    Allow me to repeat for those in the back: This isn't a debate. We have deeply incompatible values. So much so that I'm asking you to leave my forum without further discussion.

     

    > Did the moderators do anything wrong?

     

    I sincerely appreciate the time and energy the previous team put into tending to the forum. If they made mistakes in terms of moderating, I'd hedge they were mostly a result of inheriting the laissez-faire, lazy-white-guy ethos that I unfortunately fostered and encouraged.

     

    If you were a part of the previous team and are not being asked to leave and you still want to help out, please PM me.

     

    > But this is a spiritual forum!

     

    Spirituality without material roots is a dead tree, my friend.

     

    The notion that spiritual cultivation, of all things, should somehow be categorically divorced from moral maturation and praxis is a "bad take".

     

    This forum has always strived to be a big tent for all manner of weirdos from diverse spiritual and sociopolitical backgrounds.

     

    But there have also been times when new boundaries needed to be set. This is one of them.

     

    > But what about the terrible things that Obama, Hillary, etc. have done?

     

    As I said, I'm not going to debate, and this isn't a political 101 education forum.

     

    For what it's worth, here are some of my recent thoughts on the center-right led Democratic party and the rise of Trumpism:

    If the grotesque insincerity of center-right Democrats (e.g. Clinton and Obama) are the reason that anyone reading this has hitched to the neoreactionary Trump dump-truck, please find a local shaman to unbind this rotten hex. There's a better and much more magical way forward. ✨

     

    > I'm not right or left, I'm a truth-seeker, you're being unreasonable.

     

    I've found that people who claim they're "neither right nor left," especially U.S. citizens, are usually center-right at best. (And often worse, e.g., right-wing libertarians or crypto-antisemitic conspiracy-theorists.)

     

    The political terms "left" and "right" have ideological meaning. Likewise "centrism" is not defined via an attempt to locate a compromised middle ground somewhere between right-wing Republican monsters and diet-right-wing corporatist Democrats.

     

    I've written more about this here: This is what passes for "reasonable" politics.

     

    > What about free speech?

     

    There's a popular notion that the only civilized approach to social disagreement is to always hear out "all sides" in the "free marketplace of ideas", an imaginary immaterial abstraction. That opinions, no matter how brain-dead stupid or toxic, should always be honored and meticulously ironed out via public "intellectual" debate.

     

    But this kind of free speech absolutism is often a pretentious stance weaponized to platform memetic bigotry and silence already marginalized views.

     

    By extreme analogy, imagine if there were pro-slavery members on this forum. My stance is that it's a complete waste of time to argue with these people. It would pollute our space with the delusion that both sides of this "debate" are legitimate.

     

    I think most of us would agree that bans of racist and violent speech are appropriate. I'm drawing a new, firmer line in the sand.

     

    No racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, climate change denial, fascism, crypto-fascism, antisocial bigotry, or far-right bullshit in general (including QAnon and Pizzagate lunacy).

     

    There are plenty of other reactionary ashcans on the Internet for these "very fine folks" to brigade.

     

    Speech is not harmless. Speech has real, immediate, direct, material consequences on other human beings. Implicitly allowing socially toxic rhetoric to continue platforming itself unchecked in a space, poisons that space, and disproportionately harms the least powerful.

     

    > This is a slippery slope, where will it end?

     

    Fully automated luxury gay space communism, obviously. You should probably leave now before the communism and gay-stuff starts happening. 🍆💦

     

    > This seems exclusionary and mean.

     

    It's exclusionary and not nice, but I don't think it's mean, at least not senselessly.

     

    Ask yourself, how many thoughtful, gracious members of this forum have quietly left after seeing relatively uncontested right-wing bullshit plastered across the forums here? I'm aware of several personally.

     

    And I don't think the bullshit here is undisputed because of implicit support. I think it's merely sidestepped for the same reason most reasonable people avoid challenging someone screaming evangelical diatribes on the subway. It's literally just not worth the effort. i.e., "the amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."

     

    There's plenty of other subways on the internet to scream inside. This one is no longer tolerating right-wing bullshit.

     

    > Are we abandoning confused people who maybe need this forum the most?

     

    Meh. I think this question comes from a decent place. But this isn't a political education forum. My stance is that we need to reestablish a bare minimum baseline of shared values.

     

    > Are you still with me?

     

    If so, that must mean:

    1. You weren't asked to leave.
    2. You think it's okay and even very good that I've gone full heruka.

    Welcome! I'm delighted to have you here. I hope you'll stay. ❤️

     

    And I hope you'll stand in solidarity with me as I perch precariously on this fraught limb I've now climbed out on. It's my sincere hope that we can reclaim and reenchant The Dao Bums as a weird-left-friendly space again.

     

    > Will you help me?

     

    I do need your help. In fact I won't be able to do this without you. Please PM me if you're interested in helping our community. There will be free snacks. 🙃

     

    With Love,

    Sean

     

    • Like 14
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    • Haha 3
    • Confused 2

  22. Posted

    This topic is an embarrassing pile of trash.

     

    As founder of this space I'd like to personally invite members committed to far-right politics leave this forum.

     

    You're not welcome here anymore.

     

    The web is awash with other far-right friendly dumpsters you can crawl into.

     

    Peace,

    Sean

     

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 5

  23. Posted

    6 hours ago, Zork said:

    Fascism isn't right wing despite what many claim or where they categorise it.

     

    Also note that Nazi=national socialist.

     

    1 hour ago, MooNiNite said:

    Alt Left + Alt Right = Nazi

     

    Dumb: "The Nazis had the word 'Socialist' in their party name, therefore their agenda was also socialist!"

    Dumber: "People who oppose and fight Nazis and white nationalists are also the Nazis!! "

     

    Fellas, these are far-right talking points and excruciatingly idiotic examples of the bullshit I avoid engaging in anymore.

     

    They're such stunningly false, historically and philosophically oblivious statements easily corrected by even a cursory study that it's difficult for me to imagine motives other than willful ignorance or worse.

     

    Sorry, but the first statement is like a child seeing the word "Republican" in "Irish Republican Army" and confidently asserting that this means they must be ideologically related to the U.S. Republican Party.

     

    The second is like a deranged sociopath saying that victims of rape that fight back are as bad as rapists.

     

    As founder of this space I'd like to personally invite members committed to the latter conflation in particular, and far-right politics in general, to just leave this forum. You're not welcome here anymore.

     

    Sean

     

    • Like 2
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