dwai

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Advaita Vedanta is the Non-Dual teaching contained in Vedanta (aka Upanishads). 

Advaita Vedanta posits that this (material world) is transitory—constantly changing. But underlying this, there is a changeless reality—which is Existence itself, Consciousness/Awareness itself, and bliss itself. Furthermore, you—the limited being who seems to live and die and suffer in the process—are none other than that changeless reality.

 

There is no need for major alchemical processes to transform the individual from a limited being to anything else—you are that changeless infinite awareness right here and now, only that you have forgotten it due to conditioning (society, experiences, etc.). All you need is someone to point you to yourself and help you realize your true nature. Once you realize your true nature, all your suffering, cravings, and aversions will fall away, and you can become free. 

 

What does one practice in Advaita Vedanta?

 

There are 3 main processes - 

1. Listening (sravana)

2. Contemplating (manana)

3. Meditating (nidhidhyasana)

 

How does one accomplish these processes?

 

1. Listening - find a realized teacher and listen to their teachings

2. contemplating - Take the teachings you're listening to and contemplate on them - how they relate to you, how you are able to analyze your own experiences to confirm empirically the teachings. In this, there are several approaches (called vicharas or analyses) where you use apply the teachings to separate the real from the unreal (viveka) depending on which one is given to you by your teacher -

- The Analysis of the Five Sheaths (panchakosha viveka) 

- The Analysis of the Seer and the Seen (Drik-Drishya viveka)

- The Analysis of Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep (avastha-traya viveka) 

3. Meditating - Integrate the experiential knowledge you develop as you proceed through the first two steps into a continuous meditation on the nature of reality (not the same kind of meditation as yogic meditation)

 

 

PS—The approach used, and its teachings are correlated with the Upanishads. For example, the Madukya Upanishad employs the Avastha-traya viveka approach (Waking/Dreaming/Deep Sleep). Usually the teacher will temper their teaching based on their student evaluation (for some a single approach will work, for others multiple approaches might be needed).

Additionally, there is also the prospect of a student not being ready for this kind of inquiry—they might have what is called "chitta mala" (impurities in their mind) or "chitta viskepa" (scattered mind). Different techniques are recommended to remedy these as preliminary steps (which might include yogic meditation, hatha yoga, service, mantras, etc.). Once the mind is sufficiently purified, then the teachings of Vedanta will be absorbed properly. 

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

what exactly is AV?

 

Advaita Vedanta is the Non-Dual teaching contained in Vedanta (aka Upanishads). 

Advaita Vedanta posits that this (material world) is transitory—constantly changing. But underlying this, there is a changeless reality—which is Existence itself, Consciousness/Awareness itself, and bliss itself. Furthermore, you—the limited being who seems to live and die and suffer in the process—are none other than that changeless reality.

There is no need for major alchemical processes to transform the individual from a limited being to anything else—you are that changeless infinite awareness right here and now, only that you have forgotten it due to conditioning (society, experiences, etc.). All you need is someone to point you to yourself and help you realize your true nature. Once you realize your true nature, all your suffering, cravings, and aversions will fall away, and you can become free. 

What does one practice in Advaita Vedanta?

There are 3 main processes - 

1. Listening (sravana)

2. Contemplating (manana)

3. Meditating (nidhidhyasana)

How does one accomplish these processes?

1. Listening - find a realized teacher and listen to their teachings

2. contemplating - Take the teachings you're listening to and contemplate on them - how they relate to you, how you are able to analyze your own experiences to confirm empirically the teachings. In this, there are several approaches (called vicharas or analyses) where you use apply the teachings to separate the real from the unreal (viveka) depending on which one is given to you by your teacher -

- The Analysis of the Five Sheaths (panchakosha viveka) 

- The Analysis of the Seer and the Seen (Drik-Drishya viveka)

- The Analysis of Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep (avastha-traya viveka) 

3. Meditating - Integrate the experiential knowledge you develop as you proceed through the first two steps into a continuous meditation on the nature of reality (not the same kind of meditation as yogic meditation)

14 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Oh i had no idea, please forgive my ignorance! But... err, what exactly is its teaching and which exact Upanishad contains it?

Depends on what you want to learn  

There are several methods/practices of inquiry in different Upanishads. Start with the Mandukya Upanishad if you’re feeling lucky. It covers what is called the avasthatraya method - and goes into a deep exploration of Om. 

I started in the old-school karate Goju Ryu style back in the 1990s. I trained in Hapkido and Aikido for a few years when I moved to the US. I also started learning Taichi around that time (back in 2000), and eventually, I dropped all hard martial arts. I stuck with Taichi (initially Yang style and then Temple style in the system of Master Waysun Liao—which is what I continue to practice to this day). 

10 hours ago, Nintendao said:

 

As a principle nivritti / pravritti looks close to one of the uses of the kan / li trigrams:

☵ awareness collected inwards (like pooling water)

☲ attention dispersed outwards (as flame and smoke)

The mantra Om is basically a method of this inward collecting process. Om comprises of three syllables and the fourth part being silence - A, U, M (pronounced in Sanskrit as aah, ooh, mmm ). It is a model of the everything (aah) collapsing (ooh) into a singularity (mmm), and then silence/stillness/emptiness. A represents the material universe, U represents the process of returning/reversion, M represents the singularity and silence is emptiness. 

8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

good job. Notice how every word in Daoism comes from a historical proven source, chapter and verse.  whereas '"Advaita Vedanta" language comes from nowhere;). what would that tell about "Advaita Vedanta" to a reasonable man?

It says a lot more about people who spout off without adequate knowledge on the matter of Advaita Vedanta

Advaita Vedanta is the teachings contained in the Upanishads - which are part of the Vedic canon. 

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

he was able to see a fundamental light everywhere including within himself, so it may well be possible to see this fundamental thing with a new evolutionary sense developed.

The big question is, is this literally light or  figurative light? 
We can see “light” - in Sanskrit it is called bhāti (shining), in all phenomena right here and now. 
 

There are five aspects of all phenomena/things - 

* asti - is-ness

* bhāti - shining 

* priyam - usefulness (even a heap of dung is useful) 

* nāma - name 

* rūpa - form

Of these, the last two are categorized as jagadrūpam (sign of the materialistic world) and the first three are called brahmarūpam (sign of Brahaman).
 

What people miss is the brahmarūpam aspects (in which the shining/light belongs) and only recognize the jagadrūpam aspects.

What happens after realization is the brahmarūpam also becomes recognized, hence “seeing light in everything, including within. Can it manifest as perceptible light for some? Maybe. People with synesthesia see colors associated with sounds, patterns with music and so on. 
 

3 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Certainly no-one has ever come to understand it by thinking... and yet here we all, are wasting valuable time talking about it.

Know or know not, try we must 😇

The Philosophical Convergence of Daoism and Vedanta

Daoist and Vedantic philosophies, despite their distinct origins, share remarkable similarities in their views on reality, the nature of the self, and how to live in harmony with the universe. Two core concepts exemplify this convergence: the Daoist principle of reversion and the Vedantic concept of nivritti. Additionally, there's a striking parallel between the Daoist concept of wu wei and the Vedantic principle of nishkama karma.

Daoist Reversion and Vedantic Nivritti

Daoist Wu Wei and Vedantic Nishkama Karma

Stillness, Silence, and the Path of Return

Both Daoism and Vedanta place great value on the cultivation of inner stillness and silence. This stillness is not merely the absence of external noise but a profound quieting of the mind and its constant fluctuations.

• Daoism: Stillness reflects a return to the natural state of the Dao. Like still water reflecting the world without distortion, a still mind reveals the true nature of things.
• Vedanta: Silence and stillness are seen as vital for the inward journey of nivritti. In the silence of the mind, the illusions of the ego dissolve, allowing the realization of the true Self.

Key Similarities Across Concepts

• Return to the Source: Both philosophies emphasize a profound journey of returning to our original, unconditioned state, which exists at the core of our existence.
• Non-Attachment: Liberation is seen as fundamentally linked to non-attachment, whether to worldly desires, the fruits of action, or even the ego-bound sense of self.
• Inner Transformation: The realization of these principles requires deep introspection, inner transformation, and a letting go of limiting beliefs and patterns of behavior.
• Cultivation of Stillness: Both traditions see inner silence and stillness as essential tools for accessing deeper levels of awareness and the wisdom within.

While these philosophies hold nuanced differences in their specific ontologies and methods, the profound overlap in their core concepts serves as a testament to a shared human search for meaning, tranquility, and a harmonious way of life.

PS: generated using Gemini advanced

43 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

But this is a false duality. The presence of the words doesn't hide or impact the background, and the lighted background is needed for the words to appear. Nor does one need to eliminate or make the words go away. The words depend on the background, but the background transcends any and all words. 

This is akin to how before one knows what a mirage is, it

is mistaken for water. Once it becomes known what a mirage is, a mirage still appears to be a body of water from the distance,  but one understands it is just a mirage. 

On 4/21/2024 at 10:58 PM, Small Fur said:

let yourself be a great student and observer to the life within yourself; to not fear to uncover, discover and adventure across your own ravines and mountains; for somewhere in its inner depths lies the Mysterious Passage- a dimension without place, an entry without lock, a recognition of the true self within the Great Tao Yin.

It is ever-present, but sadly overlooked because people always look for some object to latch onto. It’s like the absentminded person who’s wearing his glasses and looking for it outside somewhere…how do you know you have eyes? 
 

From James Swartz 

There are so many ways to explain this - but it requires a truly open mind to understand/realize. If one’s mind is preoccupied by concepts and ideas, then it cannot truly accept the knowledge (indirect though it may be). If it cannot accept the knowledge, how can it realize? 

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

ok, we have heard that many a time which does not take into account evolution of the soul,  (although and granted the Self, which could be said to be the Soul of the soul does not evolve) anyway we could say all beings will realize such by the end of the cosmic cycle, ready or not.  

What soul? 

On 4/17/2024 at 9:20 AM, idiot_stimpy said:

 

Causal - I am undifferentiated awareness. I see thoughts arising within the space of awareness. Awareness will be there when thoughts cease. I effortlessly exist. I AM.

It is not the I AM, but awareness enveloped in inertia. That which you call “unknown” is the I AM. 

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

all beings will be enlightened per that returning ...

all beings are already enlightened - they just haven’t realized it yet 

7 hours ago, S:C said:

@dwai could you provide us with a translation of 

Quote

Kshanikam - Momentary

Sarvam - Everything

So the Buddhists say - "Everything is momentary" (impermanence)

Khalu - Verify

idam - This 

Brahma - Brahman (the ground of being)

Advaitins say - "Everything is verily Brahman"  (Permanence)

The two seem mutually exclusive. But are they? Everything is certainly momentary/temporary, but does that mean Brahman is also fleeting and temporary? This can be understood by the statement, "Samsara (everything) is Nirvana (liberation), and Nirvana (liberation) is Samsara (everything)."

The Advaitins say that "everything" is perceived as separate, ephemeral objects because the knowledge of Brahman (Pure Consciousness) is not realized. When the realization occurs that all things appear and disappear in Brahman alone, then the confusion is dispelled once and for all. 

On 4/16/2024 at 3:30 PM, forestofemptiness said:

 

It is interesting that Advaitins have to contend with the idea that things are impermanent and constantly changing, whereas Buddhists have to contend with the idea that things are enduring and lasting! I suppose it depends on how one tunes the mind.

 

So interesting. Yet it is the Buddhists who say “kshanikam kshanikam sarvam kshanikam” and the advaitins who say, “sarvam khalu idam brahma” 

What is the sound of One Hand Clapping?

16 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

in general when the modern mystics try to share, they undermine it by not providing definitions and by not providing concrete examples. While the intent is commendable, the message is fuzzy. If you want us to understand what you write you should explain that in your mind a thing is not an object. because it is kinda clashes with a dictionary. Then, pls provide an example.

Those who are ready to understand will do so  

16 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

like here.  i am very interested in what @stirling says but i have to ask him for an example 'how the emptiness feels like, what do you see?' otherwise i dont know what he is trying to say.

It feels like no thing  

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake

10 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

Those who have not seen and experienced from the absolute viewpoint can only objectify it. But even those who have seen and experienced from the absolute viewpoint must objectify it to talk about it, as words are objects and as you describe "...it can never become an object."

 

 

 

That’s the irony - everyone is always “experiencing” that absolute. The misunderstanding  about what *it* is, is what causes the aforementioned confusion. 
 

PS - I wrote “experiencing” in quotes because I there’s  not really experiencing “it” per se - all experience is because of it. So the old question of “how does one know one has eyes?” is applicable here. 

Why is the Two Reality model so difficult to reconcile?

The problem stems from the following perspective -

As beings operating inside one of the realities (relative reality level), we are used to using the subject-object framework to operate. What is the subject-object framework? You, the subject, experience phenomena (objects) - things are created, they are destroyed, living beings are born, and then they die; there might be attributes of nature that exist at a larger timescale than our limited presence in the phenomenal world, but we see those too change and transform (dramatically sometimes) - rivers that have flowed for thousands of years might run dry, mountains might collapse due to tectonic movements in the earth's crust, and so on. Given this, you (and by *you* I mean all of us) operate continuously as a subject relative to objects you experience. In such a scenario, the possibility of a Reality outside the scope of this phenomenal world seems unfathomable. Indeed, when we are using language to communicate this information, it adds to the confusion even more. We are taking phenomenal objects (words, thoughts, language itself) to try and articulate something that lies outside the remit of phenomena.

The "other" reality, one that is often called the Absolute Reality, is the one that stands without a second, or in other words, is not affected by the appearance or disappearance of objects. What is such a reality? Referring to it as a "thing" is a language limitation - because it is not a *thing*. Why is it not a thing? Because it can never become an object. It is pure objectless consciousness - the ground of all things. How is it the ground of all things? Because all things (objects) appear and disappear in it. 

The problem is a category mistake. You seek to understand it as an object—expect to see/study its properties when it doesn't have any. But it is the very thing that enables you to seek, observe, and know. 

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

Please do not take offense.

That is how you see it. Ying and yang. Your opinion. That is fine.

Yes, an Eastern concept. It seems that you have adopted it. That is fine too.

Heat expands, Yes, and cold contracts. But cold is the lack of heat. Opposite? Without light is darkness??

Gravity attracts as a force and is everywhere a person is. To create a force to push one away from the earth is not a natural force like gravity. So not opposite. Not really yin nor yang there.

No offense taken, nor given. 

I'm merely trying to show you that these are metaphysical cosmological concepts - there's no woo-woo involved here. 

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

In magnetism, there is a north pole and a south pole. No real monopoles.

There are negative charges by itself and positive charges by them selves.

It is however called electro-magnetism. Weird??

However, there is matter but have not found antimatter in the same quantities.

See, just examples. Yin and yang is where you wish to see it.

Or one could say, that yin-yang is present at relative levels across the spectrum. I'd seen a very nice illustration of how yin-yang works in progressively smaller scales - some may call it a series of differentials. 

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

No, nothing to believe or dis-believe. These are concepts. Things thought up by a person. Understand them if you wish. Not everyone has to understand them. It isn't a requirement for anything. You are hung up on this concept of Yin and Yang. What do they call that? Being hung up on opposites? Duality?? Light and dark?? Right and wrong?? An object is neither right nor wrong unless I think it so?

Yin-yang are not mutually exclusive - they are interrelated. Yin contains the seed of yang, and yang contains the seed of yin. Absolute yang gives rise to Yin. And absolute yin gives rise to yang. The duality is only apparent. 

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

Again, please take no offense. I am not here to argue. Like the atheist who believes in a sprit or soul. You can believe whatever you wish. But, to force it upon another is cruel and unusual propaganda. I apologize if this upsets you. It is only meant to present a different point of view.

Not at all - I just felt that you didn't understand the concept, so I thought I'd help elucidate it for you.

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

High to low is system looking for equilibrium. Entropy.

That is yin-yang in play. 

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

Yin and yang are Eastern concepts. 

So what?  

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Heat expand. There is no cold. Only a lack of heat. Gravity attracts and there is no force that pushes apart. 

Heat expands, The principle of expansion is called Yang. Gravity attracts - the principle of attraction is called yin. There can of course be a force that pushes apart - how do you think rockets escape earth’s gravity? 

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

I neither believe in yin and yang nor do I disbelieve. As I said, I like to play in the shallow end. Less headaches.

There is nothing to believe or disbelieve - these are metaphysical concepts - one has to understand them. 
 

11 hours ago, Tommy said:

Motion is a function of change in distance over the change in time. To say it is an interplay of yin and yang is to say there is something that we do not see or feel but confers change in time and space to our lives. Is it wrong or right? I have no idea. Too deep for me, I like to play in the shallow end

What do you call the movement of a fluid from a higher pressure area to lower pressure area?  
 

Yin and yang are always present and accessible to us. We just need to properly attune our senses to see and the intellect to discern. Yin/Yang are not some abstract concepts - heat expands - Yang, cold contracts - yin. Gravity attracts - yin, and so on…

Yin-yang interplay is that substantial and insubstantial are always trying to attain balance. That is constantly underway  at physical, mental, and  spiritual levels.