Narayana

On 09/01/2024 at 1:46 AM, ChiDragon said:

@Narayana Asked: "Does the practice of abdominal breathing leads to microcosmic orbit? Please clarify"

I am glad to share what I had experienced and understood to explain it with my own conclusion.

The practice of microcosmic orbit(MICO) was never explained explicitly by ancient Taoists. From what I have gathered. The purpose of MICO is to have chi circulate in both the Governor and Conception Vessels. In order to do so, the pathway between the two vessels must be cleared. However, at first, there is a blockage between the two vessels. Thus it was to be said that the Governor and Conception Vessels were not connected. 

What does that mean the two vessels were not connected? Well, in the meridian diagrams, the Conception Vessel is in the front of the body and the Governor Vessel is in the back. Now, here come the question where is this blockage taken place? This has something which related to the lower dantian(LDT).  If the chi(breath or air) did not sink the to dantian, it was said to be that there is a blockage. In order to clear the blockage, the breath must be able to reach deep down to the LDT(abdomen). It was known as "sink chi to the dantian(氣沈丹田)".

The LDT is located right on the Conception Vessel and below the navel. If the breath did not reach down to the LDT, then, chi cannot flow between the Conception and Governor Vessels. Therefore, abdominal breathing must be performed to clear the blockage for the two vessels to connect.

Here was my experience with breathing. At one time, when I breathe I felt that my breath is only going down to the chest. So when I lay down in bed, I had performed the ancient Qigong breathing method three nights in the row. It was called Tu Na(吐納). The first two nights my breath was not able to pass my chest. I felt a little suffocation. Fortunately, on the three night, I tried again and again to have my breath to pass the chest. After a few attempts, all the sudden my breath went pass my chest and deep down to my abdomen. At the point, I feel so good with no more suffocating feeling. Hereinafter, I continue to breathe down deep to my LDT. For some reason, my inside feeling was so relaxed and seems like my body had become lighter.

I believe that was what the ancient Taoists went through in their microcosmic orbit practice. The blockage was cleared. Now, chi can circulate or orbit in both the Conception and Governor Vessels. Finally, it can be said that the practice of microcosmic orbit has been accomplished.

Anyway, this is my two cents worth!

Thank you very much for the clarification 🙏🙏

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

That is good news. You do that as your normal breathing but not just in practice. Actually, you are practicing as you breathe at all times.

This practice leads to microcosmic orbit? Please clarify 

11 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

May I ask how deep does your breath go？Is it all the way down to your abdomen?

I sense it goes to navel. Currently I am practicing for 10 min

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

This is very important to know.
When the breath have reached down to the lower dantian, then, the abdomen is fully expanded. It was considered to be that chi has been reached down to the dantian. It has been known as LDT or abdominal breathing. Its purpose was to breathe as much air into the lung for the red blood cells to pick up the oxygen and delivered to all the body cells. It is most desirable to breathe slow and deep to allow more time for collecting the oxygen by the red blood cells.

By practicing Natural abdominal breathing and reverse abdominal breathing can I reach microcosmic orbit stage?

I read a book written by a Taoist meditator his name is yin shi I think. He said by practicing Natural and reverse abdominal breathing we can reach microcosmic orbit stage what's your opinion?

On 02/01/2024 at 4:06 AM, ChiDragon said:

Some people have breathing problems need to be corrected with special instructions

My left nostril is blocked I can only breath freely from right nostril only. Do I need special instructions?

On 02/01/2024 at 4:06 AM, ChiDragon said:

The Ultimate Method of Breathing(UMB) relies on the famous phrase 氣沉丹田(sink chi to the dantian). The interpretation is sink the breath deep down to the abdomen. Hence, that is why it was called abdominal breathing. That is the goal for all practitioners of Qigong and martial artists want to accomplish. It is because under this condition, the body can exert the most power possible.

Everyone can practice it. Some people have breathing problems need to be corrected with special instructions. In order to begin the practice, it needs to set a baseline to determine how deep is the breath under natural breathing. The deep at this point is the baseline.

To begin the practice, each time, take a slow and long breath until it reaches the baseline. Then, exhale from the baseline. It needs practice this for weeks and months to get use to the breathing exercise. Eventually, the breath will go deeper and deeper down to the abdomen. Under this condition is what was called "氣沉丹田, sink chi to the dantian."

If people having breathing problems do not follow this procedure will be suffocated that might cause dizziness or felt like vomiting. The reason of that is because breathing to fast and deep will have more oxygen intake than normal. The brain is not use to in having so much oxygen all at once. Thus it causes suffocation and dizziness. That is why breathing has to be done progressively to bring the breath down to the abdomen slowly.

For those who have no breathing problems still need to establish a baseline as described above. Luckily, it will that less time to have the breath to reach the abdomen.

Anyone have any question please let me know. Some people may have a different understanding about 氣沉丹田.  Please do not argue about it in this thread. Thank you!

Some people say we should keep gentle focus on Lower Dantian while breathing in and out do you recommend this?

7 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

Yes, that’s typically what people bring up. E.g. thank you to @Sketch https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/54363-on-the-nature-and-utility-of-goal-posts-in-meditative-and-energetic-practice/?do=findComment&comment=999183

 

 

Thank you for the info. Then Buddhist meditation differs from Daoist meditation: 

Buddhist meditation - anapanasati - “we simply watch breath we don't control breath”

Daoist meditation- 吐纳 tu3 na4 - intentionally adjusting the breathing. E.g. thank you to @ChiDragonhttps://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55424-the-ultiamte-method-of-breathing/?do=findComment&comment=1021736

 

As you said, they may ultimately lead to the same at the highest level.  

I also read you are interested in Taoist neidan (internal alchemy). I refer you to  @Taoist Texts  

 

Thank you very much for the links 😊

8 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Thank you very much for the info.  

 

I had formed the impression (from reading posts on this forum) that Buddhist meditation is all about controlling the breath.

??? Confused. 

 

 

Are you talking about Anapanasati ( breath meditation) ? In Anapanasati meditation we simply watch breath we don't control breath. 

36 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Scroll up lol 

What? 😅

28 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Lower abdomen, it’s not a tiny point so don’t worry about looking too hard for it. When you meditate, breathe deep into your lower abdomen and extend your stomach. Just focus on the area where you feel pressure when your stomach is extended.

Thank you very much for your answer. Really helpful 👍

Hi Dear Bums,

My name is narayana I am new to this website.

I am interested in Taoist meditation. I want to practice Lower Dantian meditation.

What is location of Lower Dantian?

Waiting for your answers 🙏

On 29/12/2023 at 3:43 AM, Cobie said:

Is “yoga breathing” the same as Buddhist/Taoist meditation? 
 

No. There is huge difference between Indian yogic breathing and Taoist breathing. Buddhism didn't have   breathing techniques except for Tibetan Buddhism

On 29/12/2023 at 3:31 AM, Pak_Satrio said:

Ah it’s not a proper TDB welcome without an argument in the comments section!

I never expected I get a grand welcome 😁 here 😉

On 29/12/2023 at 3:23 AM, ChiDragon said:

I don't think people in India ever practiced Taoism. There would be a greater chance to find a Buddhist in India. I think!

Yes. Most people don't know about Taoism in India. There are many buddist meditation centers in India which teaches Vipassana meditation and other buddist meditation techniques. So your assumption is right 👍

On 27/12/2023 at 5:24 AM, ChiDragon said:

Welcome! Why can you not follow Buddhist meditation? They should be the same.

Thanks. In my opinion they are same at very High level. But not at beginning. For example Taoist meditators cultivate Lower Dantian. Buddist meditators meditate on breath, kasina, Vipassana meditation etc. 

I like 3 religions ( Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism) but I like Taoism more due to neidan ( internal alchemy). 

Thanks for welcoming me🙏

On 27/12/2023 at 4:10 AM, Pak_Satrio said:

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks 

Hi, I am narayana I am from India. I am interested in Taoist meditation. Nice to meet you all.