Sahaja

Thanks. I kind of wondered why I don’t experience heat from this stuff.

A part of it is your body producing the immortal medicine. However, it’s not really at the level of a practice. My understanding is it’s more of an outcome to transformations that change how practices work and who you are. It does have a physical component to it related to the bodies organ systems. I would say it’s not only part of certain alchemy lineages but is also referenced in certain old tantric yoga systems as well. we tend to approach things simply as practices as that’s the way the intellect works. However it’s much more subtle and nuanced than that and way more difficult or so I’m told. Not something that arises from a few practices or reading a few books. Probably requires substantial time in retreat from society, changes to the acquired mind and some feedback from others further along the path. I sometimes wonder if people really think through what it means to go beyond the acquired mind, if they really want to go through that much change to who they think they are. Though I don’t think you need to find a Taoist immortal to learn about it just as you don’t need access to a Buddha to learn about Buddhist cultivation methods or a Yogic immortal to learn about yogic methods. Though I imagine it might help, haha.

Only a Xian can teach ? Wow, thats quite a steep hurdle. Does this mean only winners of Wimbledon can teach one anything about tennis? The tennis lessons must be quite expensive.

About 18 years ago visited a temple in rural Myanmar with my family that had ceremonies led by what appeared to us as transgender “priest/priestess” mediums. Dance and music were a big part of the ceremony. The local people attending (the vast majority in attendance) appeared to treat the mediums with a great deal of seriousness and respect. In our personal interactions with the mediums they were very open, light hearted/quick to laugh, and were kind to us offering to pray for our daughters’ then upcoming school exams.

to work with opening the ren, one may want to explore releasing/relaxing tension from the Tian Tu point in the upper chest as I understand this is a common sticking or blocking point for many people. This relates to the instruction “sinking the chest” which per my understanding means releasing/relaxing of tension vertically down inside the body from that point.

Curious whether there is any impact or change at the chromosomal level to transition. - xx to xy or xy to xx. I realize there is a small percentage of the population don’t fit into these general chromosomal categories.

I think an important part of it is moving from intention (conscious, subconscious and unconscious) to pure attention (without desires, goals, discursive thought) to states beyond this. There are conditions and methods that facilitate this. Imagination is a form of intention or discursive thought so it’s not a tool for this practice in my understanding. While there is likely similarity between apothetic methods across traditions as many deal with moving beyond the acquired mind to a unitive state, I think it’s better to keep them separate in application so one doesn’t miss important nuances unique to each tradition.

I enjoy reading the academic works on Daoist apophetic methods such as by Harold Roth, Stephen Eskildsen , Louis Komjecky and others. I would say that my view is somewhat different on the translations of the Chinese terms into the English terms like “breath” and “visualization”. Visualization (cun or cunxiang) maybe alternatively translated as paying attention to and see what actually arises as opposed to imagining something. This translation is more in alignment with the Daoist concept of wu wei or non doing particularly in the context of sitting and forgetting. Qi is not just the breath in my understanding, it is much more.

Maybe some wood qi gong would help with moderating excessive judgement. The five elements model of cultivation includes the path of balancing the emotions (at the initial level). there is a difference between our natural tendency to categorize things and the ego driven need to compare. It’s important to understand the difference. Both arise from being a limited self, but the first is useful for our survival as a physical entity the latter is more about the reinforcement/survival of the ego.

Perhaps the probability of attaining enlightenment is near zero when we have an intent to achieve it. Perhaps the probability of reaching enlightenment is near zero when we don’t have something/someone outside of ourselves pointing out when our intent to achieve it arises. Perhaps the probability of reaching enlightenment is near zero when we don’t have a useful method to help us reach our potential. Perhaps the probability of reaching enlightenment is near zero when we believe the chosen method and helper is more important than the qualities inherent in the first statement. as much as it can be depressing to see so many people searching and not finding, the existence of the energy driving this search to me is quite a hopeful sign as it seems stronger and more resilient than both logic and intent.

It can also be translated as skill from the self. Meaning it’s something from inside that’s not at the conscious level. It’s usually associated with active or yang qi getting freed up in a practice like releasing tension that hits a blockage in one’s body which results in involuntary movements, involuntary speech or sounds, shaking, involuntary prostrations etc. it can be innocuous or it can be quite dramatic but it’s really only the body opening up under the influence of active qi. Some “masters” get this initiated in their students and describe it as something magical or demonic taking advantage of its unusual involuntary nature to influence students to follow them However in more serious lineages they treat it as more mundane, more like passing gas, that the teacher politely ignores. If you are doing qi gong with the mind absorbed deeply inside there is a good chance something like this will arise. Sometimes it can be triggered by something very simple, like a doing a hand mudra. It’s just a phase that will pass so it’s best to let it do its thing (open you up more) and not to get too attached to it. Of course there is always a next phase, lol.

My understanding of texts is they describe what had arisen at the end state, not the process to get there which comes from the teacher and from direct experience. The process is not binary and starts by charting out the route and is filled differently(yang qi, yin qi, light, the Dan etc.) at different stages of the process. Even at the earliest stages this is an unimposed non manufactured process that is quite strong somatically but effort is necessary to put the conditions where it can arise in place.Ultimately it even goes outside the physical body interacting with the yin fields around you. Actually I should not say ultimately, as I don’t really know how many levels there are (the “10, 000” levels back to the one maybe the way to describe it) The most important point is that it is a spiritual process anchored in a physical process based on moving beyond/releasing these contractions and colorings of the acquired bodymind. (Very analogous to yoga and Buddhist cultivation methods )The “doing” are these contractions and colorings of the bodymind - non doing or non governance is moving away from these intentions/contractions to pure attention uncolored by the acquired mind and then beyond this. When the tai chi masters talk about song and ting they are describing using these tools in a more prosaic way but in many ways it seems quite similar. Even at a beginners level one can feel the qi strongly respond to the “releasing” of both physical and mental contractions if one is “listening’”. When authors take an end state and reverse engineer it into a process to follow based on imagination or visualization of the end state, they are just encouraging more contraction of the mind and actually impeding the process as they are directing the use of energies toward more doing rather than the un doing of these physical and mental contractions which is the effort required. It may sound contradictory but letting go of the contractions takes work particularly when the ego and the physical body don’t want you to release the contractions. The ego in many ways defines itself through these contractions. It probably feels quite threatened when stuff arises it’s not directly controlling! i enjoy reading the texts and appreciate the work of philologists, academics and translators. When I read things like “supreme yin” in the really old texts I can see the connection to very important aspects of the process and it’s helpful to see that. I am grateful for the light they shed and they are doing something I clearly don’t have the skills for. They have done much good work that should be acknowledged. However I think errors can be made when outcomes are conflated with processes. ok Taoist texts - have at me! Perhaps it will help me release my own contractions to get some humility. I undoubtedly have a lot more to learn. (Only 10,000 more levels to go)

My understanding is that it arises when the correct conditions are in place. When it starts moving it’s pretty clear what is going on and that you are not directly governing it with your intention at that point.

I see in my FB feed that Max is teaching “kunlun” again - this week in San Jose. These days it seems like most any qi gong can produce zi fa gong.

My understanding is similar to silent thunders. The subtle anatomy and associated practices of alchemy has some marked differences from TCM though there are similarities. While I haven’t ingested alchemical herbs I know people who have and their effects can be quite strong. I guess it’s analogous to qi gong. You can practice qi gong at the level of health (more like TCM) or you can use qi gong to change the body(s) to support a spiritual practice. The latter is a lot more intense(much more than just waving your hands around). In terms of channels, some of the names might be similar (like the du) but size might dramatically change (become the width of your back or more) in alchemical applications of practice. I’ve found TCM herbs helpful from a medical perspective in my martial arts practices but my understanding is that it’s not the same thing. Because of common use of terms (and propensity for secrecy) a lot of confusion is created between TCM and alchemical/spiritual based approaches.

My first wife was born in the year of the green dragon. Our marriage was a bit of a disaster but like the dragon she regenerated and made a career out of the disaster(wrote her autobiography, TV shows, Oprah, etc.). Kind of a rough ride for me at the time but now just ironic and humorous looking at it from a distance through the rear view mirror. Perhaps the point here is that as we face the dragon this year knowing that time will help put its challenges into perspective changing them into lessons ( that might even make us laugh at some point!).

My understanding is when one has moved from intentional based thought into absorption in awareness, dreams stop. Dreams are another version of intentional thought based in the acquired mind/limited self, albeit at the subconscious or unconscious levels of intention.

While more qi does enable many things, I think a very important element isthe ability to soak the awareness into the body which enables one to both perceive and use qi more accurately as well as make more qi. I remember when I was young studying martial arts there was a lot of qi generated but my ability to internally connect with it and direct it was quite limited, more of an external application. Now more recently my practices have opened up the internal world much more through absorption of the awareness in the body (and applying the Yi Jin Jing principles) I think Freeform used to refer to the power of the absorption of awareness into the body in some of his posts and it certainly has been my experience. I think this changes one’s practice whether one is doing qi gong or martial arts or yoga. Perhaps someday this will evolve from absorption of awareness in the body to the body absorbed into awareness - this is where the game changes dramatically or so I’m told and takes one beyond regular qi to original qi. My understanding is that this requires releasing all intention, conscious or otherwise. Not an easy thing to do.

I am not a scientist but I believe tides are a function of the size of the body of water. Lakes don’t have meaningful tides because they are too small to notice the effect - I think the biggest lakes (e.g. Great Lakes) have measurable ones but they are only a couple of centimeters and are dwarfed when compared with effects of the wind. In both the Nath lineage of yoga and some Daoist internal arts there are charts showing the relationship between the phases of the moon and energy in the body. Interesting both have a relationship between the top of the head and full moon. Direction of the energy movement from point to point during waxing and waning and many of the points are in common. Naths utilize this knowledge in their yoga practice. There are also some practices that utilize this knowledge in Daoist internal arts (e.g. full moon practice).

Yes it’s ironic that people write off things to hypnosis or placebo effect or say things like mind over matter without thinking about the causation chain behind these terms. If they did this they might realize something more amazing is happening then what they think they are dismissing.

Sounds like you answered your own question in comparing it to that which makes you feel refreshed and clears the mind. It’s important to listen to your body’s wisdom about what is working for you and what isn’t. While the body isn’t always right, it generally won’t lie to you. The acquired mind however, is another story. the only thing I would add is that another source is what family, friends, and acquaintances (or doctors) say about changes in you (or lack there of). It’s usually a good idea to get a second opinion!

While I don’t follow this path, I believe that it contains complete paths for those who are able to complete them. However I think that it is extremely difficult to reach enlightenment on any path if that is the definition you are using. I use paths as there are many variations in approaches and methods that fit under the broad umbrella term Buddhism (some of which I think would have left the historical Buddha scratching his head!) I believe that there are equally valid paths outside this umbrella. One needs to find that which fits them to have a chance for “success” or reach “completion” on any path. I think this personal fit is as important as the perceived intrinsic validity of any specific path. From an early age when I was first exposed to Buddhism there was something in it that didn’t resonate with me. However it does with others and that is wonderful. Clearly it has excellent methods for working with the mind and the jhanic states that all paths could benefit from. as far as Jung is concerned, while I think he promulgated some unique interesting views and showed openness to non Western concepts, I think the stuff he said about westerners not being able to follow these non western paths was absolute nonsense and to me reflects the darkness of his time and place.

Often trauma that has an emotional component is stored as xie qi in the body and it gets released in the practice. If you are lucky a brief reoccurrence of the emotion is triggered and then passes quickly particularly if you listen (ting) to it and then release (song) it. If you find yourself attaching to this emotion better to get up and do something else to distract the mind away from the attachment returning to the practice when the emotion has passed. While “spiritual bypassing” can be a thing, my experience is that it’s much more common for the acquired limited I self to grab a hold of the emotional experience and keep reliving it as a way to reinforce itself. To achieve stillness one needs to move beyond this identification, not easy as the I has many ways to pull you back. There is something called turning around the light in neidan that deals with this topic and involves the 5 phases/elements unifying their lights into one light. This does involve balancing the emotions associated with the elements including anger/wood/liver etc. in general practices add energy to whatever is preexisting in the body and mind. People being treated medically for clinical psychological issues should be very careful in doing any practices for this reason.

Yep. Watch a toddler try to walk. Looks like their center is at the Dan tian. Moves up to the chest in most people as they mature.

In South Asian medicine and self cultivation they have a subtle body system with 13 main nadis and 108 marma points with the nadis originating from a point just below the naval called the kanda. The maps of these are in many cases very similar to the East Asian subtle body maps. (e.g. hrt marma and laogong point in the palms quite similar in location, kanda similar to lower Dan tien). The knowledge of the marma points was developed in martial arts for treatment of injuries sustained in battle. Each point has a description of what happens when the point is injured, what system is affected and how to treat it (or if it is fatal!). while the subtle body maps look similar in South Asian systems to East Asian systems, in the South Asian tantric yoga systems the nadis are also known for conducting sound and the interaction between mudras (hand and body positions) and mantras are an important part of their yogic sadhana. This includes Nyasa Vidham which when used in cultivation is essentially a practice to become aware of the natural sounds residing in specific areas of the body represented by the sounds of the letters of the Sanskrit alphabet. These sounds constitute tools for extracting and gathering power from different parts of the body through the subtle currents, the chakras and the central nadi which is also known as the pathway of sound. south Asian systems also include a practice of acupuncture based on their own subtle body maps, but it’s not as widespread or as common as it is in East Asian medicine.