Cobie

Substituing you would get: 3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao at the origin of all things. 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao as the mother of all things. imo 'origin' and 'mother' both refer to the same, so makes no sense to me.

3. Invisible, was a name given to Tao … 4. Visible, was a name given to Tao … Does it say that anywhere else in the DDJ?

Yes I agree. Nobody can know; it’s 自然 (zi4 ran2) unknowable

start of ch. 25 by CD 1. 有物混成 2. 先天地生 3. 寂兮寥兮 4. 獨立而不改 5. 周行而不殆 6. 可以為天地母 7. 吾不知其名 8. 強字之曰"道" 1. There was a thing formed by chaos; 2. Before heaven and earth were born; 3. Soundless and formless; 4. Independent and stable; 5. Continuously cycling but never exhausted; 6. It may be the mother of heaven and earth. 7. I don't know its name. 8. I'm reluctant to call it "Tao".

Trying to find places in the DDJ with descriptions of Dao. Ch. 25: start of ch. 25 by Henricks (G) 又状虫成， 先天地生， 敚[糸禾]， 独立而不亥， 可以为天下母。 未智（知）其名， 字之曰道。 There is a form that developed from primordial chaos That was born before heaven and earth. Silent and still, it stands on its own and does not change. … It can be regarded as the mother of all under heaven. Not yet knowing its name, We refer to it as the Dao. start of ch. 25 by Henricks (MWD) 1. There was something formed out of chaos, 2. That was born before Heaven and Earth. 3. Quiet and Still! Pure and deep! 4. It stands on its own and does not change. 5. It can be regarded as the mother of Heaven and Earth. 6. I do not yet know its name: 7. I "style" it "the Way."

無 (wu2) and 有 (you3) did not have the meanings “invisible” and “visible”.

The original is in vertical lines without breaks. MWD ch. 1 道 可 道 也 非 恆 道 也 名 可 名 也 非 恆 名 也 无 名 萬 物 之 始 也 有 名 萬 物 之 母 也 故 恆 无 欲 也 以 觀 其 眇 恆 有 欲 也 以 觀 其 所 噭 兩 者 同 出 異 名 同 胃 玄 之 有 玄 眾 眇 之 門

I should have put my wuji/taiji post here! I have a feeling I am going to get the most facepalms ever recorded on TDB’s history. An all time winner of this thread.

The MWD is complete

It is a corruption of the original script. You can use punctuation in the English translation, or add a commentary.

The older MWD text has 萬物 (wan4 wu4). There’s no 天地 (tian1 di4) in ch. 1

There is no indication at all in the script that there is a pause here.

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I’m the chimera, the harmonious balance of opposites.

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That was fun, like on the old OD forum. @ChiDragon The next lines , 3 and 4, are special. Do you allow critical comments on these too?

My own translation is of course different, as I use another script (the much older MWD). https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/57074-ddj-ch1/?do=findComment&comment=1059176

It’s all logical “that can be” The morals that can be named, gainsay what’s usually practiced.

what’s usually practiced

gainsay

One of the meanings of 名 (ming2) was the verb ‘to name’ Classical Chinese did not have verb inflections for tense, person, or number. The translator can chose (named).

Classical Chinese did not have any articles. The translator can chose which one to put in order to create meaningful and smooth English (the). Classical Chinese did not distinguish between singular and plural. The translator can chose (morals).

You seem to have skipped a few of my posts, they make for another translation.