senseless virtue

The questions weren't for me, but I can give interim answers.

 

43 minutes ago, apdo said:

I see and as you say nothing available online for such a practice so I should try find real master in real life ?

 

If you want to train the Lower Dantian first, then absolutely yes. It's a closely guarded secret.

 

43 minutes ago, apdo said:

by the way isn't that similar to wai Dan  and marrow washing training???

 

What exactly is similar to Waidan and Marrow Washing?

 

Waidan is external alchemy as in consuming herbal and mineral pills. It can be very dangerous and requires painstaking supervision by masters who understand causality in supernatural level.

 

Marrow Washing is a very advanced level of practice which is supposed to be made possible by accomplishing Neigong first. Having this preparation transforms the muscles, fascia, sinews, tendons, and joints. Marrow washing then progresses into the more subtle tissues with the transformation of nerves, brain, and marrow. This pretty much is the precursor for attaining deep meditative concentration. I have seen some teachers offer "Marrow Washing Qigong", but these are fake teachings and marketing bullshit. The level of readiness needed for the real Marrow Washing is so high that there is no point of discussing its details or offering the training to the general public.

@Capeador1 What @Vajra Fist posted above is good place to start anew once you feel better or if the symptoms are prolonged. I would still urge for you to have patience and rest a week at least instead of seeking more active methods.

 

Damo Mitchell has a good reputation and actually knows what he teaches. If you are really interested in the internal work, then he is a trustworthy teacher you could look up and examine closer.

 

51 minutes ago, Sudhamma said:

MCO (both micro and macro) is an essential qi-development technique to clear blockages and qi flow to the 8 extraordinary meridians. But from what I read of your posting, perhaps your breathing is not in sync with your mental intent during mco causing a qi stagnation in your head. Somehow either you lost concentration or too much forcing of qi-flow into your head during your practice.

 

Are you making up stuff and wanting to sound smart?

 

The OP has had an injury, and he wouldn't benefit from any speculative and frankly very questionable Qigong theories that you propose. Such are what got him sick in the first place!

 

51 minutes ago, Sudhamma said:

The solution: 1. stop the use of MCO during your practice, just use natural abdominal breathing unforced and relaxed. During closing/ending the exercise (Sou gong), breathe in and with mental intent down to your dan tian, but focus the passage of your qi down to 'Forever Spring' Yongquan que. Do this either 3, 6 or 9 times.

 

It would be better if the OP just rested a while.

 

Besides, the missing caveat with this type of instructions is that it should be setting an extremely gentle intent just for a brief while and having no stable focusing at all.

1 hour ago, apdo said:

By the way may i know what you mean by rewiring exactly

 

I feel this should be answered by someone who really has done much Neigong.

 

@Earl Grey Would you like to share your insights and experiences about what is rewiring of Neigong?

 

Forget about fear and anxiety. You are only harming yourself by adding more speculation and emotional distress. As I said earlier: Calmness heals.

 

Think of it as a learning experience and be more careful about teachings from now on.

 

It usually takes a lot more effort and persistence when people get long lasting or severe symptoms. Also, their practice is different and clearly more risky.

 

You did relatively little of Chia practice and have very mild symptoms so far. People usually report much more severe issues when they post about Chia teachings around here. You were wise to stop at the first signs.

 

Have faith that all will turn well.

It's ok. Four days is not going to cause that severe illness as you fear.

 

Have your mind at peace and focus on ordinary and grounding activities: The discomfort will gradually dissipate within a week or two at most.

4 hours ago, Capeador1 said:

I have some fear, I do not want to spend many years with the energy stuck in my head, it is annoying and painful

 

How many days did you practice these Chia meditations?

Both Neidan style Neigong and martial Neigong accomplish the same rewiring.

 

The difference really is that martial Neigong also teaches Fajin and martial skills along the way.

If you want the Neidan style Neigong, then I've heard that Damo Mitchell and Robert Peng are the popular dogs right now.

 

If you want the martial Neigong, then I summon in @Earl Grey for more knowledgeable views about the opportunities 

What you are looking for is genuine Neigong that rewires the body if you want the true foundation. It will give you the capability to generate and issue electric Qi.

 

Xinyi, an internal martial art style, has produced excellent results for many people that are dedicated with Zhan Zhuang.

 

Dantian will turn up later after completing the Neigong because it's another process associated with deep meditation which is made easy by Neigong. Building the Dantian early on is possible, but it usually is much easier to have the foundation first. From what I've understood, jump-starting Dantian cultivation early is a closely kept secret that you might need to seek hard. The down-side is that going that route blocks martial development for a long time because physical rewiring cannot happen simultaneously.

Calmness of mind is healing.

 

Stop trying to improve the situation. It's more than likely that your mild symptoms will improve gradually once you leave the worrying mindset.

 

Don't do meditation or any other internal practice. These might only agitate the energy trapped in your head.

 

Meet people, exercise, eat healthily, walk in the nature, and enjoy ordinary life.

Simple and effective advice:

 

1) Stop practicing anything associated with Mantak Chia. This site has many stories of people hurt by practicing according to Chia's instructions.

 

2) Seek more ethical and reputable teachers who don't publish and instruct with misleading or otherwise dangerous "exercises". Don't be swayed by easy promises of attainment, but demand proof.

 

3) Scrutinize carefully your would-be teachers whether they have real patience and love for others. The alternative is that you lose money, time, and health.

1 hour ago, thelerner said:

A bit masculine for a cow year though.. maybe give a some eyelashes.  

 

So... would you rather have oxen and bulls in drag make-up?

 

I'm confused, where does milk come from then?? 

 

18 minutes ago, Trunk said:

I am looking into this issue further.

 

Awesome. Make buffalo drag cows great again!

The unmistakable sign that you have accomplished Dao through semen retention and Mantak Chia's sexual alchemy.

 

Spontaneous Qigong is iffy, and the unguided variant is especially susceptible to deviations. There are only few working approaches and a lot of dangers in impure spontaneous Qigong. The most important issue is the subtle exacerbation of emotional issues, which can in fact lead to severe mental health problems and worse health.

 

The main deal is that the proper spontaneous work should be a finite process. Impure spontaneous work will never halt, but may continue generating new movement for years because there is no real release of emotional and physical tensions, however genuine it might feel.

 

There are two general ways to stop spontaneous movements:

 

1. Calm mind and have a gentle thought to stop all internal and external movement.
2. Set your mind few meters beneath your feet and allow restless energy to exit downwards for few minutes.

There might be more particular solutions depending how the spontaneous movement was generated.

On 6/25/2021 at 3:45 AM, Gerard said:

Knock, knock...

 

WHERE IS THE BUFFALO! 

 

 

 

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gnu_meditate_levitate.png

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heckert_GNU_white.svg

 

 

Top secret:

 

 

A few comments on this great interview.

Buddhism has always adapted to new cultural context and accepted good innovations through the Mahasiddha masters' enlightened vision. Tantric methods aren't quintessentially Buddhist, but such training can make life and spiritual progress easier and more satisfying. You can see in the interview that in the Buddhist context energetic phenomena don't usually progress as predominately and physically as in Daoism whose adherents have made physical cultivation into highly sophisticated arts.

Then what are the essentials of Buddhism? Development of wisdom, all-inclusive heart (Bodhichitta), and meditative insight. The last in particular isn't featured in any other spiritual tradition that I know of.

 

 

Another remark, based on the interview:

 

31 minutes ago, rocala said:

Not really what I was referring to. I think that the writers had something akin to a flash of insight in mind.

 

Sorry, but I disagree and there's enough tangent to the topic to warrant an off-hand comment. The turning of heart is well to be examined from different perspectives.

 

18 minutes ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

any particular book you can recommend? 

 

The Holy Bible, New Testament in particular.

 

Liu Yousheng's magnificent book: Let the Radiant Yang Shine Forth: Lectures on Virtue

 

Books by Wang Fengyi are also excellent.

11 minutes ago, rocala said:

Are there similar references in other traditions?

 

Everywhere. Have you ever heard of Christianity, the Gospel and Passion of Christ, Christian martyrs, and the persecution of the early Church?

 

 

Wanting to do away with suffering is the usual reason why people enter the spiritual path. Later on it's mature spiritual wisdom when the practitioner realizes how enriching their personal hardships can be and that there's nothing to worry or wail about.

 

An update from June 13, 2021 excerpts chapter 8. It really makes clear that the true accomplishment of Neidan is not mundane by any measure.

 

---

 

Humans, born of heaven and earth, ultimately come from the single qi of primordial pure yang. This qi is the qi of great harmony. It is the limitless indivisible that fills all space.

Humans are sculpted by yin and yang, and thus our bodies of blood and flesh are born. Though this yin and this yang come after taiji, they are still true yin and true yang, free of dreg or residue, and still close to the primordial qi of the great harmony.

Once a person is born, one’s qi is constrained and one is deluded by external objects and phenomena. All of the yin and yang in one’s physical body transforms into the shen of cognition and perception; into the qi of breathing and movement; and into the jing of sex between husbands and wives. Then there is only yin but no yang. This qi cannot be used as a “medicinal ingredient,” so how could it then become the elixir?

It is clear that later heaven jing and qi are but dross; they are residual substances. Nevertheless, in cultivation one cannot but make use of them in order to enter the gate. But be that as it may, the formation of the elixir makes no use of them whatsoever. Thus: those who use that which has shape and form cannot create the grain of golden elixir that is empty and nonexistent.

If a person cultivates hsing by vainly refining his or her temperament, and, in the cultivation of ming, refines only his or her flesh-and-blood life, it cannot be said an elixir cannot be created. Yet, even if such a person does create an elixir, it will only be an illusory elixir, and he or she will plummet into the dens of foxes and into the ranks of snakes and rats. Unable to avoid angering the gods, struck down by thunderclaps, he or she will never again be able to obtain a human body. How is this not tragic?

Outstanding people fully recognize that the great way of the golden elixir is achieved via clear, numinous qi. But clear, numinous qi does not return to us of its own accord, so one must make use of the true yin and true yang within one’s own body, and then one will be able to summon this qi to come and gather. When the ancients spoke of the “the homogenous two-eight substances,” they were speaking of true yin and true yang.

It is especially important to know that primordial qi is fundamentally without any markers that can be searched for, and that it has no location that can be guessed at. How, then, does one seek it and glimpse it? Only by this: it is at the moment when the true yin and true yang in one’s own body become active that primordial qi has entered the body. One must then seize and take charge of the numinous mercury and yin jing in one’s own body, and allow them to naturally congeal into the elixir.

An ancient immortal thus said: “Those who cultivate the Dao must first know that there are two heavens and earths, and two yins and yangs. Only then can one begin the work.”

What is that which is called “two heavens and earths?”

None other than prior heaven and later heaven.

What is referred to by “two yins and yangs?”

It is like this: when one is meditating, one must have something within the later heaven physical body that can be relied upon as a starting point. Well, exhalations and inhalations are yin and yang. Yin and yang originate in the qi of oneness; when the qi of oneness dissipates, it becomes yin and yang—in and out breaths are of ordinary yin and ordinary yang. So, when students meditate, they must first regulate the external breath, in order to elicit the primordial breath of Realized Humans.

In the harmonizing of the external breath, in the beginning one must give priority to intention. Mencius said: “Will, it is the commander of qi.” An ancient immortal said: “If one wishes to complete the cultivation of the nine turns, one must first refine the self and manage the heart.” It is thus clear that rightening the heart and making one’s intent sincere is the basis of cultivation.

To regulate breathing, one lets one’s eyes observe the center of the dantian, and lets the breath descend into yinqiao. Lift the qi of yinqiao so that it enters the yellow court; then, use the breath to cause the yin jing in the purple palace to descend so that it meets the dantian. All of this involves ordinary yin and ordinary yang.

After doing this for some time, yin jing and yang qi will blend together and congeal within the earthly cauldron of the dantian. Naturally, yin essence will transform into the essence of the jing of true yang, and ordinary qi will transform into the qi of true yin. Vigorous and flourishing, they will fill one’s entire body. All of this involves true yin and true yang; primordial qi is not far off.

All of you should know that primordial qi is fundamentally formless and unconditioned. That which is vigorous and flourishing is true yin and true yang; it is not the universe’s primordial qi. If one refers to true yin and true yang as though they were the universe’s primordial qi, one has strayed far from the Dao.

Know this: when, from within the vigorous and flourishing, there comes that which is placid, tranquil, still, and serene, this marks the returning of primordial qi. It is not separate from yin and yang; yet, it does not mingle with yin and yang.

My teacher instructed us that, each time we sat to meditate, it was necessary to have an experience of peacefulness, naturalness, and contentment, as only in this way could we glimpse our original faces. We could not become fixated upon primordial qi and see it as some kind of object. This was the correct way to practice.

When my teacher transmitted these mysteries, it could be said that she fully revealed the profound essentials, as though she dug out her own heart and liver to put on display for her students. Students, you must really put this into practice. Be like Dong Zhongshu, who said: “Be straight upon your path and do not scheme for personal benefits; understand the way and do not fuss over gain and loss.” This is the correct way to practice.

As for whether or not there will be results: do not expect results, do not become elated or despondent because you gain or lose. This is how you approach the Way.

20 hours ago, Romeo said:

I want to have  better sex. But I would also like to learn how to transmute the sexual energy as well.

 

Want to have better sex? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

Want to learn how to transmute the sexual energy? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

If you try to jump in energy aspect first, especially in sexual activities, then you are trying to bypass important preliminaries that you would have to address anyway. Tantric practices you mentioned earlier are particularly sensitive to the degree of your heart's openness. Having a free and open heart would also make it much less likely to get snared by devious side paths and training mistakes.

 

There are preliminary practices in all complete traditions worldwide that give emphasis on being humble, charitable, unselfish, and caring in every turn as a part of their ethical attitude and conduct requirements. You might want to read what Jesus spoke in the New Testament about loving others, forgiving, and turning the other cheek for the most profound and immediate lessons available to the Western audience.

 

On 5/25/2021 at 1:58 PM, Cleansox said:

Because you want to transmute it before it becomes sexual energy. 

 

On 5/26/2021 at 4:49 AM, Creation said:

And since you asked about transmutation, as soon as your jing mobilizes to pursue a base desire, it can't be transmuted, leaving it in your system is like leaving muddy, putrid water pooling up in your home.

 

These two posters that I quoted are hereby declared 100% verified sexperts who know their preheaven and postheaven jing!

 

Here is a timely short excerpt from an upcoming internal alchemy book that refers to the transmutation process and sexual functions leaking energy:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/translation-of-ten-discourses-on-daoist-alchemy?viewupdates=1

 

Except from Chapter 7, "Primordial Jing and Primordial Shen" (italics in the text can't be reproduced here):

We need to examine the principles that underlie “refining jing to transform it into qi,” in order to be sure about what “jing” means in the context of this work. Many people misunderstand this concept, and as a result they conflate the later heaven jing related to reproduction and primordial jing. Because later heaven jing has already turned into a substance with a physical form, it is no longer possible to directly transform it into qi. It is already “old,” and therefore cannot be used in inner alchemy. If anybody states that this unclear form of jing can be transformed into some kind of qi, he or she is pointing to a side door leading towards a crooked path. Even a worldly scientist with no knowledge of Daoism can tell that this is impossible, because the principles behind such a practice are illogical.

We have to distinguish ordinary jing and primordial jing, but there is a somewhat tricky point we need to be clear about in order to do so. The jing that is refined in inner alchemy is primordial jing. Primordial jing is a relatively subtle form of energy or sustenance found in the human body, and it needs be made to transform into qi, which is an even more subtle and rarefied form of energy. This process is in some ways akin to cooking—when we put ingredients into a pot and add heat, the ingredients will start to steam, meaning that the substances that had been in a liquid state are turning into gases. The tricky point where this analogy breaks down lies in the fact that that primordial jing is formless; it is only akin to a fluid, but it not actually something in the liquid state of matter. Similarly, qi is merely analogous to something in the gaseous state, because it is something that flows throughout the body, but it is not actually a gas. Nevertheless, we use this analogy because when “fire” (which represents the effects created by consciousness) and “wind” (which represents the effects created by the breath) are regulated in tandem, jing can transform into qi, which means that jing transmutes into a more sublime form of energy. That is the meaning of “refining jing to transform it into qi.”

Even though primordial jing is distinct from later heaven, corporeal jing, the two are nevertheless closely related. For this reason, if we are to practice internal alchemy, it is necessary to moderate our desires, which means reducing the exhaustion of our sexual energies as much as possible. What principle underlies this statement? Primordial jing is the basic energy of life. If it is called to do so, it will fulfill its function by turning into the body’s sexual fluids and energies. Turning into reproductive jing is the route that primordial jing commonly takes, and as this happens it gets used up. Thus, if we constantly consume our reproductive essences, at the same time our primordial jing will constantly transform into corporeal jing, which means that we will lack the basic ingredient for the alchemical work of “transforming jing to turn it into qi.”

Conversely, if we sublimate and refine primordial jing before it has undergone the process of turning into post heaven, physical jing, it will become a higher level energy. Simultaneously, that change will reduce the strength of the impetus that pushes primordial jing to go in the direction of becoming bodily jing. The natural result of this process is to transform sexual energies as well as reduce the rate at which they are consumed; both outcomes are closely intertwined.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/translation-of-ten-discourses-on-daoist-alchemy?viewupdates=1

 

The rough draft of chapter 7 is finished! Below is a brief excerpt where Professor Ge presents a plainspoken explanation of an internal alchemy teaching that tends to elicit quite a bit of concern, confusion, and even obsession amid those who are curious about Daoist meditation (especially the young fellas).

As I start on chapter 8, I humbly any supporters who belong to Facebook groups or message boards where other members might be interested in reading "Ten Discourses on Daoist Alchemy" to please consider sharing a link to this page. The rough draft of chapter 7 is 15,000+ words long and took over 50 hours to complete. This means I've still got another ~200 hours of translation left to do, and *then* I've got to hire a proofreader! Still a long way to go. I thank you in advance for considering spreading the word.

_______________________

Except from Chapter 7, "Primordial Jing and Primordial Shen" (italics in the text can't be reproduced here):

We need to examine the principles that underlie “refining jing to transform it into qi,” in order to be sure about what “jing” means in the context of this work. Many people misunderstand this concept, and as a result they conflate the later heaven jing related to reproduction and primordial jing. Because later heaven jing has already turned into a substance with a physical form, it is no longer possible to directly transform it into qi. It is already “old,” and therefore cannot be used in inner alchemy. If anybody states that this unclear form of jing can be transformed into some kind of qi, he or she is pointing to a side door leading towards a crooked path. Even a worldly scientist with no knowledge of Daoism can tell that this is impossible, because the principles behind such a practice are illogical.

We have to distinguish ordinary jing and primordial jing, but there is a somewhat tricky point we need to be clear about in order to do so. The jing that is refined in inner alchemy is primordial jing. Primordial jing is a relatively subtle form of energy or sustenance found in the human body, and it needs be made to transform into qi, which is an even more subtle and rarefied form of energy. This process is in some ways akin to cooking—when we put ingredients into a pot and add heat, the ingredients will start to steam, meaning that the substances that had been in a liquid state are turning into gases. The tricky point where this analogy breaks down lies in the fact that that primordial jing is formless; it is only akin to a fluid, but it not actually something in the liquid state of matter. Similarly, qi is merely analogous to something in the gaseous state, because it is something that flows throughout the body, but it is not actually a gas. Nevertheless, we use this analogy because when “fire” (which represents the effects created by consciousness) and “wind” (which represents the effects created by the breath) are regulated in tandem, jing can transform into qi, which means that jing transmutes into a more sublime form of energy. That is the meaning of “refining jing to transform it into qi.”

Even though primordial jing is distinct from later heaven, corporeal jing, the two are nevertheless closely related. For this reason, if we are to practice internal alchemy, it is necessary to moderate our desires, which means reducing the exhaustion of our sexual energies as much as possible. What principle underlies this statement? Primordial jing is the basic energy of life. If it is called to do so, it will fulfill its function by turning into the body’s sexual fluids and energies. Turning into reproductive jing is the route that primordial jing commonly takes, and as this happens it gets used up. Thus, if we constantly consume our reproductive essences, at the same time our primordial jing will constantly transform into corporeal jing, which means that we will lack the basic ingredient for the alchemical work of “transforming jing to turn it into qi.”

Conversely, if we sublimate and refine primordial jing before it has undergone the process of turning into post heaven, physical jing, it will become a higher level energy. Simultaneously, that change will reduce the strength of the impetus that pushes primordial jing to go in the direction of becoming bodily jing. The natural result of this process is to transform sexual energies as well as reduce the rate at which they are consumed; both outcomes are closely intertwined.

It turns out that Oneness Movement had been outed in a large police investigation few years ago. Another would-be guru pretender had decided to turn promises of heaven into a stable source of revenue.

 

A few years ago I had discovered some very critical accounts about Oneness Movement money collection practices and their deeksha (aka "Oneness blessing") initiations, and I had been very skeptical how one of their proposed unorthodox yoga methods, becoming a "cosmic being" and staying in prolonged and seemingly uncomfortable trance, could possibly help cleanse an individual's karma.

 

Out of respect for anyone's positive belief about the Oneness Movement spiritual practices, I'll say that these negative claims are difficult to prove.

 

---

 

 

Some fairly recent news about Oneness Movement tax avoidance, money laundering, and political corruption to cover land-grabs:

 

https://www.opindia.com/2019/10/kalki-bhagwan-income-tax-raids/

 

https://theprint.in/india/kalki-bhagavan-guru-started-as-lic-clerk-undisclosed-income-500-crore/309158/

 

https://openthemagazine.com/features/the-cult-of-kalki-bhagavan/

 

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/2019/11/09/mystic-and-the-moolah.html

 

 

---

 

 

Wikipedia's page on the leader Vijaykumar Naidu aka "Kalki Bhagavan" is no less flattering (remember to check the sources for authenticity):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki_Bhagawan

 

I consider it to be a very serious red flag that anyone declares themselves to be an Avatar or God incarnate. All the reported issues with excess wealth on the other hand testify of ordinary samsaric greed above all.

 

His organization also participated in the apocalyptic year 2012 scare mongering, for goodness sake!

 

 

---

 

 

I haven't been able to vet all these sources throughout, but they offer very critical glimpses into the Oneness Movement's conduct and spiritual projects. Be mindful that some of the links on the pages are expired.

 

http://deekshadanger.weebly.com/freddy-speaks-out.htm

 

http://deekshadanger.weebly.com/links.html

 

http://deekshadanger.weebly.com/deeksha-black-tantra.html

 

https://jonathanevatt.com/the-dark-side-of-the-oneness-movement-1773/

 

https://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/deeksha_oneness.html

 

https://mortentolboll.weebly.com/a-critique-of-the-indian-oneness-movement-and-its-use-of-western-success-coaching.html

 

 

---

 

 

Select Quotes from the above Sources

 

To me the most alarming issue is about the practices themselves. The Oneness Movement claims to give authentic deeksha initiations that connect to God and to teach how to become a "cosmic being" by remaining in an unlimited trance.

 

Excerpted from Why I ended my Involvement with the Oneness Movement by Christian Opitz (Neuroscience PhD):

 

Manipulation

In 2004, so many Western deeksha givers reported the enormous peak experiences that were common then in Golden City. In early 2005 when I did the 21 day course, these experiences no longer occurred. We were told that Bhagavan had decided to no longer “give” them, because they were distracting from true enlightenment. Sounded very reasonable. All of this fostered the myth that Bhagvan has the ability to simply switch on and off such effects of deeksha, that he could influence a person’s consciousness to a degree that seemed unheard of.

 

From all I know now, it seems clear that in 2004, there was a psychedelic substance used in an herbal preparation that was given to participants in the courses, which really caused many if not most of the peak experiences. Before this preparation called leyham was introduced, no peak experienced occurred in early 2004 in a course where participants were promised enlightenment in five days. Wanting to appease the disappointed folks, Bhagavan invited everybody for another free course. This time leyham was given for the first time and people had incredible experiences of cosmic oneness, blood-boiling love etc. These usually occurred after taking leyham. Whatever this stuff was, it also caused severe nausea and vomiting.

 

But the Ayurveda experts that I have asked told me in unison that leyham is about as gentle as it gets, it is given to babies shortly after birth. Whatever they gave to people in Golden City was not traditional leyham. Nausea and vomiting are known reactions to alkaloids with psychedelic properties. Some people could not handle the leyham and had pyschotic episodes, even after leaving Golden City, they had screaming fits at the airport, which almost caused problems for the OM with the police. I know this from first hand reports from several people who were there. In 2005, when Bhagavan did no longer “give” peak experiences, we were told that some people had gone into such high samadhis [trance states], they had been dysfunctional at the airport. Simply not true. The people who had psychotic episodes were accompanied to the airport to get them on the plane without causing trouble. After that, they received no help, no support from the OM and their stories where changed into another PR pitch that helped to foster the myth of Bhagavan’s ability to just give people incredible high states of consciousness.

 

Some people believe drugs can help to open doors in consciousness, others believe they cause more harm than good. But even the strongest supporters of psychdelics I have met ... agree that to give drugs to people without their consent and then to claim that the experiences were due to the grace of a master is a serious breach of integrity.

 

A more recent manifestation of manipulation by the OM, one that prompted me to leave this movement for good, are the changes of the term deeksha to oneness blessing and the change of the message towards prosperity and success. We were told that there were problems with the term deeksha in the Western world, that many people thought it was a cult because of this term. I have never found this to be true. Countless people believe the OM is a cult because of the prices they charge, if THAT was changed, the OM would really do something for its reputation....

 

The real reason for both these changes, the change of the message to success and the term deeksha to oneness blessing has a completely different reason that the OM apparently does not want to tell people openly. Tony Robbins demanded these changes of the OM and agreed to bring all his famous friends and clients into the OM if they follow his directive. The dasas were obviously coached by Tony Robbins, at a recent course in Golden City, they sounded like Western-style success coaches. Great idea, take a bunch of monks who took vows of renunciation as teenagers and let them deliver a message of success in the world…but I am digressing. So the OM is obviously willing to simply change what they tell people, because a famous person promises them more famous people to join. This sounds like a politician campaigning, not like a spiritual movement. At least they should have the honesty to tell people, “hey, we thought it was a great idea for Tony Robbins to decide our message.” But no, they decided to give some reasons they simply made up, pretending to address real problems with these changes.

 

Is it worth it? Is the limelight of fame, the endorsement of celebrities really worth the discarding of any principle of integrity and honesty?...

 

 

Freddy Nielsen left the Oneness Movement after being one of Kalki Bhagavan's closest disciples for 15 years. Now he speaks out:

 

You have been sharing a lot about your own experince. What has been Madeleine´s experience and reactions?

 

Freddy: Madeleine was among the few Westerners I met who behaved and believed in Bhagavan like a dasa (Bhagavan’s monks and nuns). Bhagavan had asked her to have his ashram as a base, from where she could travel the world and spread his deekshas and teaching. She wanted most of all to become a “cosmic being”. Bhagavan has said that a cosmic is someone who has become occupied by gods and has become completely one with the consciousness of Amma & Bhagavan. They must live in celibacy, many of them hardly ever talk. They sit in some kind of trance most of the time and just pray for others. Many of them cannot even go to the toilet or eat. They need to be taken care of as a very old or very handicapped person. Bhagavan said he needed minimum 8000 people to become Cosmic Beings in order for him to be able to save the world.

Like many gurus, Bhagavan cannot tolerate when followers don’t agree with him or disobey. He is narcissistic and controlling. All this has been my experience during 15 years of being one of his closest disciples.

What did he say about other gurus?

 

Freddy: It was rare that he spoke nice or approving words about other gurus or masters. He regularly ridiculed them – sometimes even in a rude way; or at least emphasizing that he is infinitely more powerful than they are. They only spoke about enlightenment. At the best they also made some efforts to give people enlightenment. Bhagavan said he is the only one that can make it happen and actually give it. The very best of these masters could give enlightenment to one or a few disciples at most. He said this about Ramana; however, some years later he had changed his mind. He now said that Ramana did not give enlightenment to anyone, what he gave was not full enlightenment.

 

In Bhagavan’s opinion, most spiritual teachers were not actually enlightened (Osho for example), or had an inferior kind of enlightenment that should not be call enlightenment at all. The dasas has much, much higher states than Buddha, Ramana etc., he maintains.

 

Before my process in June 2004, he told me that he, in my process, was going to give me a permanent state that was 100 times higher than what Ramana Maharshi had.

 

Someone recently wrote to me that he had heard Bhagavan say in a darshan that Ramana was not 100% enlightened (I do not know if this information is correct).

 

 

Does Bhagavan use Tantrics to get powers?

 

The first question that sprang to mind was, "where does this energy actually come from?" And that question opened the door to a vast science, underlying the phenomenon of the transmission of energy ...often in the guise of a Divine connection. I came to understand that most "gurus", whether legitimate or not, come to work with a Tantric practitioner, in the course of their preparation to hold extremely high levels of energy and transmit it to others. In India, this is virtually standard-procedure and an important stop along the way on the inner path to becoming "a guru."

 

In India, the sacred science of Tantra is an ancient spiritual art, focused in the manifestation of energy and the altering of material circumstances, through highly exacting rituals and vibrational formulas. In its purest form, White Tantra, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the X-rated reputation the word "tantra" has garnered in the West. The work with a White Tantric practitioner serves to fortify the energy field of the would-be "guru" and helps to turn him/her into a virtual force-field, through which the transmission of "shaktipat" or "deeksha" may then be possible.

 

These Divinely-focused and incredibly dedicated Tantrics, taught in the ancient oral tradition by their fathers and grandfathers over thousands of years, are amongst the true angels of this world. Unbeknownst to most of us, they are tucked-away in India, performing their timeless rituals ...and secretly "making-miracles" for us all ...and for the planet we share ...during these challenging times.

 

When the services of a White Tantric practitioner cannot be obtained, or in cases of calculated, money-minded empire-building, the aspiring "guru" will often turn to Black Tantric practitioners, (the Indian equivalent of black-magic) who are hired to work behind-the-scenes to supply the energy that fuels the organization ...for vast sums of money. When the exorbitant fees of these Black Tantrics start to escalate over time and cannot be paid as demanded, the project often begins to veer out of control.

 

Where one might naturally assume that an absolute fortune must be sitting in the "guru's" coffers with which to complete building projects and other un-met commitments, in fact, the cupboards are bare. The situation becomes desperate. And suddenly, many of the goings-on surrounding the "guru" become puzzling and don't add up. According to the information I received, this could well explain the phenomena I'd observed and the other reports from South India that just didn't make sense.

 

At the same time, you might ask yourself "what's the harm in it, as far as I'm concerned? Energy is being transmitted through "deeksha." That has to be good. Right?" This question opened up an entirely different avenue of exploration. And the information I uncovered in delving into it, proved to be equally fascinating.

 

When a "guru" establishes a connection with a spiritual aspirant, through the imparting of energy ...often accompanied by a secret mantra ...a spiritual cord is established through which, in theory, the "guru" can continue to feed the student with energy. This is part of the timeless tradition of "guru" and disciple. And when practiced with integrity, it can supply the aspiring student with an abundant energy-boost that can greatly accelerate the process of spiritual transformation. It is for this reason that so many feel guided to seek to affiliate with an Indian "guru", to receive "deeksha" or "shaktipat", or simply to be in the physical presence of such a one, whose vibration is extremely high.

 

What we often don't suspect, is that the spiritual cord which the "guru" establishes with his student through these practices, is able to carry energy both ways. When the "guru" has dubious connections himself, or has motives that are rooted in ego and spiritual empire-building, the cord can be used to direct the energy-flow the other way and literally "vacuum-out" the unsuspecting student, vibrationally. This could explain why, after being in the presence of certain "gurus", what may have started-out feeling quite nice, suddenly doesn't feel good at all.

 

Initially, in these unscrupulous practices, the student is given a little dose of energy. At first. In this way, any doubts or concerns one may have had are soothed. And we become open ...and trusting. It is only later that the tap is re-directed, and the energy begins to flow the other way ...from the student to the "guru." In cases where the integrity of the "guru" and his organization is further compromised by an affiliation with a Black Tantric practitioner, the unsuspecting student's energy is actually sucked through the "guru" and filtered directly to feed the Black Tantric individuals who stand behind the entire "spiritual" super-structure.

 

In cases where certain individuals have received an initiation and are declared to be qualified to be giving so-called "deeksha" energy to others, a spiritual cord has been well established within them, to the extent that they would be able to function as mediums for the guru. And through these people, the energy of others can be drained. In this way, the insidious practice of energy piracy can be practiced clandestinely by certain so-called Indian "gurus", while couched in lovely, believable-sounding spiritual jargon calculated to ensnare the hearts ...and wallets ...of sincere and financially affluent seekers in the West.

 

It turns out that this is a practice that is actually quite widespread in India ...and elsewhere. And according to the information I uncovered, this could well explain the mysterious symptoms so many have been reporting. Who would ever have suspected it?

Traditional Flying Phoenix Instructor Certification Requirements are available in this thread on Alchemical Garden:

https://forum.alchemical.garden/threads/18/post-420

 

Another particular post contains my "best of" collection of the various advanced insights Sifu Terry has publicly shared about Flying Phoenix practice throughout the years:

https://forum.alchemical.garden/threads/18/post-37

 

@ilumairen It seems you are completely ignoring the actual and very serious issue about the Ausar debacle in favor of grasping straw man arguments in that thread which Rene started and which had an entirely flawed and biased premise. Now it's time to take three steps backwards and start seeing the entire big picture.

 

I will try to be clear, but acknowledging the Ausar's scam and associated malice has been a consistent issue with this mod squad.

 

Before Sean took over there were or had been three big issues that were rocking the board, from more global problems to more localized:

 

1. toxic alt-right friendly atmosphere
2. a freaky astral sex cult
3. Ausar's scam and attempted character assassination of Terry Dunn

 

Listing the same items in terms of acute seriousness and predatory behavior:

 

1. Ausar's scam and attempted character assassination of Terry Dunn
2. a freaky astral sex cult
3. toxic alt-right friendly atmosphere

 

The problem then is that there was a reverse relation between the danger and its visibility on the board like in real life true criminal activity thrives under neglect and the lack of watchfulness. It's furthermore explained explained by the fact that Sifu Terry, Earl Grey, and even myself, we all spent a lot of hours in countering both the orchestrated and spontaneous disinformation and malice initiated by Ausar. There were many people who were unwittingly playing to Ausar's fiddle and for a while it seemed like every bitter voice suddenly came out of the woods to have unfair jabs at Sifu Terry, Grandmaster Doo Wai, the Bak Fu Pai family arts, or the Flying Phoenix system. You have to realize that Ausar was asking a lot of money ($10,000) from TDB members and had actually been successful in duping some gullible people by selling fabricated and dangerous meditations. It was reported that the duped individuals would "see entities" after those meditations, which suggests that the inauthentic meditations caused some degree of neurological damage.

 

In this context Rene's initial post was seriously mistaken and misleading:

 

Quote

Please take care in deciding who's opinions are welcome here and who's are not.

If there are clear violations of the TOS, do what you must, swiftly and without hesitation.

But when a call may be more subjective - to protect this or that (idea or member) - kindly pause to consider if what you feel needs protection in the first place - actually does.

 

She simply didn't have much clue what was going on.

 

Amusingly, it wasn't too long ago that I again had to write a rebuke against Ausar when his "meditations" were offered around here without any precautions, but thelerner, in his moderator capability, was really lenient and clearly not understanding the issue in its heart. It took a lot bitching from me before he and Trunk reacted at all. Do the mods exist to enforce polite rules and social etiquette, or are the policies and mods here to keep this place actually safe from all types of predators and disinformation that could lead to people getting hurt? I have seen few of the mods and some other people opine that even this type of mistakes can be good for wisdom, but I find such sentiments disheartening and alarming in the context of overall wisdom and ethical integrity.

 

tl;dr: Some people did a huge work for busting the nuts of a crazy scammer and his ignorant puppets, but in the end they get no recognition but misunderstanding and disdain.