MIchael80

2 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1

 

Here, the Buddha himself had also stated that virtuous action progressively leads to the foremost, that is enlightenment. This teaching is exemplified by Rajini Menon, who had no Gurus or spiritual masters, and only had adherence to her inner conscience as a moral guide for thought, speech and action.

 

Yes, the Buddha had also advocated a variety of methods like mindfulness practice, vipassana , meditation for people who are inclined to such practices . But that does not take anything from his saying that virtuous behavior is potent enough to lead to the foremost, which is nirvana or enlightenment.

 

  I am also interested in the spiritual and social implication of this teaching as it would mean that atheists and agnostics and those of the LGBTQ spectrum, who  adhere to values and virtuous conduct, are not spiritually degenerate as some theists put them to be.

 

Human beings are not capable of wholesome virtuous behaviour. Only after a good amount of spiritual practices and inner transformation is there a slight dawning of such conduct.

Before,  there is only behaviour based on trauma, karma, social conditioning etc.

7 hours ago, freeform said:

Different traditions work differently - and the Jhannas are interpreted completely differently from one tradition to the next.

 

From the traditions I’ve come across the Jhannas are both meditative states and attainments - in that to ‘attain’ the Jhanna certain permanent transformations occur. These are transformations that are both on the level of consciousness and physical/physiological transformations. Commonly one enters the Jhanna state maaaany times, over a long period of time before one attains that level of Jhanna.

 

What Jhanna means seems quite flexible. The people I’ve come across consider the Jhannas almost impossible to attain. For instance there are only a handful of people on earth at this time who have achieved anything above the 4th Jhanna. Each individual that has attained 4th Jhanna and above is known because they start to resonate within a certain realm that is interconnected. Curiously it’s not only Buddhists that achieve these - there are Daoists, Hindus and Christians too - though they might not call it Jhanna - they’ve attained it.

 

If you read the account of some people online though, they seem to enter and move through all the Jhannas after a weekend workshop.

Hi ! 

Are people who have attained (in the way you spoke about  ) the 4th Jhannas or higher in the public? 

All the best 

Michael 

2 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Bedeutet das, dass sie drei Methoden lehren?

Ein nördliches, yuxianisches Pai und ein Wuliu-Pai?

They teach 4 methods. 

Yuxian pai 

Wuliu pai northern method and southern method 

Method of the first emperors (only for a few select teachers)

On 16.12.2021 at 7:41 PM, Shadow_self said:

Hello all

 

I am looking for the names of healers who can potentially treat cancer.

 

There is no concern regards location or cost

 

You are welcome to PM me

 

Many thanks!

Dorothy Rowe    of distanceenergywork.com 

Kristin Kirk   of Kristinkirk.com

2 hours ago, Cleansox said:

I practice putting on appropriate clothes. 

It's an old trick handed down through generations in my family. 

That is oral tradition! .... you are not allowed to write that down.  😂

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

I honestly think when it comes to these major polarities ida and pingala really are talking about the same concept as yin and yang:

 

Ida is on the left side and called the lunar nadi. It is associated with feminine energy, active at night and contain water properties. Pingala is on the right side and is called the solar or the sun nadi. It is associated with masculine energy, active during the day and contains fire properties. 

 

But I fully respect you wanting to come at it from a purely Daoist perspective. I particularly resonate with the daoist descriptions of dantians, jing qi and Shen etc. I just happen to like the Ida/pingala concept to clarify duality. 

The Tamil siddhas have ida and pingala (which is sun and moon) and also the fire and water channel (which is what daoists call the mco) ... both Yin and Yang systems must be worked on. 😊

Preheaven/alchemical mco is different. 

12 minutes ago, freeform said:

The emphasis on sitting for long periods sounds right though.
 

Next time I see my Burmese teacher, I will need to be sat for 72hrs in absorption if I’m to continue getting instruction from him. Which is not a problem at this stage.

 

I remember a few months ago on the forum someone reporting of their breakthrough with alchemy… they described the process they used - which sounded completely made up… but then they also explain the sitting in stillness for 12hrs a day for a period of 9 months I think.

 

Which made me laugh because they clearly achieved samadhi as a result of the sitting and despite the made up alchemy process… (though I think the member might have understood their samadhi experience to be some sort of awakening or enlightenment).

72 hours in samadhi!!???? Wow !! 😲😲

My deepest respect! 🙏🙏

Just being in samadhi or "doing" some alchemical work there?

Any idea what instructions you are getting after that? (Just in general)

13 hours ago, chaosbananaman said:

Had a talk with someone really advanced where they mentioned that at high levels of Nei dan, Wai dan actually becomes an integral part of the practice. 

Working with mercury, consumption of metal and minerals. Obviously, this only happens when your body is prepared and you have built up your energetic system to the point that you could go through with it without any detriment to the body. It also happens under strict supervision of the teacher. From my understanding, these metals are charged through the emission of the teacher to cause certain effects in the body of the student who consumes it.  

 

But i was wondering if something like this really is necessary.  Seems a little dumb that i need to consume things to help me achieve new levels in my cultivation. There is also the consideration of just how safe this kind of thing is.

 

I know there are many high level Yoga and Buddhist systems that work with external alchemy as well. Especially with compounds like Mercury. But i always figured that the only thing you really need is you and your body. Any thoughts? 

 

 

Classically these external elixirs were often used by yogis to prolong life and thereby having more time to practice, to ward of disease and to deepen transformation. 

If you use chi it is also external and you bring it into your body through certain practices. 

While one can do a lot of alchemical stuff the original external elixir (wai dan aka philosophers stone) is made from mercury (cinnabar). It can be detoxed and made into something divine.

The metals are not charged (but can be) they are brought through the alchemical process and so they become the golden elixir (aka philosophers stone).

From my experience it very much supports cultivation greatly....gives a strong boost but one should be very careful. 

There are safe ways to use it ... like wearing the white stone around your neck or putting it into water and drinking that water.

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Sure. So I learned the inner smile/healing sounds from Mantak Chia's book. It was presented as a warm up to the main point of the book. So I did it and was surprised to experience all sorts of suppressed emotions from way back in my past. I began to remember things that I had totally forgotten about from when I was a very young child, though mostly negative stuff. Even though one is meant to do a few repetitions in each organ, what I began to notice from the practice sort of led to it becoming my main practice for a few years. 

     For example the Kidneys are said to be related to the emotion of fear. When I would do the inner smile/healing sound for the Kidneys, I began to not only remember childhood trauma that I had totally forgotten but actually feel the feeling that I had experienced as a child when it happened. Or if I did it for the Liver old long forgotten anger related issues would be remembered and the feeling that I felt as I experienced them as a child would reemerge. 

    So what was the real world effect of this? Well as I had just mentioned I had experienced some trauma as a child, an abusive environment which unsurprisingly (as I was to see from the practice) led me to being married to a very controlling and abusive person. After I had started doing this practice for a while her treatment of me no longer seemed "normal" but instead it seemed toxic. This eventually led to me leaving her. I had been with her for eight years to that point and a little after a year of doing the inner smile/healing sounds I left her. 

    The example of getting out of a bad marriage might be my most extreme example but to me what was most interesting was the insights into myself that I saw from going deep into each organ. I was see latent mental patterns and emotions that were operating under the surface that had been influencing me without me even being aware. In addition to this there were other physical health benefits. At this point my vision had begun to get a little blurry and after having done a modified version of the Liver inner smile/healing sound my vision improved. 

   I know this is a brief summary but hopefully it encompasses some of my experiences with this practice. 

 

Do you still practice it?

21 minutes ago, freeform said:

Is a river motivated to reach the ocean?

It’s not a motivation… it’s just what happens as you continue to actualise your original spirit through all layers of existence.

 

At a certain stage you essentially ‘enter the stream’ meaning you’re carried by this process and whether in this lifetime or within the next few you have no real choice in the direction your soul’s path takes.
 

These attainments are not goals… they’re just markers to indicate what happens along the path of this process.

 

After realisation comes step by step ‘actualisation’. A process that transforms every aspect of who you are at every layer from the material to the spiritual… if that’s where your tradition takes you.

Realisation is not ‘entering the stream’ - it’s much earlier in the process - and for many it’s a big ‘test’ as this is when a portal for the accelerated fruiting of ones deepest karma opens.

 

The direction your process takes depends largely on the root of the causation chains behind your karma - ignorance, aversion or clinging… (or a combination).

 

That’s why realisation, in many traditions is considered the start of spiritual cultivation. This is where you can begin to work on dismantling the root of your karmic entanglements… but equally you can easily be carried off by them - particularly if you leave a tradition or don’t have a teacher.

Beautifully put. ❤❤❤

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

Different traditions see things differently. Alchemical traditions I’ve come across don’t see things the same way as what I call Temple Daoists see things. No heavenly buroceatics

 

Yeah - in my tradition Earthly immortal doesn’t mean physically immortal (weirdly).

 

It means your spirit becomes entangled with the earthly plane… you become a sort of earth spirit. I’ve heard people talk of ‘elementals’ or ‘devas’… something along those lines.
 

At the later stages of immortality you are able to keep or create a physical body (or multiple physical forms) and discreate them at will… so you’re sort of physically immortal - but not bound to the earthly plane - you come and go according to your heavenly purpose. 
 

 

Fascinating!!! 😊

I am always amazed how different the same terms are used.

In these 2 schools earth immortal means you can live as long as the earth exists.....hence earth immortal. 

But you would still need to reincarnate again if you would have been killed by an accident. 

What you describe with forming a body etc would be possible when becoming a spiritual immortal. 

49 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Yeah true. My focus is very much on spirituality... and in those circles becoming physically immortal would be considered like being imprisoned. The aim is to become a Heavenly Immortal... becoming an Earthly Immortal would be considered a tragic, 'high-level' mistake.

Very interesting!  How different schools frame their path!!!

In yuxian pai and wuliu pai physical immortality is on the way to heavenly immortality and a sign of going in the right direction.

Their evolution goes like....

First human immortal  .... after laying the foundations (body open etc. yuan jing and chi are fully replenished)

earth immortal  .... this means xing and ming have joined and that is the beginning  of the elixir...that means physical immortality

Then heavenly immortality...the elixir has matured to become the yangshen exiting the body.

spiritual immortality....physical body is disolved into light only yangshen remains. 

15 hours ago, Small Fur said:

 

 

 

 

 

One of the Three Clarities: The Embodiment of Lu Xing 祿星

 

 

Your question surmises that the spiritual nexus of well-being within a person's life has its basis in money; this is a common perspective around topics of power, because many expressions of life so often seem to coalesce in forms of power and this in turn can provoke both fear and desire in people. This perspective creates a multiplicity of contentions through material and conceptual dichotomies (and more) as you try to fit the infinity of spiritual manifestation into the mundane currency of a single form: money! (but you could replace this word for sex, politics or any other mundane condition where power tends to consolidate and wield itself).  If instead, your mundane life springs from the living awareness of spiritual connection to the Source that births all manifestations, then what is necessary to you will appear as is necessary for who you are, at the right time, naturally and in abundance.

 

What you talk about... safety, security, sanctity and health to live a full and deep life, rests more foundationally in prosperity (or foremost a deeper form of essential wealth)- the monetary economics of which are only one means, but for most in this variant of time and place, a very important and often vital one nonetheless.  

 

 

 

First, if you recognize and understand that the energy (qi- which actually has many forms) of prosperity has inifinite potential in flow, then this will begin to change your concept of how wellness manifests and this will allow you to be more receptive and grateful to its many guises as you discover the abundance of miracle through mundanity.

 

Prosperity is actually one of the three clarities of The Three Taoist Immortals correlated with the celestial bodies and elixir fields of our system, and who are themselves together the embodiment of unified purity when they congregate in the inner heavens (of the universe and your system):

Lu Xing- God of Prosperity (including all forms of wealth)
Fu Xing- God of Good Fate (including all forms of fortune),
Shou Xing-God of  Longevity (including all forms of health),

(A small aside. I notice in the West that The Three Wise Ones are either not talked about or are seen as caricatures of some kind, but in Southeast Asian cultures they are very much revered: many wines, foods and alters are set up in honor of them. When I was growing up, their names and their values were always mentioned; especially to give blessing on special occasions, to mark the potential greatness in new beginnings, and at Lunar New Year. One of the Chinese herbal shops I often visit has a shrine in honor of Shou Xing to give blessings of health to their patrons).

These three deities have had numinous manifestations across life times, achieving immortality with a unique focus of teaching from Emptiness as it leads from formlessness to become form and back again. Clarity in any of these three areas helps with the luminosity of transformation within us.

Prosperity is what occurs when the heavens in the (jade and purple) palace of the Three Treasures in our body are Consciously nurtured. Longevity is what happens when the roots of the Three Treasures are Consciously nurtured. And Good Fate/Happiness/Fortune is what happens when the Earth and the Heavens unite at the center (through the heart) of all that we are as ren (human).  Notice that in unification they are interdependent, ultimately inter-changeable and together create the potential for the treasures of wellness in our life from our bodies and through our bodies.  Remember that that which is Immortal is without desire, hence it is eternal and this applies to all formations of Treasure internal and external (...so don't objectify money and 'things'- lest xi shen, xi shen [acquired consciousness, acquired consciousness]).

So prosperity or the wealth of our lives are part of an energetic Consciousness that moves through the universe and into our subtle body systems. Abundance of the Treasures comes from our clarity of access to these energies and (wise) understandings from (the levels of) Emptiness within the universe. Hence, when we become afraid, jealous, resentful, greedy or desireful of these powers, it creates obscurity and distortion, leading to imbalances in health and lifestyle and ultimately, our spirit. So do not struggle with the idea of 'have and have not' and then harmfully fight about it with yourself or with others; this is not clear. Worry less about specific attainments (or loss/lack) of any kind and focus more on what really needs doing within yourself so that prosperity, fate and health can naturally manifest of their own accord from your virtue and as is necessary for your living spirit path.

 

 

To make this easier to understand and to begin with, consider living each day of your life like this:

Make the kinds of life choices that are true and gracious to each step of the process without fear of the potential outcome- the kind where you could honestly and humbly always say from within your heart from start to finish that it is, will be and was always worth it! This is true conscious commitment. If you can do this with metta (deep self and universal loving-kindness) each day of your life in all things, then sense right here and now how much more empowering, transformational and liberating life becomes!

 

This is a good first step and first breath to be practiced so that it may become literally
EVERY step and EVERY breath of your living!

 

 

So the root of your cultivation in this life needs to be one of a deep honesty in integrity of what is essential, committing to fulfill what is necessary- not what is the idea of something spiritual nor something societal, nor because you think you are a  ___put a self-affirmed label here___.

One must be deep and humble in their commitment to do what needs doing, and this requires a commitment in fearlessness and with vulnerability (this is often part of a larger, more complex topic so I won't get into it here, but it does mean you need the courage to live with an open heart in the face of all things- without passion, blindness nor foolishness and with lots of Love* Learning to do so is part of the human cultivation that allows us to step Consciously through the Mysterious Passage and go through what are known as the Spiritual Deaths- because at the least, who can know such Mystery without clarity and truthfulness, who can confront Death graciously without fearlessness and humility?). Also, one cannot be selfish in this endeavor if one is to be holistic and whole.

Before I close this post, a word of reminder:  Prosperity like any other clarity realized in Consciousness, must arise from your De (virtue). So do not confuse the attainments of yourself or others made through strife to be those arising from wisdom- whether these appear to be 'attainments' in cultivation or material life. Rightful living, including the rightfulness of resource and abundance that is True prosperity manifests uniquely to each soul's path from wei wu wei (effortless action) ; do not try to justify or rationalize- to yourself or for others, the things which do not come from the virtue of benevolent light.

 

 

*Love is understandably, another big topic for people, and I won't get into it here, but by this I do not necessarily mean human emotionality, nor sociopathic ideation from lack of emotions, nor the science of bio-chemistry or instinct or drive; but I do mean what is great and that which can be experienced as the bliss of enlightenment)

 

Hi!

Beautiful article!!!!!

What are the "heavens in the palace of the 3 treasures in our body"?

😊

2 hours ago, Asher Topaz said:

Wrong. In the shurangama sutra buddha talks about people who achieve immortality using mental concentration(samadhi).Other methods are listed like wai dan in the form of drugs, diet and minerals. Also alchemey and qigong was listed. Including mantras, spells swallowing saliva or absorbing energy from stars. All lead to immortality.

Well ... waidan is not drugs, minerals etc.

Waidan is the external elixir more commonly known as the philosophers stone. It is basically the same process as the internal elixir (=neidan)

Immortality of the physical body is no goal in neidan....it is a byproduct of correct practice of a complete method. 

All these things you mention are explicitly stated as not leading to neidan results (in alchemical texts) .

3 hours ago, Asher Topaz said:

Xing has to do with consciousness. Realizing the emptiness is xing.Dhayana absorptions is xing. Taoist believe most meditation are about consciousness. They also believe you cant achieve or stabilise xing without ming. Ming has to do with the alchemical transformation of jing to chi to shen. However I believe that dhyana/jhana is not possible without ming happening. As you meditate on your breath I believe over time alchemical changes happen inside you to let you achieve those absorptions. Thats y u feel physical bliss in jhana.Thats jing turning to chi. By second dhayna chi turns to shen. By third dhyana shen turns to emptiness. Fourth dhyana is beginning of the formless realms of emptiness. But taoist believe ming can only be accomplished through actively manipulating the alchemical process. That it doesnt happen on its own. 

No and no.

All these terms are very well defined within true neidan lineages. 

Xing is yuan shen 

Ming is yuan jing/chi

In neidan you only work with pre-heaven substances....if you work with jing and chi and shen you are still in the preparation phase and actual alchemy has not started yet.

Earl grey is spot on here. 😊

Because ancient approach to neidan is not about samadhi. 

It is not about realizing the dao but about repairing the dao within a person by creating the pre-heaven elixir (re-unification of xing and ming) and only that leads to the neidan effects....

....People who achieve samadhi are not living hundreds of years nor are they healthy so not much transformation of the body has taken place.

There is no book that talks about the ancient approach of neidan. 

Freeform has also pointed out that in his neidan lineage samadhi is used to further the whole process by using "substances" that can only be accessed in samadhi...but samadhi is not an end goal nor does everything happen on its  own. 

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

Who is that?
 

I must’ve missed a fun period here 😅

😂😂😂....he is a scamer of the highest order.

Has been around the Internet for almost 10 years i guess. 

He always sells "special hidden knowledge" he got from special super masters in the mountains..... at first he sold secret techniques of kriya yoga that he got from babaji himself...for just 10 000 USD.  😂

Later he had a website where he sold dozens of secret daoist paths.

And now this...but he always finds people who are willing to pay.

But that he still does this after all this years ...  he got a drive for his scam.😂

The whole text shows not one inch of true neidan knowledge...it is just endless bable. 

And of course it is Aussar.....from the true kriya yoga he sold for 10 000 USD to neidan and neigong. 

Interesting is that he starts the scam over and over again. 

1 hour ago, freeform said:

Interesting. Does he teach it in a way that generates an internal vibration?

 

I’m not sure to be honest. I don’t know if there are paths that solely focus on mantra - I imagine that if this exists, it would probably be a Hindu tradition - that’s where the Daoists and Chan traditions got all this from.

 

At a certain stage the mantra becomes internal… in the sense that it’s first a sound you make, then an internal vibration, then an internal light and eventually as you absorb into that light and penetrate past it’s outer manifestation, you’ll pass through ‘the mysterious gate’ into the unmanifest and experience Shen Ming - or the light of your Original Spirit… what happens after that in a tradition focusing solely on mantra - I don’t know.

 

For Daoist alchemists, you then absorb into Shen Ming (which is very difficult because the very experience dissolves any sense of self - so you have to find a way to concentrate without a self to do it… )

 

If you manage it, you eventually go past even this manifestation to a denser substance behind the light - you gather this spiritual essence and ‘bring it back’ and use it as one of your alchemical substances. In this way you create form out of the formless.

 

 

Hi freeform! 

What is the name of this spiritual substance behind the shen ming light?

All the best 😊

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Well - to be honest, I haven’t accessed them, so my understanding is only theoretical.

 

Not all alchemical paths use it. The ones that work extensively with Ling and the central channel tend to be the ones that do.

 

If you understand the central channel as a sort of leek with lots of layers - it’s your ability to penetrate through the layers into the very core that dictates if you’re able to access the chakra.

 

And penetrating to the core is a function of meditative concentration. Different depths of concentration give access to the different layers. The sort of concentration that is beyond the majority of meditators.

 

Actually ‘opening’ the chakra is exceptionally (and permanently) transformative in both one’s consciousness and physically. Transformative to an extent that it becomes nearly impossible to live a normal life in society.

 

What most people think as the chakra is usually simply Wei Qi - or sometimes the acupuncture points that often correlate.

 

The ‘true’ chakra exist on the preheaven level as far as I understand.

Thanks freeform that is really interesting and fascinating!!! Thanks for your sharing. 🙏

I have never heard that before even though i got teachings on different levels within the chakra and that its core is the "real deal" so to say.

Do you use them in your school?

What  kind of transformation do you think about when you say "one would have to leave society"?

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Yeah exactly. And the difference is not just between martial and spiritual disciplines - they are different for every tradition within each respective group.

 

So two spiritual Neigong systems will have two different wujis because they’re usually emphasising different things according to their system of progression.

 

Yup - completely different. In alchemy you deal with various medatitive states similar to Samadhi and Jhanna - and you use the ‘energetic substance’ of those states as alchemical ingredients.

 

In Neigong it’s really about becoming quiet, centred and calm… and developing absorption when more advanced.

 

In Xi Sui Jing - which you could say is the ‘pinnacle’ of neigong, the distinctions between Neidan, Neigong and meditation blur a little. But this is a closely guarded part of Neigong - not what’s talked about in public.
 

Haha - yeah sort of. It’s difficult to create simple distinctions without dumbing things down too much.

 

Alchemy is in essence about spiritual growth - and Neigong is about what I’d call ‘internal growth’. It’s not ‘spiritual’ in itself - it prepares you for spiritual practice (or healing practice, or internal martial arts, or for ‘magic’ and esoteric stuff with spirits and things or all manner of other energetic and esoteric things - all depends on the tradition).

 

I think that if you’re smart enough to categorise and not try to change, adapt and add stuff from different systems - then it’s fine to discuss and discover.

But keep your practice to one system - if it’s a complete system, then nothing else is necessary, and if anything is potentially really problematic.

Sometimes systems aren’t ‘complete’ and will require various additional factors - but deciding what needs adding or removing is best left to a teacher that has gone down that path successfully and knows what they’re doing.
 

Not everything applies to what you’re doing - not everything is relevant. 
 

Keep that in mind and you should be ok to discuss and discover.

 

Don’t use your body and mind as a lab rat  

 

Some Daoist lineages use them, some don’t. For the (more traditional) ones that do use them, the chakras are largely irrelevant until really quite far into the system.

 

Theres plenty of modern new agey systems that include chakras from the start - but in reality they’re dealing with something very superficial - not ‘the real chakra’ - or at least what the older, more traditional systems would call ‘the real chakra’.

Hi freeform! 

Very interesting....

I would be interested what you mean with true chakras?

On 16.8.2021 at 6:41 PM, Creation said:

Hi Michael, 

 

I appreciate you sharing about Lorne and David.  People with clarity about the different stages the process of non-dual awakening goes through is something I'm always happy to find.  

 

If you have any interest, here are some other clear mappings of the process:

 

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

https://digitalcommons.ciis.edu/conscjournal/vol8/iss8/1/

Thanks for the links. 

Andrew Hewson also has his own view on this unfolding. It is unique but compares well with Davids approach.  

The videos these two did about the stages and other aspects are quite good.

All the best 😊

12 hours ago, dwai said:

How does one know what lies beyond awareness without awareness/consciousness?

Is it possible to “know” without awareness/consciousness? If yes, then how?   
 

Is absence of subject-object duality the same as absence of consciousness or awareness? Certainly not. One experiences the absence of subject-object duality in deep sleep every day. 

That is why it cannot be talked about dwai. 😊

Even less then about awakening....

It is still seldom and as you have seen i do not much talk about what is here. I use links to people much better with words than i am.

I invite you again to Davids blog or his talks with Andrew Hewson on YouTube (they discuss that to the best of their ability there). You can also write David .... he has taken years to put that into words and he always answers questions. 

Or read Davids book. You could read Lornes book also (he wrote the Link i posted)

To answer your question....which cannot be answered .... you cannot and being/SELF absolute awareness cannot...only by realizing / becoming that which lies beyond ... it is "known" only by itself.

With that i end that here.

All the best on your way! 

😊

1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

"Experience" is another way to say awareness. If there is experience, if there is knowing, if there is anything at all (even a blank void, or nothingness, etc.) this is all arising in awareness. Usually when people talk about going "beyond" awareness, they mean some sort of reified state of consciousness. Even in the link you provided, the person talks about a "perspective" beyond consciousness. The word "perspective" implies awareness, so this is just playing word games. Usually people confuse a "sense" of awareness or a "state" of consciousness with awareness (even here, the so-called "Supreme Reality" is a "sense of Being Consciousness or Self"). If it has a sense, a feeling, a flavor or anything graspable at all, no matter how subtle, it is an arising. 

 

 

How should that be described other than with words?

It is only word games because you are closed to that shift....that is the word used...not perspective but shift. That word implies a change in our self perception. First being an individal, then presence,  then pure awareness and then that which lies beyond.

And with Supreme reality ..the same ...it has nothing to do with self or awareness. (And the article states that very clearly)

Read it more slowly....all you describe is what in that article is called self realization.

Beyond awareness is no void, no self, no knowing, no perception.....as there is no awareness. 

Besides that i have provided different sources....like the vids from David Buckland where he talks with Andrew Hewson about those shifts.

11 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

This shows a misunderstanding of the meaning of "absolute awareness" in my mind. The sort of awareness talked about doesn't have form, boundaries, or limits. 

Hi! 

No not at all. That is why it is so seldom talked about...and that is why i posted a link to the stages....from the 4th state to absolute awareness to beyond. 

Because that is the perception...it has no limits etc....that is the reality of being awake..there can not be something beyond it. But it can .

Just like someone in an Ego state cannot imagine the absolute awareness (and will deny that if he is not into spirituality) so is it not possible for someone awake in absolute awareness to imagine something beyond.(and will also deny further possibilty).

Only humility will do ....that no matter how limitless absolute awareness is ...maybe there is "something " more.

And that is experienced as loosing absolut awareness...and it is often a shock in the beginning but then slowly a new understanding dawns.