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Investigation into the false-self


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#1 Bindi

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:26 AM


 

Question: How to find the Atman? [the real self beyond ego or false self, our true self or essence which underlies our existence]

 

Ramana: There is no investigation into the Atman. The investigation can only be into the non-self. Elimination of the non-self is alone possible. The Self being always self evident will shine forth of itself.

 

Talk 78

https://www.scribd.c...arshi-KeyPoints

 

 

The removal of ignorance is the aim of practice and not acquisition of Realisation - Ramana

 

Talks, p. 322


Edited by Bindi, 04 January 2017 - 02:09 AM.

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#2 3bob

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 03:45 PM

one can not get or acquire realization like one could get some type of thing to add to themselves like mind based knowledge.  (being that there is nothing that can be added to or subtracted from the Self) 

 

"non-self" is a Buddhist related teaching so it won't really mix with Vedic teachings.


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#3 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:22 AM

so the problematic dichotomy implied with the term "non-self" vs. Self can tend to drive one nuts...

 

while in comparison Shiva-Shakti tends not drive one nuts.  


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#4 dwai

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:55 AM

one can not get or acquire realization like one could get some type of thing to add to themselves like mind based knowledge. (being that there is nothing that can be added to or subtracted from the Self)

"non-self" is a Buddhist related teaching so it won't really mix with Vedic teachings.


We tend to get caught up in labels too much IMHO. Non-self in Vedanta tradition is what is called "jiva"...
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#5 SeekerOfHealing

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:30 AM

It's not that our thoughts are unreal. They exist. But they have evolved over time and created a 'self'. A self that you believe is you.

Once we actually realise this, see this for ourselves, then pop, you're out.

 

There is no self at all. not existence at all. no jivas, no self at all. The self of Ramana is the Dao. 


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#6 dwai

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:35 PM

It's not that our thoughts are unreal. They exist. But they have evolved over time and created a 'self'. A self that you believe is you.
Once we actually realise this, see this for ourselves, then pop, you're out.

There is no self at all. not existence at all. no jivas, no self at all. The self of Ramana is the Dao.


That is the Self. One without an other. All else is just appearances
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#7 Bindi

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:48 PM

Allowing that we have accepted that the false self/true self essence dichotomy is real, then the only difference in practices seems to be how this dichotomy can be resolved in favour of the true self essence.

 

Ramana seems to suggest that by looking only at the false self this false self can be dismantled bit by bit until it is eliminated, and I would fundamentally agree with this position.


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#8 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:36 PM

umm, who or what is looking at this "false self" and who or what is doing the dismantling?   (thus we tend to have another mind blowing quandary)


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#9 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:39 PM

Dwai, I wouldn't make such a quick correlation with jiva,  although it may be tempting to simply things - but not per the Buddhists as I've so often heard.



#10 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 04:46 PM

Seeker of Healing,  Post #5 is the standard line given by many Buddhists - there is a problem with it though being that this is a Hindu sub-forum where Buddhist beliefs may be tolerated to an 'x' degree but imo they are really out of place if or when rudely given as a truism over Sanatana Dharma.


Edited by 3bob, 05 January 2017 - 05:00 PM.


#11 dwai

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 05:52 PM

Dwai, I wouldn't make such a quick correlation with jiva, although it may be tempting to simply things - but not per the Buddhists as I've so often heard.


Well the jiva is not the true self per advaita Vedanta. It is the limited self, governed by the limiting adjuncts like body, mind, etc.
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#12 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

Ok,  kind of sounds like you see ParaSiva and the 36* tattvas with connection in the sense of aspects?  

(*even though there are some differences in Hindu schools concerning the count and placement of tattvas)



#13 dwai

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:38 PM

Ok, kind of sounds like you see ParaSiva and the 36* tattvas with connection in the sense of aspects?
(*even though there are some differences in Hindu schools concerning the count and placement of tattvas)


I'm not quite well versed in Shaiva concepts...however if I consider for a moment the tanmatras and tattvas of samkhya, then those too fall in the domain of duality. They might be very great as metaphysics, but doesn't do anything from absolute nonduality pov, IMHO.
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#14 3bob

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:29 PM

Regardless of particular schools and if one refers to the Chandogya Upanishad (as an example) they "spring" from the Self, thus are not separate from the transcendant.



#15 Bindi

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:31 AM

umm, who or what is looking at this "false self" and who or what is doing the dismantling?   (thus we tend to have another mind blowing quandary)

 

I think my mind is doing the looking and the unhooking of itself from identification with the 5 koshas/sheaths.


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#16 dwai

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 04:33 AM

Regardless of particular schools and if one refers to the Chandogya Upanishad (as an example) they "spring" from the Self, thus are not separate from the transcendant.


Indeed...but also they are creations of our own Self, which is nothing but pure consciousness

Edited by dwai, 06 January 2017 - 04:33 AM.

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