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Lu Dongbin's 100 Character Stele


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#1 forestofemptiness

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:36 AM

Not getting much juice in the main forum, so I thought I'd try it here.

I came across the 100 Character Stele the other day, which I found quite interesting. Instead of visualizations, chakra spinnings, tai chi, qi gong, and the rest, it seems to provide a rather simple formula to attain heaven's ladder.

My questions have to do with the Chinese. For one, could the experts please tell me which characters are being used in the translated version, versus the reproduced stele at the bottom? And for translating "forget speech keeping," some translators interpret this to mean discursive thought, which sounds reasonable. I was wondering about other interpretations.
http://gator.dt.uh.e...etry/luyan1.htm

#2 Riyue

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 01:04 AM

Not getting much juice in the main forum, so I thought I'd try it here.

I came across the 100 Character Stele the other day, which I found quite interesting. Instead of visualizations, chakra spinnings, tai chi, qi gong, and the rest, it seems to provide a rather simple formula to attain heaven's ladder.

My questions have to do with the Chinese. For one, could the experts please tell me which characters are being used in the translated version, versus the reproduced stele at the bottom? And for translating "forget speech keeping," some translators interpret this to mean discursive thought, which sounds reasonable. I was wondering about other interpretations.
http://gator.dt.uh.e...etry/luyan1.htm


http://www.jnk.org.tw/wn01-3-04.htm

坐忘銘曰。常默元氣不傷。多言損氣。故貴忘言。陳養晦日。終日不開口。閻王難下手。忘言乃養氣之妙訣也。接氣布氣之術。皆祖於此。
---
吕洞宾 百字碑

1養氣忘言守。降心為不為。

11動靜知宗祖。無事更尋誰。

21真常須應物。應物要不迷。

31不迷性自住。性住氣自回。

41氣回丹自結。夢中配坎離。

51陰陽生返復。普化一聲雷。

61白雲朝頂上。甘露灑須彌。

71自飲長生酒。逍遙誰得知。

81坐聽無弦曲。明通造化機。

91都來二十句。端的上天梯。

Riyue

 

 


#3 baiqi

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:20 AM

I also enjoy this taoist "sutra" for its simplicity.

forestofemptiness: there are many interpretations for this text. The translation you gave seem a little too "word by word" for me...Anyway, 言, meaning speech, word, language, I also think discursive thought is what it refers to, not just the words out of the mouth!

Also, fo the first stanza: nourrish qi, forget words, keep this state of mind (=守, which means keep, yes, but imo refers to the 4 first words..It is okay to forget discursive thought a few secs, much harder for an hour, and to me just impossible any longer! :) But the longer the better...)

Other words are rather debated, even by the daoists, like 宗租, which is litteraly "the ancestor" .To me, it is something like the origin of all things, maybe the Tao itself..Some refer it to the heart or the "third eye". (Yes there is some chakra stuff, according to some...)

...More to come

#4 Procurator

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:30 AM

I also enjoy this taoist "sutra" for its simplicity.

to mistake concisness with simplicity is a, well mistake. it is coded its not simple at all.

#5 baiqi

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 02:56 AM

Mmh, right, let's say I enjoy it for its concisness. I don't mistake simplicity with easiness though.

So could you please help us decode it? ;)

#6 Procurator

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 03:52 AM

sure anytime. post your understanding of the expression u unsure about and i will correct it.

e g in the linked translation 降心 is "settle the heart". its not , its a tech term for placing the energy of the heart into the DT.

#7 forestofemptiness

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 03:52 PM

Baiqi,

I don't might debated translations. Unlike Tian Shi, I tend to take a more "holistic" view, especially with Taoist texts. In fact, the more the merrier. I would enjoy hearing more of your commentary on this stele.

Forget strikes me as such an unusual word. I only hear this in Taoist texts. Often in the West, the approach to thinking consists of blocking or suppressing it. "Forget" strikes me as a more "wu wei" solution.

#8 baiqi

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:28 PM

@ forestofemptiness:

That is right, the word "forget" is frequently used by the taoists. The seated meditation practices are sometimes called "sit and forget" 坐忘. Also, you have many stories about taoists "forgetting" who they socially are, and consequently remember who they actually are! This is common in Zhuangzi and Liezi stories...

The character wang 忘, "forget" is made of two others: 亡, "dead, corpse, death and so on", and 心, "heart" or emotional mind. I think the character itself gives us a hint: it is not about forgetting what we did yesterday...it is more about taming emotions. In this context of course, in common Chinese it does mean forget something, and is rather negative.

忘言also seems to mean this: don't bind yourself to concepts. Once you got the idea and put it in practice, keeping the concept is useless. (we tend to do that a lot in western philosophy)

Ok, now I have a question about this verse:

普化一聲雷

"Everywhere we hear the sound of the thunder"

Does anyone have any idea of what this "thunder" is about? This is still obscure to me.

#9 Procurator

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:03 AM

B)

Edited by TianShi, 14 March 2010 - 10:12 PM.


#10 baiqi

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:45 AM

Thanks a lot.

And here comes another one:

白雲朝頂上。甘露灑須彌

" white snow shows up on the top, sweet dew sprinkles on mt Meru"

I understand the expression "Mt Merru' as being the brain... Do you agree with this?

I am also wondering about the "white snow" and the "sweet dew": seen them in other alchemical texts, but don't know exactly what they refer to.

#11 Procurator

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 04:13 AM

:ph34r:

Edited by TianShi, 21 April 2010 - 10:22 PM.


#12 baiqi

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:28 AM

Found this: http://webspace.webr...ds/100wordc.htm


The text translated in English, with the comments of Zhang Sanfeng (you know, the guy who created taiji quan... ;) joking!) translated as well.
Excellent work IMO.

#13 Procurator

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 10:21 PM


Excellent work IMO.

uh-huh.

"莫去貪著。...But do not depart from desires."

貪著 tānzh is a buddhist technical term Parigredhdh, Paligodhah, meaning constant, single-minded intention.

nice try, but no cigar.

#14 Hugo Darien

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:54 AM

.....

Edited by Hugo Darien, 08 July 2010 - 04:03 PM.


#15 Harmonious Emptiness

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:07 PM

Found this: http://webspace.webr...ds/100wordc.htm


The text translated in English, with the comments of Zhang Sanfeng (you know, the guy who created taiji quan... wink.gif joking!) translated as well.
Excellent work IMO.

 

A much belated thanks for this link :)  .  Very interesting!



#16 rainbowvein

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:34 PM

Ok, now I have a question about this verse:

普化一聲雷

"Everywhere we hear the sound of the thunder"

Does anyone have any idea of what this "thunder" is about? This is still obscure to me.


Have you ever heard the thunder in your head during cultivation practices? It is lierally the sound of thunder in your ears. Sometimes with or without sound.

Distant rolling thunder...

Edited by rainbowvein, 29 August 2014 - 12:38 PM.

  • Harmonious Emptiness said thanks for this




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