Dragons as a symbol - differences in meaning east and west

[Apech]

1 hour ago, S:C said:

Not for a woman, it ain‘t.

Unless she ends up with a man, eh? 
 

It‘s a different challenge for women. Usually it is emotions they have to restrain or overcome, no? 
 

So the figurative dragon is at another place for ‘em, no?

 

There's men and women and there's male and female principles.  

 

A man is not 100% male and a female not 100% female - we are all a balance between 60/40% to 51/49%.

 

So any individual has both male and female principles within which they need to balance, transmute and integrate.

 

The maiden which the knight rescues represents the naked reality of the pure feminine consciousness (voidity) and the knight is the probing male questing consciousness which is seeking out the reality of the feminine.  The dragon is the chaotic forces which obscure and prevent to perfect 'marriage' of the knight and the maiden.

 

 

 

 

[Haribol]

The holy trinity - the knight, the maiden and the penis.

 

edit: sorry, the tamed and well behaved penis*

Edited February 10 by Haribol

[S:C]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

chaotic

sounds rather western and/or buddhist (negative dragon) and quite advanced (consciousness/marriage). is it not rather the ten thousand things that obscure and prevent? poor (female unleashed) scolded dragon, it seems to hide in voiditiy.

1 hour ago, Haribol said:

sorry, the tamed and well behaved penis*

Can’t say that about the emotions men have about theirs. Else we could stay on topic, maybe? 
 

No one here for the eastern perspective on dragons and some positivity? No one to talk about the emotive practice for women? It’s a real men’s club, here, I feel like leaving again.  

Edited February 10 by S:C

[Haribol]

@S:C

apologies, wasn’t my intention to derail the thread. I am unfortunately to ignorant to shed light on your questions, but I’d to like to learn more about it. 

[S:C]

On 9.2.2026 at 12:34 PM, Haribol said:

Material enjoyment means utilizing the intelligence for the sake of rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda and sparśa, or form, taste, smell, sound and touch.

is that the male aspect of ‘the dragon’? 

where does the Indian tradition (this is sanskrit?) recommend enjoyment of empirical sense data? what is this tradition where that comes from? It seems more earth bound than uhm all this consciousness and marriage and lusty stuff. seems all awfully exhausting anyways. 
 

can you transform unhealthy emotional cycles with the empirical methods of form, taste, smell, sound and touch… ?

 

maybe that is a way from one dragon to another, well and India is sort of in the middle anyways between west and east . Huh

 

Edited February 10 by S:C

[S:C]

oh boy, …

quelle stupidité

though this be madness yet there’s method in it.
 

Edited February 10 by S:C
😏

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, S:C said:

Not for a woman, it ain‘t.

Unless she ends up with a man, eh? 
 

It‘s a different challenge for women. Usually it is emotions they have to restrain or overcome, no? 
 

So the figurative dragon is at another place for ‘em, no?

 

Yes ... she watches the knight run around in circles  wanting her lustfully , going into a psychotic split, denying his natural nature, making it a monster due to his Christian sexual sublimation and then that imprisoning her , while his other part wants to kill his natural desires and save the woman from himself . 

 

The woman , meanwhile is watching rather bored and thinking ; ''Oh.. for God'sake just, just fuck me, won't you  ! '' 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Haribol said:

The holy trinity - the knight, the maiden and the penis.

 

edit: sorry, the tamed and well behaved penis*

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, S:C said:

 

Can’t say that about the emotions men have about theirs. Else we could stay on topic, maybe? 

 

I was laughing at this bit .   Not at the rest . 

 

Please dont go !   

 

( Thats what men say to women after they have been an idiot to them )

[Haribol]

44 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I was laughing at this bit .   Not at the rest . 

 

Please dont go !   

 

( Thats what men say to women after they have been an idiot to them )

 

 

[Haribol]

15 hours ago, S:C said:

is that the male aspect of ‘the dragon’? 

where does the Indian tradition (this is sanskrit?) recommend enjoyment of empirical sense data? what is this tradition where that comes from? It seems more earth bound than uhm all this consciousness and marriage and lusty stuff. seems all awfully exhausting anyways. 
 

can you transform unhealthy emotional cycles with the empirical methods of form, taste, smell, sound and touch… ?

 

maybe that is a way from one dragon to another, well and India is sort of in the middle anyways between west and east . Huh

 

Your inquiry was forwarded to a learned sage, who responds accordingly:

 

Quote

Here is a translation that captures the spiritual tone and the specific terminology of Krishna Consciousness, while keeping it conversational and clear.
English Translation
Hare Krishna 🙏 The core idea of Krishna Consciousness (KC) or Krishna-bhakti is to perform all sensory activities for the purpose of advancing KC. In other words, one eats for K, enjoys a view for K, and smells wonderful fragrances for K (for example, the scent of a beautiful flower—after offering it to K first, of course). One must do this in a regulated way to train the mind to eventually, automatically connect everything with K. This way, everything you perceive, feel, and think somehow originates from K, is meant as a lesson from K served directly or indirectly, or is a personal encounter with K (as in His Name, when one has the right KC). I hope this makes sense! 🙏
A Gita Verse Supporting This:
yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra,
sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati,
tasyāhaṁ na praṇaśyāmi,
sa ca me na praṇaśyati (Bg 6.30)
"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees Me in everything, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me." ✨
Another Perspective
From another perspective, all sensory pleasures fall under the Sanskrit heading called Kama. Kama is one of the four human goals, listed here in order of increasing importance, with Moksha being the highest:
 * Kama (pleasure)
 * Artha (economic development/gain)
 * Dharma (duty/righteousness)
 * Moksha (liberation)
All four must be accounted for simultaneously; however, by following Krishna-bhakti, it is possible to transcend them in favor of life’s fifth goal: Bhakti (pure love of God). Since the senses and the mind demand pleasure to avoid going on "strike," we engage them under the umbrella of Bhakti as an offering to Krishna—making it as sattvic (pure/good) and clean-hearted as we can manage for the highest goal of life.
Would you like me to help you refine the English even further for a specific audience, such as a formal blog post or a casual social media caption?

 

 

[Haribol]

I am reading this text (that I have created a thread about and will link to at the bottom) that is suprisingly relevant to this one.

 

On 10.2.2026 at 2:11 PM, Apech said:

 

There's men and women and there's male and female principles.  

 

A man is not 100% male and a female not 100% female - we are all a balance between 60/40% to 51/49%.

 

So any individual has both male and female principles within which they need to balance, transmute and integrate.

 

The maiden which the knight rescues represents the naked reality of the pure feminine consciousness (voidity) and the knight is the probing male questing consciousness which is seeking out the reality of the feminine.  The dragon is the chaotic forces which obscure and prevent to perfect 'marriage' of the knight and the maiden.

 

 

 

 

"And the fifth meaning of budh is to fathom. A depth is there in you, a bottomless depth, which has to be fathomed. Or, the fifth meaning can be to penetrate, to drop all that obstructs and penetrate to the very core of your being, the heart. That's why this sutra is called the Heart Sutra - Prajnaparamita Hridayam Sutra - to penetrate.

People try to penetrate many things in life. Your urge, your great desire for sex is nothing but a kind of penetration. But that is a penetration into the other. The same penetration has to happen into your own being: you have to penetrate yourself. If you penetrate somebody else it can give you a momentary glimpse, but if you penetrate yourself you can attain to the universal cosmic orgasm that remains and remains and remains.

A man meets an outer woman, and a woman meets an outer man: this is a very superficial meeting - yet meaningful, yet it brings moments of joy. When the inner woman meets the inner man... And you are carrying both inside you: a part of you is feminine, a part of you is masculine. Whether you are man or woman does not matter; everybody is bisexual.

The fifth meaning of the root budh means penetration. When your inner man penetrates your inner woman there is a meeting; you become whole, you become one. And then all desires for the outer disappear. In that desirelessness is freedom, is nirvana."

 

On 9.2.2026 at 10:00 PM, S:C said:

what exactly are we afraid of

An intelligent person does not escape from any fact. If it is fear he will go into it - because the way out is through. If he feels fear and trembling arising in him, he will leave everything aside: first this fear has to be gone through. He will go into it, he will try to understand. He will not try how not to be afraid; he will not ask that question. He will simply ask one question: "What is this fear? It is there, it is part of me, it is my reality. I have to go into it, I have to understand it. If I don't understand it then a part of me will always remain unknown to me. And how am I going to know who I am if I go on avoiding parts? I will not understand fear, I will not understand death, I will not understand anger, I will not understand my hatred, I will not understand my jealousy, I will not understand this and that..." Then how are you going to know yourself?

All these things are you! This is your being. You have to go into everything that is there, every nook and corner. You have to explore fear. Even if you are trembling it is nothing to be worried about: tremble, but go in. It is far better to tremble than to escape, because once you escape, that part will remain unknown to you, and you will become more and more afraid to look at it because that fear will go on accumulating. It will become bigger and bigger if you don't go into it right now, this moment. Tomorrow it will have lived twenty-four hours more.

Beware! - it will have got more roots in you, it will have bigger foliage, it will become stronger; and then it will be more difficult to tackle. It is better to go right now, it is already late.

And if you go into it and you see it... And seeing means without prejudice. Seeing means that you don't condemn fear as bad from the very beginning. Who knows? - it is not bad.

Who knows that it is? The explorer has to remain open to all the possibilities; he cannot afford a closed mind. A closed mind and exploration don't go together. He will go into it. If it brings suffering and pain, he will suffer the pain but he will go into it. Trembling, hesitant, but he will go into it: "It is my territory, I have to know what it is. Maybe it is carrying some treasure for me? Maybe the fear is only there to protect the treasure."

That's my experience, that's my understanding: if you go deep into your fear you will find love. That's why it happens that when you are in love, fear disappears. And when you are afraid you cannot be in love. What does this mean? A simple arithmetic - fear and love don't exist together. That means it must be the same energy that becomes fear; then there is nothing left to become love. It becomes love; then there is nothing left to become fear.

Go into fear, Prageet, Vidya, and all others who are feeling afraid. Go into it, and you will find a great treasure. Hidden behind fear is love, and hidden behind anger is compassion, and hidden behind sex is samadhi.

 

 

[Cobie]

 

11 hours ago, Haribol said:

… When the inner woman meets the inner man … you become whole, you become one. And then all desires for the outer disappear. In that desirelessness is freedom, is nirvana."

…

You have to explore fear … Hidden behind fear is love, and hidden behind anger is compassion, and hidden behind sex is samadhi.

…

 

Yes.  
 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Haribol said:

...

A man meets an outer woman, and a woman meets an outer man: this is a very superficial meeting - yet meaningful, yet it brings moments of joy. When the inner woman meets the inner man... And you are carrying both inside you: a part of you is feminine, a part of you is masculine. Whether you are man or woman does not matter; everybody is bisexual.

...

 

'' ... 

5.	And the infant grew strong; yet its strength was in its weakness; and though to look at it from before was to look upon a man-child, from behind it was a little girl with golden hair. N ow, when the child wished to tempt a maid he faced and approached her; and when the child wished to tempt a man she turned her back on him and fled.
4.	But one day the child met, at the self-same hour, Love; and the man, seeing a woman, approached her eagerly, and the woman, seeing a man, fled, so that he might capture her. Thus it came about that the child met the child and wondered, not knowing that the child had lost the child. So it was that they walked side by side.
3.	Then that part of the child that was man loved and lusted for that part of the child that was woman; and each knew not that each was the other, and felt that they were two and yet one, nevertheless one and yet two. And when one said: “Who art thou?” the other answered at the self-same moment: “Who am I?”   -  from     Liber ΘΕΣΑΥΡΟΥ ΕΙΔΩΛΩΝ by General J. F. C. ( Boney)   Fuller ;           ( he painted as well )

[Haribol]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

And when one said: “Who art thou?” the other answered at the self-same moment: “Who am I?”

At times, the lines between me and the environment, the internal and the external, starts blurring for me. Sometimes it’s a wonderful, magic experience. Other times confusing. And at times the possibility of excistence being a giant echo chamber, me talking to my self, saddens me. Playing alone is no fun. 

[Cobie]

Female dragon.

Avalokitesvara/Guanyin has a Dragon Female Companion (and 
is the Great Bodhisattva of the Western Pure Land).

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:12 PM by Cobie

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

Female dragon.

Avalokitesvara/Guanyin has a Dragon Female Companion (and 
is the Great Bodhisattva of the Western Pure Land).

 

 

 

Cool !  I used to make up (on the spot) a lot of kids stories , when I had a lot to do with kids ( and during 'the age of stories , before they became 'electronic screen addicts ' ) - but I would like to put a twist on them  and break the old archetype   ( like a young girl finds her dreams come true  ... without  the prince that  has  to 'save her'    . 

 

So I made my dragon story - a female dragon .   

 

By the way ,  you know how dragons are said to   guard treasure  ... or have treasure  , did you know how they get that treasure ? 

 

Up in the  tops of the craggy high mountains where they nest,    they scrape out  molds in the rocks with their claws . They dig out other rocks  and blast them with their fiery breath to extract the precious metals and pour them, liquid, into the molds .  When they dig out rocks  they sometimes find gems  and they cut these with their teeth by carefully biting them on different angles  and polishing them on their rough skin . Then they set them in the metal shapes they have made ; rings,  chalices, crowns, bangles  and store them in their cave . 

 

Dont try to steal them ... she will get very very angry ! 

 

 

 

 

 

... how a dragon takes a bath ; 

 

 

 

She splashes around a bit in the lava , being mindful to do behind her ears and neck , then while glowing hot , she plummets from the mountain top through the sky like a burning meteor  into the ocean far below . There in the beach side waves  she turns and rolls and the hissing water and steam thoroughly finish the job .   She emerges even more shiny and burnished and bright  ( and might even do a little Samba along the beach (if no one is watching ) ... just because that feels good . 

[S:C]

 

?

[Cobie]

 

14 minutes ago, S:C said:

? 

Holy Grail plus Ouroboros, that’s ‘The Great Work’.