Dragons as a symbol - differences in meaning east and west

[S:C]

What does the symbol of the dragon stand for in the east in comparison to the west, is there a difference? The west isn’t very fond of them, but the east does value those in folklore and myth, is that wrong, can anyone explain please? Thanks.

[Cobie]

Western dragon is a dynosaur; Eastern dragon is an alligator.

[Lairg]

 

The term dragon may be used figuratively.  Many ancient visitors were depicted with scales such as the Asar/Osiris and Aset/Isis (brother and sister)

 

 

Here are the Hindu Nagas - reputed to appear as  human, or human on a reptilian body, or all reptilian

 

 

 

Here are Fuxi and Nuwa, brother and sister, standing amongst the stars, with the square and compasses still used in Freemasonry - in a somewhat Masonic embrace commemorated(?) with foot, knee and hand over back.

 

 

 

Here is a Thai version 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Lairg

[Haribol]

One interpretation put forward by Jordan Peterson, is that the western dragon represents the ultimate predator: a flying, fire breathing snake. The anti human, so to speak. Our deepest fear. 
 

This makes sense to me. The hero leaves home, encounter a dragon in a cave, slays it (his fear) and returns with gold to his people. The heroes journey. This is related to indo European myth, I believe, which has been reccreated by Bruce Lincoln, where Trito (third man/warrior), goes on a journey to retrieve stolen cattle with the help of the sky god. After slaying the serpent, he returns the cattle to the priestly cast who reestablish order by sacrifice.

 

The word dragon comes from greek drakon «meaning "serpent" or "large seafish," which stems from dérkesthai, meaning "to see clearly".»

 

The we have Sigurd Fåvnesbane, who for whatever reason is depicted as drinking the blood of the dragon he has slayed, attatchment one and two.

 

The dragon of the far east and Quetzalcōātl I am curious about, please enlighten me.

 

Also, @Lairg, since you mention the Indian tradition… what do you make of the following pic of Vishnu:

Sigurd:

 

edit: also, it’s ability to fly, walk and swim, as well as its fire breathing strikes me as very significant.

Edited February 3 by Haribol

[Lairg]

52 minutes ago, Haribol said:

depicted as drinking the blood of the dragon he has slayed,

 

That is likely to be  symbolic - a more severe account than the tradition of St George taming the dragon and leading it through the market.   That is a reference to the human learning to control its personality will.

 

The intelligence of the personality will, as a precondition to first stage enlightenment, is moved by the human spirit, from defensive control of the personality to a new role of creativity.

 

[Lairg]

58 minutes ago, Haribol said:

@Lairg, since you mention the Indian tradition… what do you make of the following pic of Vishnu

 

Same as St George: the personality will needs to be controlled and transformed as a precondition to enlightenment

 

 

[Haribol]

27 minutes ago, Lairg said:

The intelligence of the personality will

Could you explain what this is, please?

[Nungali]

I  remember a long thread with good pictures on this subject here , years back . Could be worth finding .

[Lairg]

>The intelligence of the personality will

 

You may recall in the Castaneda writings that Don Juan refers to the mind as a "foreign intelligence".  That is a useful, if approximate statement.

 

Each chakra properly has an intelligence to operate the relevant part of the human energy body.  Thus there is an intelligence that operates the physical body and its thousands of parallel biological and energetic processes and sub-intelligences.  

 

Sometimes trauma and toxicity result in the managing intelligence giving up, leaving its subsidiary intelligences, including elementals, to do the best they can.  Severe autism often is a symptom.

 

The energies of the mental plane used in the human mind can be divided into lower and higher mental.  The lower sub-plane substances properly are managed by a dedicated intelligence that can be called: the personal will.  

 

The PW protects its primary asset: its self esteem.  It hates to be wrong, and will defend that asset by turning away from events, energies, relationships and intelligences that dispute its "wisdom".

 

The PW is valuable as it forces the personality to get its act together - to protect the self-esteem of the PW.  That requires the personality to control physical and emotional desires and lower frequency mental processes.

 

Eventually the human has the personality sufficiently controlled that the human can interact with transpersonal/spiritual energies.

 

At that point the PW fights for its continued existence.  Eventually, after many incarnations the human spirit is strong enough to overcome the PW and the PW miraculously discovers that it actually has a higher function: creatively expressing the spiritual nature of the human spirit.

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Lairg

[Haribol]

@Lairg a few thoughts. Some of this might seem random, but it feels right to share in the context of serpent/dragon and personal will:

 

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

That is likely to be  symbolic - a more severe account than the tradition of St George taming the dragon and leading it through the market.   That is a reference to the human learning to control its personality will.

 

The intelligence of the personality will, as a precondition to first stage enlightenment, is moved by the human spirit, from defensive control of the personality to a new role of creativity.

 

 

Not quiet .... not  control will, but libido .  

Check the knight and minstrel tradition back then .... unrequited love rules !   But what about that every present in the background LUST  ? ... the maiden must be saved from that  ( check the images , many involve a maiden that needs to be saved by the 'pure' knight .

 

sometimes you have to look hard ... where is Wally ? 

 

 

[Haribol]

In regards to previously posted pic of Vishnu with the serpents and the conversation around it, I wonder if this is of relevance:

 

ŚB 4.25.21

पञ्चशीर्षाहिना गुप्तां प्रतीहारेण सर्वत: ।
अन्वेषमाणामृषभमप्रौढां कामरूपिणीम् ॥ २१ ॥

 

pañca-śīrṣāhinā guptāṁ
pratīhāreṇa sarvataḥ
anveṣamāṇām ṛṣabham
aprauḍhāṁ kāma-rūpiṇīm

 

Synonyms

pañca — five; śīrṣa — heads; ahinā — by a snake; guptām — protected; pratīhāreṇa — by a bodyguard; sarvataḥ — all around; anveṣamāṇām — one who is searching after; ṛṣabham — a husband; aprauḍhām — not very old; kāma-rūpiṇīm— very attractive to fulfill lusty desires.

 

Translation

The woman was protected on all sides by a five-hooded snake. She was very beautiful and young, and she appeared very anxious to find a suitable husband.

 

Purport

The vital force of a living entity includes the five kinds of air working within the body, which are known as prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, samāna and udāna. The vital force is compared to a serpent because a serpent can live by simply drinking air. The vital force carried by the air is described as the pratīhāra, or the bodyguard. Without the vital force one cannot live for a moment. Indeed, all the senses are working under the protection of the vital force.

 

The woman, who represents intelligence, was searching after a husband. This indicates that intelligence cannot act without consciousness. A beautiful woman is useless unless protected by the proper husband. Intelligence must always be very fresh; therefore the word aprauḍhām, “very young,” is used here. Material enjoyment means utilizing the intelligence for the sake of rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda and sparśa, or form, taste, smell, sound and touch.

 

@Nungali in regards to the last post, are you suggesting that the dragon is protecting the virgin from the knight in shining armor ahaha? 

[S:C]

9 hours ago, Haribol said:

suggesting that the dragon is protecting the virgin from the knight in shining armor

this…

 

dragon vs. knight?

lust or emotions? different for men and women. 
 

dragon and knight.

why either or. neither nor?

where is their rightful place in a man or a woman? (didn’t @awaken mention a similar symbolism?)

who is the virgin? heart or spirit? trinity? seems so ungrounded, when looked at it this way. what’s the ‘counterpart’ of the virgin? doesn’t she have a dragon-like side as well?
 

are dragons rather feminine in daoism or classic male as a concept metaphor?

 

we gotta keep the cultural traditions separate when we use them as reference frames or else all meaning is lost. 
 

9 hours ago, Haribol said:

The vital force of a living entity includes the five kinds of air working within the body, which are known as prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, samāna and udāna. The vital force is compared to a serpent because a serpent can live by simply drinking air. The vital force carried by the air is described as the pratīhāra, or the bodyguard. Without the vital force one cannot live for a moment. Indeed, all the senses are working under the protection of the vital force.

 

The woman, who represents intelligence, was searching after a husband. This indicates that intelligence cannot act without consciousness. A beautiful woman is useless unless protected by the proper husband. Intelligence must always be very fresh; therefore the word aprauḍhām, “very young,” is used here. Material enjoyment means utilizing the intelligence for the sake of rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda and sparśa, or form, taste, smell, sound and touch.

@haribol, might be, but I can’t understand the context, can you elaborate please?

 

what is the positive element of dragons that is found in the east, - fertility, water, chaos as a positive element, as well as ehh um destruction as it makes place for ehh something new..? anyone… ?

 

Edited Monday at 09:23 PM by S:C

[S:C]

On 3.2.2026 at 4:22 AM, Haribol said:

Our deepest fear

what exactly are we afraid of

[S:C]

On 3.2.2026 at 4:22 AM, Haribol said:

drinking the blood of the dragon he has slayed

can’t help but repeat that the cultural references frames are helpful only if kept separated… 

 

can we have both perspectives on dragons clearly separated maybe, - that might help 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Haribol said:

In regards to previously posted pic of Vishnu with the serpents and the conversation around it, I wonder if this is of relevance:

 

ŚB 4.25.21

पञ्चशीर्षाहिना गुप्तां प्रतीहारेण सर्वत: ।
अन्वेषमाणामृषभमप्रौढां कामरूपिणीम् ॥ २१ ॥

 

pañca-śīrṣāhinā guptāṁ
pratīhāreṇa sarvataḥ
anveṣamāṇām ṛṣabham
aprauḍhāṁ kāma-rūpiṇīm

 

Synonyms

pañca — five; śīrṣa — heads; ahinā — by a snake; guptām — protected; pratīhāreṇa — by a bodyguard; sarvataḥ — all around; anveṣamāṇām — one who is searching after; ṛṣabham — a husband; aprauḍhām — not very old; kāma-rūpiṇīm— very attractive to fulfill lusty desires.

 

Translation

The woman was protected on all sides by a five-hooded snake. She was very beautiful and young, and she appeared very anxious to find a suitable husband.

 

Purport

The vital force of a living entity includes the five kinds of air working within the body, which are known as prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, samāna and udāna. The vital force is compared to a serpent because a serpent can live by simply drinking air. The vital force carried by the air is described as the pratīhāra, or the bodyguard. Without the vital force one cannot live for a moment. Indeed, all the senses are working under the protection of the vital force.

 

The woman, who represents intelligence, was searching after a husband. This indicates that intelligence cannot act without consciousness. A beautiful woman is useless unless protected by the proper husband. Intelligence must always be very fresh; therefore the word aprauḍhām, “very young,” is used here. Material enjoyment means utilizing the intelligence for the sake of rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda and sparśa, or form, taste, smell, sound and touch.

 

@Nungali in regards to the last post, are you suggesting that the dragon is protecting the virgin from the knight in shining armor ahaha? 

 

No .  The dragon IS the Knight .   Or more correctly; the dragon is the knigh'ts libido , the Knight is the chivalrous  aspect of the Knight . 

The maiden  is the woman the dragon desires  and the woman the Knight desires , but he must subliminal his libido  and ;play the game ' chivalrously ' . 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, S:C said:

this…

 

dragon vs. knight?

lust or emotions? different for men and women. 
 

dragon and knight.

why either or. neither nor?

where is their rightful place in a man or a woman? (didn’t @awaken mention a similar symbolism?)

who is the virgin? heart or spirit? trinity? seems so ungrounded, when looked at it this way. what’s the ‘counterpart’ of the virgin? doesn’t she have a dragon-like side as well?
 

are dragons rather feminine in daoism or classic male as a concept metaphor?

 

we gotta keep the cultural traditions separate when we use them as reference frames or else all meaning is lost. 
 

@haribol, might be, but I can’t understand the context, can you elaborate please?

 

what is the positive element of dragons that is found in the east, - fertility, water, chaos as a positive element, as well as ehh um destruction as it makes place for ehh something new..? anyone… ?

 

 

Luck  !  

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, S:C said:

what exactly are we afraid of

 

In the west    -  dragons ! 

 

In the east     no dragons !

[Haribol]

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

No .  The dragon IS the Knight .   Or more correctly; the dragon is the knigh'ts libido , the Knight is the chivalrous  aspect of the Knight . 

The maiden  is the woman the dragon desires  and the woman the Knight desires , but he must subliminal his libido  and ;play the game ' chivalrously ' . 

Thank you. Was reading about serpent symbolism this evening, and here is how it ties into what you says, as well as dragons.

 

Serpents crawling on the ground represents the animalistic, «low,» egoic aspect of us. But also rebirth, renewal, evolution (due to the shedding of the skin thing). By controlling one’s lust, the Serpents climb the spine/staff. The reason there are two of them, is to symbolize duality. The S shaped movement symbolizes energy. When they reach the top, the mind, they unite, and gain wings. And what is a serpent with wings? A dragon. 🐉 

[Nungali]

.... and they are central to the Australian indigenous creation stories .  Many know of the rainbow serpent  ;  earth serpent - Ungud . 

 

But there is a sky serpent  ( haven and earth  aspects )  Wallenganda ... black serpent  , the mother of us all ;

 

 

 

 

 

                                    

 

                      heaven                                                                                                             earth 

[Cobie]

 

8 minutes ago, Haribol said:

... serpent symbolism ..

 

The serpent is the penis.

 

8 minutes ago, Haribol said:

… rebirth …

 

Sexual reproduction.

 

8 minutes ago, Haribol said:

... controlling one’s lust ..

Integrating soul and body.

 

 

[Haribol]

@Nungali I’d love to dive deeper into this with you, but it’s getting late. One immediate observation from the first pic tho: the tree in between. 

[Haribol]

3 minutes ago, Cobie said:

The serpent is the penis.

And the penis is life force and the goal is a dick head.

 

Spoiler

Forgive me. Should sleep, gn.

 

[Nungali]

6 minutes ago, Haribol said:

@Nungali I’d love to dive deeper into this with you, but it’s getting late. One immediate observation from the first pic tho: the tree in between. 

 

'Shu' .   

[S:C]

13 hours ago, Cobie said:

The serpent is the penis

Not for a woman, it ain‘t.

Unless she ends up with a man, eh? 
 

It‘s a different challenge for women. Usually it is emotions they have to restrain or overcome, no? 
 

So the figurative dragon is at another place for ‘em, no?