Buddhist/Daoist Views Related to Xing/Dharmakaya(Split From What do you think about Neidan(內丹)?)

[SodaChanh]

18 hours ago, Antares said:

I doubt that modern Buddhist understand, for example, what is Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya. The second one they may be realize but what is the first one, you know it?  

 

From Lama Dawai Gocha:

 

I suggest asking for a pointing out in a live session to see Awareness for yourself. 

 

 

[Antares]

1 hour ago, SodaChanh said:

From Lama Dawai Gocha:

It corresponds with some aspects described in Secret of Golden Flower, for example, so this is good, but in my opinion they lack Ming methods in Dzogchen. But ofc it depends on a lineage, some of them can have it too. They have authentic tummo but I don't know which lineage has it now. 

[SodaChanh]

9 minutes ago, Antares said:

It corresponds with some aspects described in Secret of Golden Flower, for example, so this is good, but in my opinion they lack Ming methods in Dzogchen. But ofc it depends on a lineage, some of them can have it too. They have authentic tummo but I don't know which lineage has it now. 

 

I don't know about that, but from the Wuzhen Pian

 

Quote

IF YOU ARE GOING TO STUDY IMMORTALITY, YOU SHOULD STUDY CELESTIAL IMMORTALITY; ONLY THE GOLD ELIXIR IS WORTHWHILE

 

Gold elixir = your true nature. 

 

If you think vitality = no grey hair, I would ask for a living proof of that, do you have a pic of a master who has the realization of a Buddha and no grey hair? 

[Antares]

12 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

Gold elixir = your true nature. 

This is true but for celestial immortals only. Other people have chance to get "elixir" (not golden). It is quite rare achievement in Daoism too, I mean the golden one.

At least Daoist methods are good for longevity and balance and there is chance to get more.

As I said in other thread - the more ming one obtains the better chance for good reincarnation

All depends on Destiny and correct methods. No warranty here

Edited December 27, 2025 by Antares

[SodaChanh]

4 minutes ago, Antares said:

This is true but for celestial immortals only. Other people have chance to get "elixir" (not golden). It is quite rare achievement in Daoism too, I mean the golden one.

At least Daoist methods are good for longevity and balance and there is chance to get more.

All depends on Destiny and correct methods. No warranty here

 

Everybody can see their true nature right now, it is the basis for every experience, therefore there is no requirement necessary. 

 

I think you are talking about a so-called stage of a realization where one has abided in their true nature and exhausted 'karma'. 

 

I think the reason true nature is emphasized is because seeing it can free one more than engaging in ming-practice which can further delusion. But that is a matter of Destiny. 

 

Abiding in true nature does not directly infuse you with jing, it is more of a relaxing, where channels open up indirectly by freeing up tension. 

 

Ming is more a like inflating your tires on your bike-practice. 

[Antares]

21 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

I would ask for a living proof of that, do you have a pic of a master who has the realization of a Buddha and no grey hair? 

 

Even if there is one near by here they hide their achievements, also I dont think they live in society

 

[SodaChanh]

3 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

Even if there is one near by here they hide their achievements, also I dont think they live in society

 

I think there are secrets in FP but it requires deep cultivation time to unlock. 

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

Everybody can see their true nature right now, it is the basis for every experience, therefore there is no requirement necessary. 

If you can see Golden Light right now - my congrats, keep going, you are on the right track. 

 

3 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

I think you are talking about a so-called stage of a realization where one has abided in their true nature and exhausted 'karma'. 

smth like that

3 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

Abiding in true nature does not directly infuse you with jing, it is more of a relaxing, where channels open up indirectly by freeing up tension. 

yeah, but you need your jing for channels opening and building too. some of them do not exist yet, they have to be built

[SodaChanh]

2 minutes ago, Antares said:

If you can see Golden Light right now - my congrats, keep going, you are on the right track. 

 

smth like that

yeah, but you need your jing for channels opening and building too. some of them do not exist yet, they have to be built

 

I would trust Awareness much more than the mind because Awareness is Godly intelligence whereas the mind f*cks thing up usually. 

[Antares]

3 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

I think there are secrets in FP but it requires deep cultivation time to unlock. 

This is good system byt there is specific order in these meds which one should know to accomplish it

[MIchael80]

28 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

 

I don't know about that, but from the Wuzhen Pian

 

 

Gold elixir = your true nature. 

 

If you think vitality = no grey hair, I would ask for a living proof of that, do you have a pic of a master who has the realization of a Buddha and no grey hair? 

Hi! 

 

That is not true from what i have been taught.

While there are some Neidan texts that suggest that golden elixir is the true nature others dont. 

 

What one has to understand is that neidan texts are alchemical texts meaning they are mostly useless without lineage or divine inspiration (very rare).

In the same way one cannot make the external elixir (the philosophers stone) from reading texts about it one cannot get anywhere or understand much when reading alchemical texts without teacher and direct experience. 

 

The golden elixir reveals!!! ...  the true nature in a deeply embodied way because it is the merging of xing and ming.....meaning the deepest form of inner division is neutralized .... xing = preheaven yin, ming = preheaven yang.

 

Ancient neidan does not talk about returning to the Dao but about repairing it within the bodymind (through the merging of xing and ming).

 

At the same time the golden elixir makes one earth immortal which means the physical body lasts for a really long time. 

 

Much here appreciated freeform had known a living immortal master (they appear not only in daoism but also in Tamil siddha tradition or the wizzars tradition of Burmese).

[SodaChanh]

6 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

meaning the deepest form of inner division is neutralized

 

Tension is dissolved? 

 

This is exactly what I am talking about. 

[SodaChanh]

15 minutes ago, MIchael80 said:

Ancient neidan does not talk about returning to the Dao but about repairing it within the bodymind (through the merging of xing and ming).

 

Your master has fully original hair color? 

 

Who is he / she? 

[SodaChanh]

There's the Golden Elixir and the Gold Elixir😁

 

 

[Antares]

1 hour ago, MIchael80 said:

The golden elixir reveals!!! ...  the true nature in a deeply embodied way because it is the merging of xing and ming.....meaning the deepest form of inner division is neutralized

Not everything so simple, I just checked some texts - in the beginning it is just elixir when one joins xing and ming.

Golden one is next stage and requires embryo breathing. This is not just Awareness

[stirling]

22 hours ago, Antares said:

I doubt that modern Buddhist understand, for example, what is Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya. The second one they may be realize but what is the first one, you know it?  

 

Don't forget the nirmanakaya! The concept is akin to the Holy Trinity or Sat Chit Ananda. While there are three "qualities" listed, what they constitute does not really exist as a set of separate things, only a way of thinking or discussing about how it might appear to be. Ultimately sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya both arise in, and have never been separate from, the dharmakaya, the empty field of arising and passing phenomena and therefore have no real existence of their own. 

 

Maybe I already knew what they were, or maybe I looked it up... how would you know? In the end, it isn't important. These exist as a relative concept, a teaching tool for trying to understand the ineffable. It doesn't really constitute the kind of gnowledge that actually matters. The knowledge that is ultimately important... is ultimately transformative, is realization of the Dao/Emptiness/Nature of mind/Enlightenment. A better question, in my opinion, would be: Can you see unlabeled arising and passing phenomena of the Dao/Enlightenment in this moment in the body/field of the dharmakaya? 

 

Ultimately Buddhism, Daoism, etc., etc. are only conceptual windows into something that HAS no separateness to discuss. 

 

Quote

“The awakened mind is turned upside down and does not accord even with the Buddha-wisdom.” - Hui Hai

 

[stirling]

2 hours ago, SodaChanh said:

If you think vitality = no grey hair, I would ask for a living proof of that, do you have a pic of a master who has the realization of a Buddha and no grey hair? 

 

For what its worth, all of the Buddhas (with remainder) I know have grey hair.

 

Quote

Traditional sources distinguish between two types of nirvana: sopadhishesa-nirvana literally "nirvana with a remainder", attained and maintained during life, and parinirvana or anupadhishesa-nirvana, meaning "nirvana without remainder" or final nirvana (attained after the bodily death of a fully enlightened person). - Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)#Etymology_and_meaning

[SodaChanh]

2 minutes ago, stirling said:

Ultimately Buddhism, Daoism, etc., etc. are only conceptual windows into something that HAS no separateness to discuss. 

 

Yes but each tradition on a practical level differs. To arrive at destination B can done driving a Ferrari or a Toyota. 

 

I think each tradition has something to offer. For example some Daoist practices can be studied by scientists to reverse aging. 

 

Dzogchen practices to study the brain or tension in the body. It could be the effect could be mimicked by a sound device etc etc. 

 

Who knows really. 

[Antares]

23 minutes ago, stirling said:

Don't forget the nirmanakaya! The concept is akin to the Holy Trinity or Sat Chit Ananda.

I disagree with you here

Quote

Sambhogakāya is a "subtle body of limitless form".^[ Buddhas such as Bhaisajyaguru and Amitābha, as well as advanced bodhisattvas such as Avalokiteśvara and Manjusri can appear in an "enjoyment-body."^{[citation needed]} A Buddha can appear in an "enjoyment-body" to teach bodhisattvas through visionary experiences

 

25 minutes ago, stirling said:

While there are three "qualities"

Well, they say about "body" and not just quality

 

26 minutes ago, stirling said:

In the end, it isn't important. These exist as a relative concept

No, it is not just concept. May be in modern Buddhism there are many concepts but in Daoist teaching there is always some form of "energy" behind all phenomena

[SodaChanh]

14 minutes ago, Antares said:

I disagree with you here

 

Well, they say about "body" and not just quality

 

No, it is not just concept. May be in modern Buddhism there are many concepts but in Daoist teaching there is always some form of "energy" behind all phenomena

Did you look at the guided meditation? 

[stirling]

30 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

I think each tradition has something to offer. For example some Daoist practices can be studied by scientists to reverse aging. 

 

Dzogchen practices to study the brain or tension in the body. It could be the effect could be mimicked by a sound device etc etc. 

 

Who knows really. 

 

Relative teachings DO often have secondary effects that make it more comfortable to be a person in the world, I agree. Meditation, for example (where there is allowing stillness to well up in experience) will absolutely make a person calmer, and less reactive, as well as slowly infusing everyday life with a simple joy, over time where it is done as a daily practice.

 

Having said that,  these non-dual teachings aren't really intended to encourage you to get lost in siddhis, they point a MUCH larger shift in understanding that has much greater value.

[Antares]

4 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

Did you look at the guided meditation? 

Yes, he mentioned Dharmakaya only that refers to Xing or Taiji. But this method is Xing cultivation from Daoist perspective

Edited December 27, 2025 by Antares

[ChiDragon]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

the more ming one obtains the better chance for good reincarnation

I don't mind you always telling me that I am wrong. How about given me a chance to say that you are right?

How can you get more ming(命)? You still didn't tell me what ming is by your definition. 

[SodaChanh]

4 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yes, he mentioned Dharmakaya only that refers to Xing or Taiji. But this method is Xing cultivation from Daoist perspective

 

Well I asked Awareness directly how to reverse my grey hair with a practice. The closest answer translated to mind language I could give is 'Love' 😁 

 

So there you have a Ming practice. 

 

[stirling]

18 minutes ago, Antares said:

I disagree with you here

 

Yeah.... sure. So, why then?

 

18 minutes ago, Antares said:

Well, they say about "body" and not just quality

 

A "Body" is the way it appears.

 

18 minutes ago, Antares said:

No, it is not just concept. May be in modern Buddhism there are many concepts but in Daoist teaching there is always some form of "energy" behind all phenomena

 

How does that energy appear to you in this moment?