Western Origins of Yijing?

[Cobie]

edited

 

Christians, were called "of the Way” (Acts 9:2)

[τῆς Ὁδοῦ https://biblehub.com/text/acts/9-2.htm]

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Cobie

[心神 ~]

13 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Early Christians, were called "the Way” (Acts 9:2)

 

 

Well, followers of the Way.

 

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Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

 

Acts 9:2

 

Apparently in Greek, Acts 9:2 uses the noun ὁδός (hodos), “way / road / path,” with the article: τινας ὄντας τῆς ὁδοῦ. Literally: “any being of the Way.”

 

Unrelated to the OP, this story pretty strongly indicates that Saul is a false prophet.

 

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23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

 

Matthew 24:23-26 (Jesus speaking)

 

Saul claims he met Jesus in the wilderness, declares himself the 13 apostle, and begins to preach "the Gospel." His conversion story is clearly built on the same skeleton as Balaam and the donkey, in Numbers 22: a religious man on the road, sure he’s doing God’s work, actually moving against what God wants, blocked by a divine encounter, confronted with “why are you doing this to me?” and then forced into a new path. Initially, Balaam speaks real oracles from God, but later becomes greedy and dangerous, leading others astray. 

 

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21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. 22 But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. 23 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.

 

24 Then the angel of the Lord stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. 25 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.

 

26 Then the angel of the Lord moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. 28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”

 

Numbers 22:21-28

 

[Cobie]

 

22 minutes ago, 心神 ~ said:

Well, followers of the Way. ...

 

Thanks for spotting that, I have edited it.  

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Cobie

[Nungali]

On 12/10/2025 at 11:11 AM, Taomeow said:

Yes, geography is in the eye of the beholder.  ...

 

 

We have a coastal town  further south , right on the coast,  out on a type of peninsular  called  ' South West Rocks ' 

 

 

 

 

sometimes I visit and a few times I have asked , ''What is South West Rocks, south west of ? ''   Most look blank, or laugh or dont understand the question  ?  

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

We have a coastal town  further south , right on the coast,  out on a type of peninsular  called  ' South West Rocks ' 

 

 

 

 

sometimes I visit and a few times I have asked , ''What is South West Rocks, south west of ? ''   Most look blank, or laugh or dont understand the question  ?  

 

Looks like it's not south west of anything at all...  well, maybe something on that coast that is not as south west as this place.   Some stray rock to the northeast of those rocks?..  

 

However, this only concerns Western maps which, for reasons of the West not having had the yin-yang revelation and its relevance to us humans (who have our cold feet below, interfacing the earth, and our hot heads above, interfacing the Sun), counterintuitively place South (yang, the top, overhead stuff, where the Sun is in relation to everything on earth) on the bottom, and North (yin, the below, underfoot, where the sun don't shine) on top.  Not so on taoist maps.  In the canonical taoist Luoshu layout southwest is not far from where that South West Rocks is...  perhaps a feng shui master was the one who named that place?  

 

In any event, I feel compelled to insert an interlude depicting a delightful case of a Western influence on a member of an Eastern culture. (They are not all delightful IMO, far from it...  but this one is.)

 

   

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Taomeow

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Looks like it's not south west of anything at all...  well, maybe something on that coast that is not as south west as this place.   Some stray rock to the northeast of those rocks?..  

 

New Caledonia ?   Captain Cook sailing  north and looking back ? 

 

It seems (after more research )  it was a navigational direction ; 'Keep those rocks to your south west ' . 

 

Spoiler

 and no nothing as 'juicy' as Captain Cook .... but equally 'infamous' for our history ; the navigational aid was for ships early landings at 'Trail Bay Jail '     a jail for housing people of 'suspect ethnicity '    eg , one guy ( whose prisoner profile I read in the museum there ) was incarcerated there at beginning of WW I  ( like  many  others  were  ) due to the 'issue' that he had a German grandfather  !  

 

Now its a ruin  with kangas as the only residents ;

 

 

 

This reminds me iof anothe issue with Capt Cook though ..... but I better split to new thread for that .

 

 

Quote

 

However, this only concerns Western maps which, for reasons of the West not having had the yin-yang revelation and its relevance to us humans (who have our cold feet below, interfacing the earth, and our hot heads above, interfacing the Sun), counterintuitively place South (yang, the top, overhead stuff, where the Sun is in relation to everything on earth) on the bottom, and North (yin, the below, underfoot, where the sun don't shine) on top.  Not so on taoist maps.  In the canonical taoist Luoshu layout southwest is not far from where that South West Rocks is...  perhaps a feng shui master was the one who named that place?  

 

 Maybe a Feng Shui navigator in   the  Zeng He  expedition   

 

 

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

New Caledonia ?   Captain Cook sailing  north and looking back ? 

 

 

I grew up with a song (by a brilliant singing poet) dedicated to musing about the reasons Captain Cook got eaten...  though apparently modern revisions deny it.  In any event, I am quite foggy on his route so I wouldn't be able to say if he be sailing north before, after, or instead of being eaten.

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 Maybe a Feng Shui navigator in   the  Zeng He  expedition   

 

 

  That's a possibility. (Have you read 1421 or 1434 by any chance?)   

 

[Nungali]

27 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I grew up with a song (by a brilliant singing poet) dedicated to musing about the reasons Captain Cook got eaten...  though apparently modern revisions deny it.  In any event, I am quite foggy on his route so I wouldn't be able to say if he be sailing north before, after, or instead of being eaten.

 

It wasn't  'us' . 

 

But   ... wait for it  .... ( a Polynesian joke )  ... he weren't called 'Cook' for nothing .

 

  

 

 

27 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

 

  That's a possibility. (Have you read 1421 or 1434 by any chance?)   

 

 

 

No .... I have looked into the concept a bit though . 

 

Its an interesting subject  ;  people that came here and interacted  in various ways with the indigenous -  pre Capt Cook .  

[Nungali]

Just for fun I asked AI  

 

is there a correlation between australian indigenous moiety and the I Ching ?

 

  

 

Spoiler

AI Overview

 

 

 

While there's no direct documented correlation between Australian Indigenous moiety systems (kinship/social division) and the Chinese 

I Ching (divination text), both involve deep symbolic classification, duality (like Yin/Yang in I Ching), and structuring relationships to land, law, and community, suggesting thematic parallels in how humans organize the cosmos and society, but from entirely separate cultural origins and traditions. Aboriginal moieties focus on land, totems, and reciprocal obligations, whereas the I Ching uses hexagrams of solid/broken lines (Yin/Yang) to map cosmic change and human fortune. 

 

Australian Indigenous Moiety Systems

• Purpose: Organize kinship, marriage, ceremonial roles, and responsibilities within specific lands.
• Structure: Often dualistic (two halves, e.g., Eaglehawk/Crow), but complex systems exist across diverse groups.
• Connection: Deeply tied to country, totemic animals/plants, Dreamtime stories, and mutual obligations between groups. 

 

I Ching (Book of Changes)

• Purpose: Ancient Chinese text for divination, philosophy, understanding cosmic patterns.
• Structure: 64 hexagrams (six-line figures) composed of solid (Yang) and broken (Yin) lines, representing changing states.
• Connection: Explores universal principles of change, balance (Yin/Yang), and harmony, influencing Chinese culture, medicine, and thought. 

 

Potential (but indirect) Connections

• Duality/Balance: Both systems use fundamental opposing but complementary forces (moiety pairings, Yin/Yang) to structure reality.
• Cosmic Order: Both seek to map and understand the universe and humanity's place within it, though through vastly different lenses (land-based Law vs. universal symbols). 

In summary: Don't look for direct borrowing or shared history. Instead, recognize that complex societies, separated by vast distances and millennia, independently developed symbolic systems (moieties, I Ching) to make sense of their worlds, revealing shared human impulses to find order in duality and relationship ''

 

 

- the original base 2 moiety evolved in different places to  4,  6   and  8   

 

,,,    Values , lines and trigrams