Demonically Motivated Self Harm

[Sanity Check]

 

 

I think everyone has seen these memes.

 

But has anyone wondered why people engage in self harm? 

 

What makes a process of self harm pleasurable for people?

 

...

 

Quote

Jesus Heals Two Demon-Possessed Men

   When Jesus^[a] arrived on the other side in the region of the Gerasenes,^[b] two demon-possessed men met him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so violent that no one could travel on that road. Suddenly, they screamed, “What do you want with us, Son of God? Did you come here to torture us before the proper time?”

  Now a large herd of pigs was grazing some distance away from them. So the demons began to plead with Jesus,^[c] saying, “If you drive us out, send us into that herd of pigs.”

  He told them, “Go,” and they came out and went into the pigs. Suddenly, the whole herd rushed down a steep slope into the sea and drowned in the water.

 

Matthew 8:28-34

 

 

Having wandered far and wide, there were a few I came across who cut themselves.

 

Some were beautiful women. Others talented and smart. 

 

I had the impression demons or entities were negatively influencing people.

 

Like the swine in the bible who were possessed.

 

Giving pleasure in exchange for self harm.

 

 

 

 

[Krenx]

Generally it is rooted in craving and aversion.

 

- craving for sense pleasure 

- Aversion to neutral feelings, restlessness. 

- Aversion to pain. Self inflicted pain could temporarily redirect the mind away from the mental suffering, to the physical affliction. 

- Confusion, do not see a way out of suffering. So they end their lives, assuming death would end suffering. But it does not. 

[Lairg]

I suspect that possessing entities often reward success with pleasurable sensations and in case of failure often force the human to punish/injure itself

 

 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

But has anyone wondered why people engage in self harm? 

 

I have more than 'wondered ' ..... I did something about it !  

 

Sitting back and wondering from your perspective  .... heaven help us from what is about to unfold here ..... 

 

Quote

 

What makes a process of self harm pleasurable for people?

 

Well, there it is  ^   ..... what on earth makes you assume that self harm is a pleasurable experience ? 

 

Quote

 

Having wandered far and wide, there were a few I came across who cut themselves.

 

Some were beautiful women. Others talented and smart. 

 

I had the impression demons or entities were negatively influencing people.

 

Like the swine in the bible who were possessed.

 

NO ... modern people that 'self harm' are not  like 'the swine in the bible who were possessed !  I mean ... my God !   Now you are comparing people who self harm with a group of pigs  ?     

 

 

Quote

 

Giving pleasure in exchange for self harm.

 

 

What does this even mean ?    The pigs ( and according to you , the self harmers , who are now in the same thing  ) got pleasure from demons in exchange for hurting themselves . 

 

 

 

Another classic 'Homer'     ' observation ' .  

Edited 22 hours ago by Nungali

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Krenx said:

Generally it is rooted in craving and aversion.

 

- craving for sense pleasure 

- Aversion to neutral feelings, restlessness. 

- Aversion to pain. Self inflicted pain could temporarily redirect the mind away from the mental suffering, to the physical affliction. 

- Confusion, do not see a way out of suffering. So they end their lives, assuming death would end suffering. But it does not. 

 

Thank you for pointing that out and trying to educate our resident Homer Simpson here .

[Sanity Check]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, there it is  ^   ..... what on earth makes you assume that self harm is a pleasurable experience ? 

 

 

 

I talked to some who cut themselves, they said they feel better after self harming.

 

That may be the consensus which is why many are repeat offenders.

 

I always thought there might be a demon or entity influencing them as self harm providing relief or acting as a mood enhancer doesn't seem like a normal thing. 

 

 

Quote

 

NO ... modern people that 'self harm' are not  like 'the swine in the bible who were possessed !  I mean ... my God !   Now you are comparing people who self harm with a group of pigs  ?     

 

 

 

Did you read the bible verse?
 

The demons had possessed two men. Jesus cast them out into a herd of swine who ran off a cliff and died.

 

This is meant to illustrate demonic possession resulting in self destructive / suicidal behavior patterns.

 

Pigs being less resistant to demonic influence means they instantly self destruct.

 

People having a higher tolerance might make the process take longer, but the end result could be the same.

 

There is a long list of behavior patterns that are self destructive. Cutting is one. There are many other patterns which not many realize.

 

It isn't obvious but there are biblical verses that reinforce all of this.

Edited 19 hours ago by Sanity Check

[Sanity Check]

 

 

There are also decades of demonically possessed hollywood characters engaging in self harm and various forms of self mutilation.

 

Why does the above have pins sticking out of his head?
 

Maybe demons possessing him give him pleasure in exchange for self destructive, self harming, tendencies?

[Nungali]

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

I talked to some who cut themselves, they said they feel better after self harming.

 

That does not mean it was pleasurable . I felt better after getting a hip replacement  ... do you think that and the recovery were 'pleasurable ' ? 

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

That may be the consensus which is why many are repeat offenders.

 

A 'consensus' based on one lone experience  with one  misinterpreted  comment . 

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

I always thought there might be a demon or entity influencing them as self harm providing relief or acting as a mood enhancer isn't a normal thing. 

 

Oh ... a 'mood enhancer' now is it ?    

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Did you read the bible verse?

 

Yes. 

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

The demons had possessed two men. Jesus cast them out into a herd of swine who ran off a cliff and died.

 

That doesnt mean people who self harm are like pigs .

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

This is meant to illustrate demonic possession resulting in self destructive / suicidal behavior patterns.

 

Its meant to demonstrate that Jesus can cast out demons 

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Pigs being less resistant to demonic influence means they instantly self destruct.

 

Where did that idea come from ? 

 

Think about what pigs meant to Judaism . and remember the pigs 'asked for it '  

 

'' Ultimately, the narrative is not generally interpreted as establishing a universal law about pigs' susceptibility to possession, but rather as a unique event with specific theological and cultural significance within the biblical accounts''

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

People having a higher tolerance might make the process take longer, but the end result could be the same.

 

There is a long list of behavior patterns that are self destructive. Cutting is one. There are many other patterns which not many realize.

 

And there are MANY reasons why people might cut themselves  

 

 

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

It isn't obvious but there are many biblical verses that reinforce all of this.

 

No they dont .... its your own  'unusual'  interpretations that reinforce your own opinions . 

 

'' Like so many other examples of storytelling in the Bible, we are told of actions and statements but are left to figure out the connecting tissue of meaning and context ourselves. So we must be very careful about how we interpret the story. We will be tempted to project our own theories, prejudices, and ideas onto it.'' 

 

https://www.wholefaithlivingearth.com/demons-and-pigs-fresh-look/#:~:text=and their demise?-,Yes.,to remain in the area.

 

 

What is needed is associated knowledge  about the time, place and  Jesus and a comparative study  to gain insight  . 

[Nungali]

ya know what ? originally in composing the above I added 

 

'' What is needed is associated knowledge  about the time, place and  Jesus and a comparative study  to gain insight  .   Not some self 'understood modern BS from you and those movies you watch and compare everything  to 

 

which I removed as it seemed  I was being too harsh  ...... but there you go again ... 

 

'' 

There are also decades of demonically possessed hollywood characters engaging in self harm and various forms of self mutilation.

 

Why does the above have pins sticking out of his head?
 

Maybe demons possessing him give him pleasure in exchange for self destructive, self harming, tendencies? ''

 

and maybe ....  you can postulate anything ... maybe he was a pin cushion in his past life 

 

ya know, you can look things up , instead of  this weird 'supposin's ' you keep coming up with  that are tied in with some aberrant 'Christian' view . 

 

''  Director Clive Barker drew inspiration from his visits to underground S&M clubs, where he saw people with extreme body piercings, and from the visceral imagery found in Catholic religious art. Other influences included books depicting African fetishes with many piercings and the need for "repulsive glamour" in the creatures' design. 

[Nungali]

Maybe you mean to ask 'why are some people self-destructive'  ? 

[Sanity Check]

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

That doesnt mean people who self harm are like pigs .

 

 

 

Have you ever heard of pigs being used in medical experiments due to their biology being similar to humans?

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Its meant to demonstrate that Jesus can cast out demons 

 

 

The Apostles could do that.

 

This story has a different meaning.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Where did that idea come from ? 

 

 

And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

 

Genesis 3:22

 

(Pigs not knowing good / evil therefore - lower resistance to demonic influence than ppl)

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Think about what pigs meant to Judaism . and remember the pigs 'asked for it '  

 

 

 

The pigs asked for _______?

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

And there are MANY reasons why people might cut themselves  

 

 

 

Perhaps their culture is demonically influenced.

 

 

[Sanity Check]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Maybe you mean to ask 'why are some people self-destructive'  ? 

 

 

Fyodor Dostoevsky did a decent job explaining it.

 

Proverbs in the bible did it even better.

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Have you ever heard of pigs being used in medical experiments due to their biology being similar to humans?

 

I have , but what has that got to do with it ?    Do they study pigs to understand those people that self harm ?   Try using logic . 

 

 

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

The Apostles could do that.

 

and by what authority ? 

 

The apostles cast out demons by the authority given to them by Jesus, operating through the power of the Holy Spirit. This was done by commanding spirits to leave "in Jesus' name," relying on Jesus' authority and the power of the Holy Spirit, rather than their own strength.

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

This story has a different meaning.

 

 

 

 

And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

 

Genesis 3:22

 

(Pigs not knowing good / evil therefore - lower resistance to demonic influence than ppl)

 

 

 

So the reason is .... because of genesis   . 

 

 

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

The pigs asked for _______?

 

It seems like YOU are one that has not read that Bible passage ! 

 

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Perhaps their culture is demonically influenced.

 

 

That must be it .... anyone with a cut scar ...... demon .... anyone not Christian ....  demon . 

 

Australian Aboriginals with a suite of variant cultures , who exhibited  40,000 + years of peaceful coexistence in their environment without wrecking it , and  who have  worldwide recognized cultures of rich spirituality ..... must be demon possessed to fit in with your own  entirely narrow view  

 

 

You do this all the time .... postulate weird 'quicksand' and then sink deeper and deeper the more you try to wiggle out or justify the 'stuff' you say . 

[Nungali]

6 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Fyodor Dostoevsky did a decent job explaining it.

 

Proverbs in the bible did it even better.

 

Oh Gawd , I cant think what you might come up with to justify that one !  

 

You constantly cite early Iron Age collated 'scripture' as having relevence in todsay's ssociety ... even Christians that agree with you about people self harming due to demonic possession  say it relates to that time and self harm is a different kettle of fish ; 

 

Self-harm as we generally talk about it today is deliberate harm to one's body as a way to deal with emotional pain, anger, or frustration. Some describe feeling numb and harming themselves to at least feel something. For some the physical pain induced by self-injury functions as a brief release of emotional pain or other emotional energy. For others, the physical pain is a distraction from emotional pain they are feeling. Some use self-harm as a means of punishing themselves for a perceived fault; for others, the harm is related to feeling a sense of control over one's body, emotions, or life circumstances. Some people self-harm a few times and stop; for others, it becomes a pattern of behavior. Though self-harm is usually not done with suicidal intention, the intensity of the harming behavior can increase. While the act of self-harm may temporarily resolve the emotional angst, the relief is generally short-lived. Guilt and shame often follow. (www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/self-injury/symptoms-causes/syc-20350950, accessed 1/28/2021; and www.covingtonbh.com/disorders/self-harm/signs-symptoms/, accessed 1/28/2021.)

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-self-mutilation.html

[Sanity Check]

47 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

There are also decades of demonically possessed hollywood characters engaging in self harm and various forms of self mutilation.

 

Why does the above have pins sticking out of his head?
 

Maybe demons possessing him give him pleasure in exchange for self destructive, self harming, tendencies?

 

 

BTW @Nungali

 

If you find this topic interesting can you reply to the above.

 

I thought I was sharing fossil relics that were old news in this thread.

 

Thought everyone knew this old stuff already.

 

Did not cross my mind this might be controversial.

Edited 17 hours ago by Sanity Check

[Nungali]

16 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

BTW @Nungali

 

If you find this topic interesting can you reply to the above.

 

I did . I posted the directors reason the character appeared that way and what the influences on him were . It seems you are not even reading my responses . 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

I thought I was sharing fossil relics that were old news in this thread.

 

Thought everyone knew this old stuff already.

 

Did not cross my mind this might be controversial.

 

You are  still doing it ;  what 'stuff'   , what is 'old news' ? What are you actually talking about ? 

 

if you mean demonic possession and the claims some disturbed people make  about such 'demons' urging them to self harm and other negative things , yes , that is old news and there are many posts on it . 

 

You cant seem to comprehend that it might be YOUR weird 'Christian' take on things  and your choice to ''Homer Simpsonize'''  everything you seem to put your hand to .... is actually what any 'controversy'  here is about ..... if you can comprehend that . 

 

[Sanity Check]

49 minutes ago, Nungali said:

ya know what ? originally in composing the above I added 

 

'' What is needed is associated knowledge  about the time, place and  Jesus and a comparative study  to gain insight  .   Not some self 'understood modern BS from you and those movies you watch and compare everything  to 

 

which I removed as it seemed  I was being too harsh  ...... but there you go again ... 

 

'' 

There are also decades of demonically possessed hollywood characters engaging in self harm and various forms of self mutilation.

 

Why does the above have pins sticking out of his head?
 

Maybe demons possessing him give him pleasure in exchange for self destructive, self harming, tendencies? ''

 

and maybe ....  you can postulate anything ... maybe he was a pin cushion in his past life 

 

ya know, you can look things up , instead of  this weird 'supposin's ' you keep coming up with  that are tied in with some aberrant 'Christian' view . 

 

''  Director Clive Barker drew inspiration from his visits to underground S&M clubs, where he saw people with extreme body piercings, and from the visceral imagery found in Catholic religious art. Other influences included books depicting African fetishes with many piercings and the need for "repulsive glamour" in the creatures' design. 

 

 

Looks like you copied and pasted rather than quoting & so it did not register & so I did not see it.

 

"S & M clubs."  

 

You appear to be contending self harm and self destructive tendencies are not symptoms of demonic possession.

 

Demons are like puppies that only wanted a hug.

 

Heh.

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Looks like you copied and pasted rather than quoting & so it did not register & so I did not see it.

 

"S & M clubs."  

 

You appear to be contending self harm and self destructive tendencies are not symptoms of demonic possession.

 

Only to you and only due to not reading what I posted clearly previously ! 

 

'' if you mean demonic possession and the claims some disturbed people make  about such 'demons' urging them to self harm and other negative things , yes , that is old news and there are many posts on it . ''

 

I am contending that such actions do NOT make people like the pigs in the Bible . Again it is NOT the subject matter but your misinterpretation of things  from an ancient source for ancient people and trying to nut it out , in your isolated view ( ie, not in context and with limited information / knowledge  and try to substitute that with your own limited social experience , which seems half  pop cult movies , cartoons, gaming and ill-informed youtubes 

 

 

1 minute ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Demons are like puppies that only wanted a hug.

 

Heh.

 

Thats about as funny to a mentally disturbed by 'demons' person as it is to say those with modern problems of self harm are like pigs in the Bible and need a 'Jesus exorcism ' . 

[Nungali]

try this .... I am currently reading it as I respond here ; 

 

More Things in Heaven and Earth: Spirit Possession, Mental Disorder, and Intentionality,

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10912-018-9519-z#:~:text=And this actually does occur,is possessed by that spirit.

 

 

.

Edited 16 hours ago by Nungali

[Sanity Check]

21 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

I am contending that such actions do NOT make people like the pigs in the Bible . Again it is NOT the subject matter but your misinterpretation of things  from an ancient source for ancient people and trying to nut it out , in your isolated view ( ie, not in context and with limited information / knowledge  and try to substitute that with your own limited social experience , which seems half  pop cult movies , cartoons, gaming and ill-informed youtubes 

 

 

 

Time will tell.

 

But I think you're missing the point.

 

It is the self destructive tendencies that matter most.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Thats about as funny to a mentally disturbed by 'demons' person as it is to say those with modern problems of self harm are like pigs in the Bible and need a 'Jesus exorcism ' . 

 

 

Who says they need or even want an exorcism?

 

And who says there is anyone on planet earth with the power to cast out demons in 2025?

 

There might be no one with that kind of ability.

[Nungali]

Do tell then what this 'point' is ( and the whole point of this thread is ) ? 

 

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Who says they need or even want an exorcism?

 

And who says there is anyone on planet earth with the power to cast out demons in 2025?

 

There might be no one with that kind of ability.

 

Hmmmm ... I guess you dont understand that an analogy  need not  actually be constituted as some type of specific  advice to action . 

 

ya know, your confusion is worse today than normal .

 

Not feeling a bit 'possessed ' are you ?   If so , you could always put it into a pork chop ( or a four bone rib roast ) and go throw it in the ocean . 

 

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Nungali

[Sanity Check]

12 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Do tell then what this 'point' is ( and the whole point of this thread is ) ? 

 

 

 

Its just a basic refresher on

 

1.  Demons hate God

2.  God made people, nature and the world

3.  Demons hate people, nature and the world because God made those things

4.  Therefore demonic influence is strong in those who wish to destroy people, nature and the world

5.  Self destructive tendencies are also evident in this.

 

But I probably shouldn't try to define things, its supposed to be left to the reader to meditate on things and discover on their own.

 

The reason I correlate pleasure with self harm is due to the concept demons would take pleasure in a person who is one of God's creations, harming themselves. Maybe it doesn't resemble sexual gratification but perhaps some do get positive feelings out of it. And where do those positive feels come from?

 

Just talking to randoms who cut or self harm. Without invoking religion and without them even knowing I'm a christian. They'll come out and say they feel better after doing it. 

 

Maybe the pieces fit. 

 

I don't even know what my role in any of this should be if I even have a role. 

 

Tend to think that this type of thing is well above my pay grade. 

 

I just always hope and pray both people and myself might learn to make better choices.

Edited 15 hours ago by Sanity Check

[Nungali]

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Its just a basic refresher on

 

1.  Demons hate God

 

Which one ?    That one that wants you to kill an animal, fling its blood around the holy temple , BBQ the kidneys (as thats God's fav. smell !  ), and then do a wave offering  at the threshold and let 'God' suck it up into his 'vortex' between the horns on the altar and then tell your army to pillage and plunder men women and children across the land  and take it from them . 

 

maybe that 'God' is the demon ... hmmmmm  ? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

2.  God made people, nature and the world

 

God made nature and the world for people to have dominion over ( dominate ) ..... those demon influenced Aboriginals, as you suggested , and most indigenous pre- Christians never had that concept , they lived in harmony  with it .

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

3.  Demons hate people, nature and the world because God made those things

 

yet'God' spent all that time punishing his 'chosen people' , and told them to dominate nature and the world 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

4.  Therefore demonic influence is strong in those who wish to destroy people, nature and the world

 

Thats reasonable .... if one removes the 'therefore'   and is flexible and artistic about the term 'demons' .

 

IMO the people that destroy nature and the world are those that feel they have the right to dominate it .

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

5.  Self destructive tendencies are also evident in this.

 

Of course, ask the indigenous, they knew that by harming their environment it harms themselves and their future 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

But I probably shouldn't try to define things, its supposed to be left to the reader to meditate on things and discover on their own.

 

 

Do you mean things in the Bible  ... no please !  dont try to figure that 'on your own '   ... try and get a good rational and not crazy Pastor or Minister or   something !  and some group that wont take all your money and abduct the kids 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

30 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Demons hate God

 

Long ago I read:  Demon deus inversus est

 

Demon is the inverse of God

 

If God is the Source of All, what is the inverse of God?

 

Consider the Tzimtzum

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Lairg