ChiDragon Posted Saturday at 01:25 AM In Taiji, it is very common for the advance practitioners to do push hand. Why only the advance practitioners can do push hand? Well, it is because beginners have not conditioned their bodies with enough jin(勁) to do the performance. It needs diligent practice day-by-day, month-by-month, and year-by-year to develop the jin in the body. In order to do so, Taiji practice must be done with the following conditions to be effective: Coordinate the movements with breathing and coordinate breathing with the movements. First of all, I had seen westerners practiced push hand by pushing each other very hard. I have a notion that they had misinterpret the word "push" in push hand. However, that is all wrong. That is not how Taiji practitioners do push hand. It should begin with "touch and follow" manner. One hand of each partner should be just barely touch each other and moving the hands back and forth without exerting a tremendous force. The touching hands of the partners should be moving back and forth in one direction. In other words, it is a push-pull motion which has the yin-yang effect. One moves forward(not push with force) while the other moves backward repeatedly. The idea was to feel or sense the force when it was exerted by the partner. The method was called "Ting Jin," listening to the force. The time to fajin is when you sensed a slight pushing force against your hand from the partner. When this happens, you pull and guide the partner's hand away from your body. Let the partner moving along in the direction of the moving force. This is called "took advantage of the opposing force to counterattack." I don't know did I say that right? Perhaps someone can put it in better English for me! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krenx Posted Saturday at 05:09 AM The purpose and function of push hands is what's important. In a nutshell, is to cultivate the application of jins, the internal power methods of Taiji Quan; to draw out that quality. Because that is its goal and function, the conditions required to polish this skill are very specific. It does require at least one of the partners to be somewhat advanced, and both sides again seeking the same goals. Random physical grabbing and pushing around with chaotic forces with the goal to "win" some balance contest, will not develop this kung fu. It will not lead to any investigation or depth. Will not uncover phenomenas unique to taiji's Jin. There is a long list of conditions to do with the body structure alignment, the quality of the muscles, joints, nervous system, the rules around meeting force by not butting or throwing away/aversion etc. Maintaining these conditions will force the Jin to surface for appreciation, cultivation, investigation. There are overall things to listen and attend to for any jins. And some specific jins, you stack on more conditions to attend to, and when you start flowing from one jin to the other, you attend to yin yang transformations within various layers of energies along with the physical body. From push hands, how does one apply this in combat? You put on gloves, and do sparring/ fighting like any other martial art. And you apply the kung fu you have developed, learn from it, and go back to push hands to refine the kung fu, and repeat that process. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Saturday at 01:49 PM 12 hours ago, ChiDragon said: In Taiji, it is very common for the advance practitioners to do push hand. Why only the advance practitioners can do push hand? Well, it is because beginners have not conditioned their bodies with enough jin(勁) to do the performance. It needs diligent practice day-by-day, month-by-month, and year-by-year to develop the jin in the body. In order to do so, Taiji practice must be done with the following conditions to be effective: Coordinate the movements with breathing and coordinate breathing with the movements. First of all, I had seen westerners practiced push hand by pushing each other very hard. I have a notion that they had misinterpret the word "push" in push hand. However, that is all wrong. That is not how Taiji practitioners do push hand. It should begin with "touch and follow" manner. One hand of each partner should be just barely touch each other and moving the hands back and forth without exerting a tremendous force. The touching hands of the partners should be moving back and forth in one direction. In other words, it is a push-pull motion which has the yin-yang effect. One moves forward(not push with force) while the other moves backward repeatedly. The idea was to feel or sense the force when it was exerted by the partner. The method was called "Ting Jin," listening to the force. The time to fajin is when you sensed a slight pushing force against your hand from the partner. When this happens, you pull and guide the partner's hand away from your body. Let the partner moving along in the direction of the moving force. This is called "took advantage of the opposing force to counterattack." I don't know did I say that right? Perhaps someone can put it in better English for me! It's very common to see beginners to push hands too; that is most of them online. Most Push Hands we see online are beginners. That doesn't mean they're doing it well, but hey... everyone sucks when they start learning something, gotta start somewhere. Well, pushing each other hard is not a westerner thing. It's both west and east. As for misinterpreting "Push" in Push Hands..., well, I see that a lot in Yang Style where their idea of "Fa Jin" is basically "Fa Tui" (Unleash Push). First thing shows up if I just type in "Yang Fa Jin" on YouTube: As for using the opponent's push to then pull them... that's not Fa Jin. That's just (if I am understanding correctly) just Lu Jin. I find that modern Yang Style tends to define "Fa Jin" to basically mean "using Jin". Any ordinary thing they do is suddenly called "Fa Jin". Here's why I specify "modern Yang Style". It didn't used to be this way. Here is a passage from Fu Zhongwen's book; Fu Zhongwen is Yang Chengfu's disciple, starting at the age of 9 and been under Yang Chengfu for like 20 years: Quote In his later years, Shaohou began to change his form: a high frame with lively steps, movements gathered up small, alternating between fast and slow, hard and crisp fajin, with sudden shouts, eyes glaring brightly, flashing like lightning, a cold smile and cunning expression. There were sounds of “heng and ha,” and an intimidating demeanor. The special characteristics of Shaohou’s art were: using soft to overcome hard, utilization of sticking and following, victorious fajin Sound familiar? This doesn't sound like Yang Style at all. This description is what we would expect from Chen Style. Hard and crisp? That doesn't like today's Yang Style. Here is Fu Zhongwen's grandson.... oh hey... now that's Fa Jin like... every other Chinese martial art, welcome to the club: This is the very thing (solo explosive release of power) that many today's Yang style practitioners would have said is wrong or external. They say Fa Jin can only be done with a partner, not solo. Fa Jin also does not depend on the opponent pushing. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krenx Posted Saturday at 05:22 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: It's very common to see beginners to push hands too; that is most of them online. Most Push Hands we see online are beginners. That doesn't mean they're doing it well, but hey... everyone sucks when they start learning something, gotta start somewhere. Truth is beginners CAN do push hands correctly. They again just need to follow the instructions property, to maintain certain strict conditions so Jin can start to emerge, even if it is very subtle. Drawing Jin out, and discerning its difference from pure Physical mechanical strength is the most important job for anyone starting out Taiji Quan. And all exercises pointing to that initial goal. A good teacher can speed this up, but simply demonstrating physical strength and internal power often on students to appreciate the difference experientially. 5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: As for using the opponent's push to then pull them... that's not Fa Jin. That IS a type of Fa Jin. The old styles of the wang yong quan/ yang jian hou lineages recognize it as such. I'm curious where you read that isn't fajin? 5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: I find that modern Yang Style tends to define "Fa Jin" to basically mean "using Jin". Any ordinary thing they do is suddenly called "Fa Jin". Fa = Express or issue. Jin = The flavor of power relative to the yin yang permutation of energy. So by definition, any flavor of taji quan power that is expressed is Fajin fundamentally speaking. Fajin means Jin expressed. 5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: This is the very thing (solo explosive release of power) that many today's Yang style practitioners would have said is wrong or external. They say Fa Jin can only be done with a partner, not solo. Yes, often the term Fa Jin is ALSO to describe the phenomena of an explosive release of power, reaction. It is wrong if it is through mechanical physical movements only. It is CORRECT if it is internally driven. Fajin can be done solo, and the partner in that case is gravity and yourself. 5 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: Fa Jin also does not depend on the opponent pushing. It does depend on force to be triggered in some way. So that could include opponent's force to trigger a flow and connection, or if practicing on your own, gravity to assist in that trigger. But just saying does not depend on opponent is incorrect. If there is an opponent in front of you, you should respect that reality. It is IDEAL to depend on the opponent's force. No1 it is energy efficient, no2 borrowing the opponent's force is needed to create a CONNECTION to the opponent, so the Jin can be Fa into the opponent. Without connection, the force/jin will not penetrate properly. To fajin, or just fight without respecting the opponent's forces or existence, is not a good way for anyone to fight. The "Force" you borrow, is not just the physical force. Jin is not just a physical thing. Borrowing opponent's force in taiji quan involves a process before the touch, during the touch, after the touch. If you can grasp that, taiji quan will make a lot more sense. From Yang Cheng Fu lineages onwards, alot of the old teachings and flavors of yang style has been lost. Practitioners started hiding their lack of kung fu behind their fixed forms, hiding behind tradition and culture. That is the modern taiji that started to serve "forms" and heritage, instead of refining the actual Kung fu. I've touched hands with Liang de hua, and trained with lineages of Yang cheng fu, and Wang yong quan. So my experience on the matter is quite hands on. On this journey you'll start to see which training methods betray you over the years, and which ones develops your kung fu proper and can be tested in the field directly. Edited Saturday at 07:49 PM by Krenx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Saturday at 06:17 PM First of all, Tuishou is Tuishou. Fajin is Fajin. Fajin is an application used in tuishou. Jin has to be conditioned in the body by practicing the basic Taiji movements diligently. Fajin can be practiced solo. However, push-hand has to be with a partner in order to be able to listen to the jin of the opponent. If a body doesn't have any Jin in it cannot fajin. Fajin is a high level of practice. As for beginners, they better concentrate on practicing the basic movements, diligently, to condition their bodies to develop Jin in the muscles. In other words, what I am saying was one cannot run before learning how to walk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Saturday at 10:35 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, Krenx said: That IS a type of Fa Jin. The old styles of the wang yong quan/ yang jian hou lineages recognize it as such. I'm curious where you read that isn't fajin? Fa = Express or issue. Jin = The flavor of power relative to the yin yang permutation of energy. So by definition, any flavor of taji quan power that is expressed is Fajin fundamentally speaking. Fajin means Jin expressed. Well, what you have explained is actually exactly what I just said when I mentioned that Yang just redefined the terms; other martial arts do not mean it that way. Look at the Chinese here. 發火 (fā huǒ) - this is an every day Chinese term that basically means EXPLOSIVE RAGE AND ANGER! The loss of temper. Flaring up! When a tiger mother gets angry and beats up their child, we would say the mother "fā huǒ". The literal translation would mean "to issue fire". 發電 (fā diàn) - this is an every day Chinese term. Maybe someone touches a door knob and "OW!" Static electric shock. Sudden. OUCH! That is the connotation of fā in the Chinese language. In English, when you translate it, the connotation suddenly becomes... "Oh... you just want me to... express myself?" All of a sudden, the connotation of fā is gone. Now let's suppose... you want to use the English connotation of the translation, that rather... defeats the purpose of the term existing because every movement should have Jin involved. The term just got downgraded to mean "any usage of Jin". If the Chinese folks really meant that... they would have said yòng jìn (用勁) instead. If we follow the logic that fā (發) simply means 'to express,' then we should be able to apply it to other things. For instance, the word for 'kiss' is 'qīn' (亲). So, could I say 'fā qīn' to mean 'express a kiss'? Of course not. Any Chinese speaker would laugh at that. It sounds ridiculous, like you're shooting a kiss out of a cannon. The idea that Fa Jin requires an opponent to do something is also just silly because... magically, you are unable to hit someone in the face unless the opponent did something first? Like... not even a feint? Edited Saturday at 11:06 PM by FluffyGuardian 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted Sunday at 01:35 AM 2 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said: The idea that Fa Jin requires an opponent to do something is also just silly because... magically, you are unable to hit someone in the face unless the opponent did something first? Like... not even a feint? I think this, like most things taiji, is misunderstood both in terminology and in application by quite a few. My teacher had me fajin him vs. fajin a pillar supporting a beam in his practice room, by way of explaining the difference hands on. Yes, of course you can fajin without an opponent, who's to stop you if you have the know-how. And no, that pillar didn't give me anything to use against it, I could only rely on my very own resources. Whereas a live opponent is going to give you something you can appropriate and turn against him (if you have the know-how of course.) Don't use your own resources is the golden rule of good push-hands. The highly skilled practitioner won't give you anything though. Moreover, they will create a perfect sensory illusion of "nothing there" -- try using fajin against a cloud, a swath of fog, a tactile emptiness... Very educational. So that pillar does give you something after all -- its own hardness which it is unable to soften, let alone to the point of disappearing from all your senses except your eyesight. Are you familiar with the "bu fa" technique? 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Sunday at 03:02 PM 12 hours ago, Taomeow said: I think this, like most things taiji, is misunderstood both in terminology and in application by quite a few. My teacher had me fajin him vs. fajin a pillar supporting a beam in his practice room, by way of explaining the difference hands on. Yes, of course you can fajin without an opponent, who's to stop you if you have the know-how. And no, that pillar didn't give me anything to use against it, I could only rely on my very own resources. Whereas a live opponent is going to give you something you can appropriate and turn against him (if you have the know-how of course.) Don't use your own resources is the golden rule of good push-hands. The highly skilled practitioner won't give you anything though. Moreover, they will create a perfect sensory illusion of "nothing there" -- try using fajin against a cloud, a swath of fog, a tactile emptiness... Very educational. So that pillar does give you something after all -- its own hardness which it is unable to soften, let alone to the point of disappearing from all your senses except your eyesight. Are you familiar with the "bu fa" technique? Bu Fa technique, as in stepping methods? Well, yes. Although I am not sure if you're referring to something specific here. In regard to "The highly skilled practitioner won't give you anything though." I would point out the other side of the coin to Taijiquan skills: "The highly skilled practitioner can compel or trick the other person to give something." This is true for both Tuishou and Sanshou. Tuishou is a limited context. Tuishou teaches a specific paradigm, and it is a very useful paradigm. But a lot of it operates in a certain range. But in fighting, one has to worry about the outer ranges... the punching and kicking ranges. Against a skilled striker, that's basically where Sanshou methods would come into play. If someone is up against a Boxer, right from the start, "How can I push this guy?" shouldn't really be one's first thought. Because they're not in range. A lot of applications people show in response to a punch are very unrealistic because the punch extends... but it stays extended while the partner does things like trying to catch and grab the wrist. It is possible to "catch a punch", but... realistically, that isn't done by aiming to catch the wrist because that is too small a target; a boxer's jab is really damn fast, flickering in and out, combined with their feints and footwork. The notion of establishing sustained physical contact is much harder once the context is in Sanshou range. That is why Sanshou translates to something like Scattered/Free Hand. There is some sensitivity skill involved, but the physical contact tends to be very momentary. Like, someone punches, and you parry, there is a momentary contact. My point is that Taijiquan (traditionally) should have toolkits from the outermost range to the innermost range. And when you are in the outermost range (the kicking/punching range), Tuishou hasn't started yet. The thing with Tuishou is that practitioners are very used to having the luxury of already having sustained physical contact. Generally speaking, they are not used to the skill of engagement, going from no-contact to contact. And in Sanshou, it would be rather silly to go: "Oh wait... my opponent didn't push me... therefore, I cannot hit them." Well... this isn't Tuishou range anymore. What if the bad guy is harassing my friend or loved one? Am I going to walk to the bad guy, put my hand on him, and then wait....for him to notice my presence... and offer me a push before I can "Fa Jin"? That is a pretty lousy strategy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krenx Posted Sunday at 05:35 PM Traditionally, taiji practitioners did physical body development (specific to internal methods), push hands, and actual fighting. Some known masters tried to take their own lives back in the day because of how hard the overall training was. Specifically the transformation of the body, fascia changing methods. So modern practitioners just need to know what they are training, if it is attributes of taiji, or application of taiji Quan. And just be clear to their students, so they don't assume attribute training is the same as combat application abilities. Attributes come first. Without the attributes and kung fu, there is nothing to apply in combat. Combat does not make you better at the attributes and taiji Quan skill. It makes you better at applying what you ALREADY have. It also serves as a good tool to "measure" your kung fu attributes, and flaws, so you can be more decisive in where you spend time going back on working on in the cultivation in forms, push hands, body transformation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 06:24 PM Let's keep in mind. Before we jump into combat, we must know what is the purpose of practicing Tuishou. The prerequisite is to develop the jin in the body in the first place. How can one fajin without conditioning the body first? Why do people practice Taiji day by day? One will notice the difference in the body strength from years of practice. The increase of tremendous strength indicates that jin has been developed in the body. Now, what should one do with all the body power? The next thing is to learn how to use it and control it. So, we go into Tuishou with a partner at a same level of skill. Since jin is hard, we must learn to soften it by doing "touch and follow". To do that is by having the hands of the partners barely touching instead of pushing real hard. Even with a little tiny push by one person, the other partner should be able feel it right away. This sensation was known as Ting Jin(聼勁). Hence, that is the main purpose of practicing Tuishou. The next thing to learn is how to neutralize the incoming force. Instead of pushing against it, it was pulled and guided away from the defender's body. While pulling, at the same time, it is time to Fajin. While the offender is pushing and the defender is pulling in the same direction, that will put the offender is an off balance position. The offender will do a Fajin maneuver to do whatever it needs to be done. This is what Tuishou was all about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 06:46 PM 17 hours ago, Taomeow said: Are you familiar with the "bu fa" technique? Yes, it is very important. Bu Fa(步法) is every step you took that should and will keep one in a most stable position to maintain body balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 07:22 PM Just want to distinguish the difference between Tuishou(推手)and Sanshou(散手). In general, Tuishou involves contact the hands with a slight touch. Sanshou is MMA that involves striking, kicking, and flipping. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Sunday at 07:57 PM (edited) 34 minutes ago, ChiDragon said: Just want to distinguish the difference between Tuishou(推手)and Sanshou(散手). In general, Tuishou involves contact the hands with a slight touch. Sanshou is MMA that involves striking, kicking, and flipping. Not quite. I think you are confusing Chinese words here. Perhaps you are confusing Sanshou with the modern combat sport called Sanda. Traditional Sanshou is an application methodology that non-sport, traditional Chinese martial arts would have. That is a vocabulary some would use. They are not talking about the sport. Similarly, Taijiquan has Shuai Jiao, but that term is not referring to the modern sport called Shuai Jiao. As for Tuishou, your concept of it is very... basic. Tuishou has a lot of martial applications. The notion that it's only about sensing the opponent's push is a very... reductionist and basic level of understanding. For example, here is a Yang style practitioner practicing a traditional patterned Push Hand method, and you will see this guy (who is under Fu Zhongwen's lineage) showcasing applications: And one application we see here is also a good illustration of the difference between how Yang and Chen does it. On the left, Chen would not break contact and continues the circle. On the right, Yang just breaks contact, pushing the opponent away. Here is the Chen's version of the same patterned Push Hands: There are a lot of applications in just this 1 pattern that are lost in many Taiji schools. You will notice that the teacher said "Centerline". He didn't punish the student because he was pushing too hard. He punished his student because he crossed his centerline. Edited Sunday at 07:57 PM by FluffyGuardian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 08:43 PM 44 minutes ago, FluffyGuardian said: Not quite. I think you are confusing Chinese words here. Perhaps you are confusing Sanshou with the modern combat sport called Sanda. 散手”(也称“散打”),在现代语境下,是指一种以中国武术为基础,融合了踢、打、摔等攻防技法的徒手格斗技击项目。 Is this what you mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted Sunday at 09:03 PM 2 hours ago, ChiDragon said: Yes, it is very important. Bu Fa(步法) is every step you took that should and will keep one in a most stable position to maintain body balance. No, I didn't mean footwork. I meant "no issuing," "no expressing" technique. No fa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 09:04 PM (edited) FYI We are not looking at the different styles. The emphasis should be the technique. The guy at the left is pushing too hard with the lack of softness. That was why his opponent took advantage of him by twisting his arm with fajin. Edited Sunday at 10:09 PM by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 09:08 PM 1 minute ago, Taomeow said: No fa. OKay, you meant 不發. So, it is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Sunday at 10:13 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, ChiDragon said: 散手”(也称“散打”),在现代语境下,是指一种以中国武术为基础,融合了踢、打、摔等攻防技法的徒手格斗技击项目。 Is this what you mean? No... that Chinese sentence is what you meant, actually. You said that Sanshou means "MMA", well... that Chinese sentence is talking about the combat sport of Sanda. It's a very famous sport that's basically kickboxing with throwing and takedowns. But that is not what Sanshou means traditionally as it pertains to traditional, non-sport, Chinese martial arts. Perhaps this will convince you... Google "Yang Style Taijiquan Sanshou". I don't think it's good, but it essentially shows you that this "term" exists outside of combat sports. Some Yang practitioners apparently created Sanshou partners sets. But the fact that they call it "sanshou" should prove to you that this isn't used to mean a combat sport. As for the Chen video... that is not true at all. Whether or not the guy in the red shirt pushes hard or not, crossing the centerline will cause him be manhandled by Lie Jin. The dude does not even need to offer force. I have used it plenty of times against others. Edited Sunday at 10:17 PM by FluffyGuardian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 10:51 PM 22 minutes ago, FluffyGuardian said: As for the Chen video... that is not true at all. Whether or not the guy in the red shirt pushes hard or not, crossing the centerline will cause him be manhandled by Lie Jin. The dude does not even need to offer force. Well, there is no need to spell out everything. The first mistake he made by pushing too hard is enough to make it invalid. He violated the basic rule of push-hand. Leaning forward causing the body to cross the centerline was understood is a no no. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Sunday at 11:12 PM 44 minutes ago, FluffyGuardian said: You said that Sanshou means "MMA", I believe that Sanshou(散手) was translated or understood as MMA in English. One should not try to translate the compound characters word for word. There is a thought behind each compound character. If each character was translated, then, the idea behind the term will be lost in the translation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted Monday at 12:04 AM (edited) There are too many videos out there showing the improper way of doing Tuishou. So, this is the best demonstration I have seen so far. Please notice the softness in the arms of the practitioners at 0.57. That is the proper way how to do Tuishou. Edited Monday at 12:10 AM by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Monday at 01:01 PM (edited) 13 hours ago, ChiDragon said: I believe that Sanshou(散手) was translated or understood as MMA in English. One should not try to translate the compound characters word for word. There is a thought behind each compound character. If each character was translated, then, the idea behind the term will be lost in the translation. Oh really now... the word that predated MMA means MMA, does it? Would you like to tell us what the different martial arts being mixed together here then: Edited Monday at 01:01 PM by FluffyGuardian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyGuardian Posted Monday at 01:15 PM (edited) 13 hours ago, ChiDragon said: There are too many videos out there showing the improper way of doing Tuishou. So, this is the best demonstration I have seen so far. Please notice the softness in the arms of the practitioners at 0.57. That is the proper way how to do Tuishou. Ah, well since you like Ma Hong, he has said in an interview: "Originally, in Yang style and Wu style, they also used to practice fa jin. When Yang passed the style on to his son, they still would fa jin. But then, from the third generation on - Yang's third generation, Wu's second generation - they no longer practiced fa jin." That's because Fa Jin, in his mind, means explosive power. He said, "It is soft, yet instantly hard." And since pushing hard is wrong... do you therefore think this is wrong then? Edited Monday at 01:16 PM by FluffyGuardian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted Monday at 03:22 PM On 9/26/2025 at 10:09 PM, Krenx said: From push hands, how does one apply this in combat? You put on gloves, 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master Logray Posted Monday at 04:16 PM Taichi has no fighting abilities if merely training for basic body qualities and Chi, or learning exerting forces/moving centres of gravity. So the system has build up different levels of training exercises. Solo - visualize engage with an enemy Push Hand - 1st time interactive training with another Taichi person. Loose Hand - engagement within the Taichi system vs Taichi player or someone who learned other martial arts Comparing and Testing - actual "gentle" competition On stage/ring Genuine street fight One can see the transition to be more realistic as levels change. Push hand can be turned into a competition with strict rules, but is far from realistic fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites