Nungali Posted October 7 19 hours ago, Lairg said: Why do you need rites? ... To address wrongs . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 7 21 hours ago, Lala Nila said: Mhm, reading through this thread and the most recent quotes, I'm thinking about running this rite, for balance and experience. I feel you- my lunar workings are a little heavy, about to start some lunar work this evening actually! I'm not too well acquainted with my chart lol, although I have a Joyti chart that I refer back to quite a bit. Yes, I really love many elements of Wicca, I loosely follow some of the rites and rituals. Group work can be a lot of fun and prosperous, but it comes with its own issues as well lol. Oooooooh doesnt it ! I have had many roles over the years .... in groups. All sorts of things ;from the Chaiperson of an LSA ( Local Spiritual Assembly in the Bahai's - they do not have clergy but an elected body of 9 to help manage the affairs of each community) to a priest in EGC , to a rather frequent Chairperson ( and implemented the whole proper 'business meeting model ' into the chaos of company meetings) of this community when I arrived 40 years back , right up to the indigenous circle / fire work I got involved with amidst the craziness of a 'hippy festival' ( which only finished yesterday ... phew ! ) But the other side ( aside from the issues ANY group has due to diverse people coming together ) can be enormous and have allowed us to put on some rather spectacular events . 21 hours ago, Lala Nila said: High Priest, eh? fancy. I prefer the term Fancy pants , ( otherwise known as 'goat leggings' ) It wasnt that fancy though, Wicca is light and it can be mostly fun . One time I was sort of thrown in to the High Priest role in a ritual that ended up being so much fun and rather crazy . For some reason the real High Priest was going to use a penis shaped 'soap - on - a rope ' .... remember them ? - soap on a rope I meant , not penises ! ..... as the wand . Oh dear . Later during this ritual I was supposed to chase the 'spring maiden' around the circle . I didnt know a lot of those people in the circle, I was visiting with people from my group and we were in another area. We had been doing a play rehersal previously and decided to go to this ritual still in costume ( characetrs included Pan , a Satyr, a Moon Goddess , a nymph, a pixie ..... we got there late and appeared out the bushes at the circle that had all these people that didnt know us ... that must have been a surprise for them ! Later I went up to the 'spring maiden ' ; ''You know, traditionally after this we would slip into the bushes and have nookie .'' , as a joke . And this innocent young woman goes ''Oh ... oh, all right then .'' Ohhhh dear ! I made the joke worse by saying it was a joke but if she was interested she could have my 'wand' as a present . and handed her my soap on a rope ... and she took it and said thank you ! I can bet you that by now ( that was many years ago) somewhere around the very hip and touristy area of Byron Bay , there is a large underground witch coven , with a High Priestess that keeps a sacred relic of her authority , handed to her by a satyr, many moons ago in a ritual , in a grove , now on her alter , concealed in a treasure box . Like all magical tools and sacred relics .... you can get em on line https://www.etsy.com/au/market/penis_soap_on_a_rope 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted October 7 Quote I prefer the term Fancy pants , ( otherwise known as 'goat leggings' ) yeah! Spoiler Yes, I read through your recent "Men's Business" thread, sounds interesting. Are you initiated into this,? many ritual practices are closed to outsiders, how do they keep the hippies away from the more scared elements? Fire keeper is an extremely important role. You appear to be a good mediator and jack of all trades, judging by the goings on of the festival! Well, traditionally The Great Rite would include High Priest and Priestess joining in ummm....coitus lol. Lot's of those type shenanigans with various covens tbh, helps build group power. But I suppose lowering the athame into the chalice will suffice (especially if you don't know the other people too well, or not, whatever floats your boat). Using a rubber/soap ding-dong attached to a string somehow lessens the seriousness of whatever is going on, it would be hard for me to keep a straight face in that setting. Quote Like all magical tools and sacred relics .... you can get em on line No need to buy off etsy- I make my own ritual tools, more personal that way and consecration is always far more fun... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lala Nila said: yeah! Reveal hidden contents Yes, I read through your recent "Men's Business" thread, sounds interesting. Are you initiated into this,? No, I do not have a formal indigenous initiation . That can be a very 'full on ' affair , depending on which 'mob' or level we are talking about . Quote many ritual practices are closed to outsiders, how do they keep the hippies away from the more scared elements? Persoanlly I dont agree on that mixture , but its not my call . It is through constant watchfulness and careful and repeated instruction . If that is respected they are welcome to participate but in the way instructed . But some will dispute and argue ! Even those familiar , like me, can make a blunder ... and I did once , right at the beginning , boy did I feel terrible ! It was a momentary lapse of 'presence' and I did something at the fire I should not have , what really bugged me is I know a LOT better and I would not have done that if I remained present and aware in the moment . Damn ! But I guess I had to do that so when others made mistakes I already had that 'experience' and then could use my experience to help them . later in talk I said , in a more traditional way, I would have been punished . The 'stick' is present , but it is just ritually significant now . I held my leg out and said '' Go on hit it .'' But he didnt . Sometimes it is symbolic tap . When it is a bad infraction and you dont get hit, it can be worse eg ; One guy at the festival got violent and started a fight and made a few women feel very unsafe . he was taken into the circle and 'processed ' .... counselled , but also supported , explained , questioned . He broke down eventually and so much came out ... so much of his pain came out as well . The effect of his actions was explained to him and then he started to feel really bad about it . later he said he thought he should have been punished and he got off lightly . I explained to him he wasnt getting off lightly ' would you prefer a hit with the stick or being in this state of realizing the pain you caused to others ? being a big 'tough guy ' ( who had broken down now ) the stick is the easier option. I was present at another one were the person that messed up was stood between two elders at the fire ( not in front of a crowd , these things are relatively private ) , the elders were seated , the fire keeper and myself were on the other side . The elders, one had the stick another had number 7 ( a big club 'war boomerang' shaped like a 7 ) , but it was more symbolic and he got a 'talking to ' . That was more seriously enacted as he had a responsible position and what he did was something that had he had been instructed not to do just the day before ... and the instruction came about because HE originally wanted it on the first place . It was sort of a case of .. '' Look ! What did I just say to you ? Then you go off and do it again ? '' when the person requested the lesson in the first place . i was with a different mob ( not a tribe really , a 'nation' ... or 'language group ' ) where it worked more traditionally , but they lived more traditionally . It went like this ... Old friend is now elder and site guardian , up river from a 'mission' ( an old inherited name for a church supported 'res-settlement' area ) on a more traditional site and lifestyle . That camp has certain rules . A young guy from the mission drove in teared around did some wheelies ... it was very 'out of place ' but not that serious . But a little girl got scared and ran away and tripped over a log and hurt her knee . Everything suddenly changed ! A child had been hurt due to his behavior ... he took off . The girl was comforted . later my friend appears out of his gunya ( a sort of tent made from ... well, whatever ), with a special design painted on him that represents a role he will now enacting , which was ' law man and punisher of those that break law . he had the 'bundie' ( equivalent to a policeman's baton ) I asked him whatsup and he said he had to go and pay a visit to that reckless driver . Off he went . Someone commented that he hoped it would be ok, that reckless teen driver has a huge aggressive and nasty father . My friend came back and I asked what happened , he went to the house and bashed on the door, father opened the door angrily but when he saw Uncle had ' the paint on' and the 'baton' signifying his authority to 'police' the tribe , he immediately changed attitude stepped back and said he ( his son ) had run and locked himself in the bathroom when he heard the door knock . Uncle goes in, kicks the bathroom door in and 'disciplines the sun . he said 'I didnt have to hit him, I showed him the bundi with its design on it and my painted face and the kid stared crying and pissed his pants ... The we had a talk about the harm and potential further harm he could have caused . That was enough . So he came back to camp, put bundie away and washed 'policeman paint' off . Quote Fire keeper is an extremely important role. You appear to be a good mediator and jack of all trades, judging by the goings on of the festival! yeah, I think that why they 'nabbed me ' . originally I was just there to set up a nice space , chill lounge, refreshment tea and coffee area /tents for them as no one seemed to be caring much about that . I dont know this mob that well ( I was more in with their elders and 'old fellahs' who have now passed on . But then Uncle Wirrunggar turned up, their senior and a dear old friend of mine, going back to the old days . I guess when they saw my connection to him (and the consideration I gave to them ). they decide to use me for other roles as well . Ah what the heck , lets put up Uncle Wiruungga again ( he is actually very well known internationally , if he wore all his presents , you would not be able to see him like huge chunks of silver and turquoise from the Navajo , Tibetan necklaces, tribal bone ornaments from here and there ) he travels the world and goes to many indigenous conferences representing Aboriginal people is very popular OS ... 'Uncle Kola ' ; This mob are like that, a lot of them a quiet, nearly 'shy' but have a lot of 'firsts' Famous Gumbaynggirr people include country music star Troy Cassar-Daley, singer-songwriter Emma Donovan, hip hop artist Tasman Keith and his father Wire MC (Will Jarrett), former Senator Aden Ridgeway, and activists Frank Archibald and Gary Foley. Other notable figures are Albert Kelly (rugby league), Loretta Kelly (law academic), and Grant Maher (engineer). Quote Well, traditionally The Great Rite would include High Priest and Priestess joining in ummm....coitus lol. Lot's of those type shenanigans with various covens tbh, helps build group power. But I suppose lowering the athame into the chalice will suffice Do you know where Gardner got the Great Rite from ? Its origins are rather amusing . I'll give you a hint Gerald Gardner ( the founder / inventor of modern Wicca ) had a cigarette lighter inscribed with 'To Alex with love from Aleister ' . Its a simple 'folk version' of the EGC rite ( Gnostic Mass ) ; (note Stele of Revealing at the top of altar ) Quote (especially if you don't know the other people too well, or not, whatever floats your boat). Using a rubber/soap ding-dong attached to a string somehow lessens the seriousness of whatever is going on, it would be hard for me to keep a straight face in that setting. Like I said .... mostly fun . I think he did it as a prank 'trick on me ' embarrassment . Joke was on him though , when he was not looking and his wife went past me in the ritual , I would be holding the 'wand ' and had the rope underneath and pull the rope to make the wand go erect . When he went past I would loosen it to make the wand droop . people were laughing but he did not know what at . Some take the rite very seriously and sacredly . The original rite it is drawn from (EGC mass ) is more of a solemn affair . Quote No need to buy off etsy- I make my own ritual tools, more personal that way and consecration is always far more fun... Well of course ! All you would need is to know how to make soap and have a penis mold . ''Let him by his understanding and ingenium devise ' .... https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib412 . Edited October 7 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted October 7 1 hour ago, Nungali said: Do you know where Gardner got the Great Rite from ? Its origins are rather amusing . I'll give you a hint Gerald Gardner ( the founder / inventor of modern Wicca ) had a cigarette lighter inscribed with 'To Alex with love from Aleister ' . Its a simple 'folk version' of the EGC rite ( Gnostic Mass ) ; well, arguably these types of rites go back quite further than Gardiner and Crowley, but in terms of making them more accessible to "modern" crowds and western occult enthusiasts, I totally agree. However, scared sexuality and fertility rites go back thousands of years tbh. But that is a dope story about the inscribed lighter. Crowley basically transformed an internal structure based on concepts in hermeticism golden dawn, kaballah (sexual polarities, lunar and solar energies), etc and made them literal. I'm not quite certain about the entire history of how it went down our his lexicon of influences. But Crowley's developments and reinterpretations certainly paved the way for contemporary esoteric practice and influenced a lot of westerners, especially chaos magicians and the use of orgasm to fuel workings, build internal power, etc. Quote All you would need is to know how to make soap and have a penis mold . yeah maybe, I guess depending on the rite. Wax is more practical however. You don't even need a mold, it's better to carve it as you like it, or as you intend for it to be...hahahaha. yes, I see the Stele of Revealing there! Quote Uncle Wiruungga again ( he is actually very well known internationally , if he wore all his presents , you would not be able to see him like huge chunks of silver and turquoise from the Navajo , Tibetan necklaces, tribal bone ornaments from here and there ) he travels the world and goes to many indigenous conferences representing Aboriginal people is very popular OS ... 'Uncle Kola ' Uncle is such a pure soul! Wow, I see why you're drawn to him. What is that thing he is twirling around? Is there a lot of drinking going on at these men's business functions? that tends to bring out bad behaviour. I was reading about some of these "mobs" last night after reading your thread. I don't know anything about Aboriginal cultural practices, It's pretty incredible how these aboriginal tribes have the longest continuous traditions on the planet. terrible shame what happened during colonization., same in the country where I live. The indigenous have suffered immensely. Though some of the tribes where I at allow some europeans into powwow festivities, over all it's pretty closed, unless you know a tribe member personally. Though within the past 20 years or so many Nations have begun to organize and are heavily involved with the federal government and resource development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 8 4 hours ago, Nungali said: Sure ... why not . I feel overwhelmed by your enthusiasm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 8 Yes please Uncle Apech . hey .... wait a minute ... I already said that didn't I ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 8 6 hours ago, Lala Nila said: well, arguably these types of rites go back quite further than Gardiner and Crowley, but in terms of making them more accessible to "modern" crowds and western occult enthusiasts, I totally agree. Of course but this a 'structural thing' and several other indicators like the Wiccan Charge old form being lifted from the Mass excerpts , especially in its older form , it got changed a bit more after Gardiner to make it less like Crowley's . Not that ot matters but one notices it when one has done both rites . 6 hours ago, Lala Nila said: However, scared sexuality and fertility rites go back thousands of years tbh. But that is a dope story about the inscribed lighter. Crowley basically transformed an internal structure based on concepts in hermeticism golden dawn, kaballah (sexual polarities, lunar and solar energies), etc and made them literal. I'm not quite certain about the entire history of how it went down our his lexicon of influences. Well, there is the early 'Magical Masons' influence as well and the guys that formed the O.T.O. pre Crowley had Indian and Sufi tantric influences and also ' Tantra on the Prairie' / 'Cowboy tantra ' early mid-west USA and .... damn forgot his name , an African American fellow someone Randolph or Thomas Johnson or ? ,,, urghhh Found it ! There are also other names mentioned in the aticle that can be tracked down elsewhere for their history ; Thomas Johnson: Platonism Meets Sex Magic on the Prairie https://newtopiamagazine.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/thomas-johnson-platonism-meets-sex-magic-on-the-prairie/ 6 hours ago, Lala Nila said: But Crowley's developments and reinterpretations certainly paved the way for contemporary esoteric practice and influenced a lot of westerners, especially chaos magicians and the use of orgasm to fuel workings, build internal power, etc. yeah maybe, I guess depending on the rite. Wax is more practical however. You don't even need a mold, it's better to carve it as you like it, or as you intend for it to be...hahahaha. yes, I see the Stele of Revealing there! Uncle is such a pure soul! Wow, I see why you're drawn to him. What is that thing he is twirling around? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ODGE2f7gLQ 6 hours ago, Lala Nila said: Is there a lot of drinking going on at these men's business functions? No! None at all ! You must have missed the first post where I described a bit of process . In short , one thing that happened was a guy at the festival from OS started a fight . Old Uncle (not the one in the video ... he is senior ) was right on it and me and fire guardian were beside him either side . he got a talking to and was escorted to the circle where a deep process was gone through . I won;t recount it again here but what I noticed was the different way of doing things . he was immediately expelled by the organizer and told to leave at once . Uncle overruled that ... or just did it anyway because as he said ''That Man is sick and needs healing and he should not be just set loose on whoever else out there or he himself might get hurt or have an accident ( due to his state ) . The camp I used to go to further north that my friend ( a different language group / tribe ) is elder at and is site guardian for the nearby sacred sites (including initiation sites ) is 'grog-free' as a few places and some whole areas are . 6 hours ago, Lala Nila said: that tends to bring out bad behaviour. I was reading about some of these "mobs" last night after reading your thread. I don't know anything about Aboriginal cultural practices, It's pretty incredible how these aboriginal tribes have the longest continuous traditions on the planet. terrible shame what happened during colonization., same in the country where I live. The indigenous have suffered immensely. Though some of the tribes where I at allow some europeans into powwow festivities, over all it's pretty closed, unless you know a tribe member personally. Though within the past 20 years or so many Nations have begun to organize and are heavily involved with the federal government and resource development. There are many levels of teaching and access , the higher ones are more restricted , stories and knowledge begin at a 'kindergarten level' those are fairly open ... the higher ones, the more 'cred' you would need . Also it helps to be ..... 'deadly ' Spoiler In Aboriginal English, the word deadly means awesome, excellent, or fantastic, representing a positive and admiring term, not a literal one for death. It is a term of praise for skills, achievements, or cultural pride 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 8 Wait wot penis molds? Moldy penises ? Goodness me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
