for you in your own practice, how do you answer this question, essence of what you are

[Salvijus]

Freedom 

[Nungali]

On 8/8/2025 at 9:06 AM, Lairg said:

 

Sometimes there is something for me to do in the greater system.

 

To take a trivial example, I was at a friend's place earlier and she had a partly formed nature spirit sitting above the house.

 

She had two sorts of vitamin C on the bench.  She pointed out one and said: that feels much better.  And I could easily feel that.  

 

So I said: ask the nature  spirit above your house to improve the other vitamin C.  She did and in less than a minute she could feel the target vitamin was much better.  I could feel it without needing to touch the container.

 

She asked why the nature spirit was partly formed.  When she gave some heart light to the spirit it developed its missing higher levels.  She could see the change.

 

 

As below, so above

 

 

 

Hmmmm ... maybe get 'hallf formed nature spirits ' to sit over vitamin  factories  instead of your friends house  ?  

[Nungali]

I am going to declare that I am a human animal of the type primate and of the type that has a vivid and excessive imagination .  Also imbued with large amounts of ego I am often forgetting, denying and ignoring this fact and attempting to lift myself up with all sorts of denials of parts of my very real and physical nature and conditions  and insisting I am actually ONLY  some type of spiritual or fantastic being  or 'soul'  .... or  'spirit'   or some other word that does not  seem to have any one meaning  that we all can agree upon .  

 

Edited Sunday at 05:53 AM by Nungali

[Salvijus]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

I am going to declare that I am a human animal of the type primate and of the type that has a vivid and excessive imagination .  Also imbued with large amounts of ego I am often forgetting, denying and ignoring this fact and attempting to lift myself up with all sorts of denials of parts of my very real and physical nature and conditions  and insisting I am actually ONLY  some type of spiritual or fantastic being  or 'soul'  .... or  'spirit'   or some other word that does not  seem to have any one meaning  that we all can agree upon .  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

That isn't how I only see myself , I just thought  some  times people need the proverbial boot up the **** while they ponder how 'spiritual' and cosmic they are .  

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's more to you than the expressions of ego. And the ego is but a product of a false perception of reality. While it's important to recognize and accept these manifestations of ego that are currently finding expression, identifying yourself with an illusion only strengthens it. Who you truly are is much more than that.

 

I AM is the only reality. Everything else is a hallucination. I AM is where all the illusions about yourself dissolve away. 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:53 PM by Salvijus

[Keith108]

On 8/7/2025 at 12:34 AM, BigSkyDiamond said:

So for you in your own practice how do you answer this question, and what do you see or define yourself as

 

There is a long list of what i am not:  I am not the body. I am not my feelings and emotions.  i am not my thoughts, ego, or personality.  i am not my bank account, job title, career, or accomplishments.  I am not my personal history, trauma, family or relationships.  I am not the things i am praised for, or critized for, or blamed for.  I am not my intellect, mind, beliefs, or opinions.  I am not my talent, skills, abilities, or shortcomings .  I am none of those, the list goes on, etc.

 

So then, given that I am not any of those then what's left.  what then am i.

For you in your own practice, and in your own framework, what is the essence of you.  What words or phrase do you use for yourself, to describe or define or express that.

 

Thank you.

Well put.

 

I am a process, dependent on conditions and cause and effect. It's quite messy!   The basis of my practice is precisely to ask the question "what then am I?".

 

_/|\_

[kakapo]

On 8/7/2025 at 12:34 AM, BigSkyDiamond said:

So for you in your own practice how do you answer this question, and what do you see or define yourself as

 

There is a long list of what i am not:  I am not the body. I am not my feelings and emotions.  i am not my thoughts, ego, or personality.  i am not my bank account, job title, career, or accomplishments.  I am not my personal history, trauma, family or relationships.  I am not the things i am praised for, or critized for, or blamed for.  I am not my intellect, mind, beliefs, or opinions.  I am not my talent, skills, abilities, or shortcomings .  I am none of those, the list goes on, etc.

 

So then, given that I am not any of those then what's left.  what then am i.

For you in your own practice, and in your own framework, what is the essence of you.  What words or phrase do you use for yourself, to describe or define or express that.

 

Thank you.

 

 I view myself not as one thing, but rather the conversation trillions of cells are having across an organic internet.  

 

I am the energy and information they exchange.

 

The collective conversation that society of cells has. 

 

I am that energy and information. 

 

There is no me inside this body.

 

There are just trillions of cells talking and communicating with one another. 

 

Each with their own individual wills and perspectives. 

 

We  also are doing the same thing our cells are, as we share energy and information and communicate on the internet.  

 

That exchange of energy and information gives rise to an awareness not unlike our own.  

 

 

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

There's more to you than the expressions of ego. And the ego is but a product of a false perception of reality. While it's important to recognize and accept these manifestations of ego that are currently finding expression, identifying yourself with an illusion only strengthens it. Who you truly are is much more than that.

 

I AM is the only reality. Everything else is a hallucination. I AM is where all the illusions about yourself dissolve away. 

 

 

 

I never said  that is ALL I am .   So I see you missed the point .  

 

You might not like it but   YOU  are ALSO an animal   , a primate .    IMO throughout a lot of western history , this denial of our   nature has lead to all sorts of problems .  

 

Many indigenous people see themselves as another species  of animal ,  not   just  some   spiritual 'I am ' entity   .  

 

and please pay attention to special worlds  like 'also'  and 'just'   and  'only'  . 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

 I view myself not as one thing, but rather the conversation trillions of cells are having across an organic internet.  

 

I am the energy and information they exchange.

 

The collective conversation that society of cells has. 

 

I am that energy and information. 

 

There is no me inside this body.

 

There are just trillions of cells talking and communicating with one another. 

 

Each with their own individual wills and perspectives. 

 

We  also are doing the same thing our cells are, as we share energy and information and communicate on the internet.  

 

That exchange of energy and information gives rise to an awareness not unlike our own.  

 

 

 

 

It sounds like you are suggesting  AI  here   ?   

 

I liked the first part of the post , except this schemata  seems to have no thing   in charge of it all   ?  

[kakapo]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

It sounds like you are suggesting  AI  here   ?   

 

I liked the first part of the post , except this schemata  seems to have no thing   in charge of it all   ?  

 

When we communicate, the energy and information we exchange is the same as what our neurons do.  

 

This was true before AI was a thing.  

 

There is no "I" there is only the voices of trillions of cells talking to one another,  the "I" that emerges is their collective conversation. 

 

It is much like murmuration seen in starlings:

 

 

[Salvijus]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I never said  that is ALL I am .   So I see you missed the point .  

 

You might not like it but   YOU  are ALSO an animal   , a primate .    IMO throughout a lot of western history , this denial of our   nature has lead to all sorts of problems .  

 

Many indigenous people see themselves as another species  of animal ,  not   just  some   spiritual 'I am ' entity   .  

 

and please pay attention to special worlds  like 'also'  an

 

The animal nature is there because of ignorance. In the light of who you truly are, your animal nature dissolves because it's born of illusion. The physical body itself would vanish into light in the full recognition of who you are. Yes it's important not to deny those manifestations born of ignorance but identifying yourself with it only strengthens the illusion and self-deception. Your true nature is I AM and nothing else. 

 

Quote

Many indigenous people see themselves as another species  of animal ,  not   just  some   spiritual 'I am ' entity   .  

 

 

Indigenous people see all animals and all life forms as a unique manifestation of I AM or the Great Spirit. In that sense yes, humans are just another life form but true identity of every life form is the Great Spirit anyways. Indigenous people know this. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:01 AM by Salvijus

[Nungali]

 

3 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

When we communicate, the energy and information we exchange is the same as what our neurons do.  

 

This was true before AI was a thing.  

 

There is no "I" there is only the voices of trillions of cells talking to one another,  the "I" that emerges is their collective conversation. 

 

It is much like murmuration seen in starlings:

 

 

 

 

That must be very confusing for you  .  

Edited Sunday at 05:38 AM by Nungali

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

The animal nature is there because of ignorance.

 

No , it isn't .   Its there and you are stuck in it whether you like or approve or deny it or not . 

 

However   in light of what you think and your own practice  that may be a teaching , I don't know .... sounds like it denies nature though . 

 

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

In the light of who you truly are, your animal nature dissolves because it's born of illusion.

 

Nope . I am an animal  , a primate : I got forward facing etes, opposite square set shoulders , body hair , eyes, teeth , nails .....

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

The physical body itself would vanish into light in the full recognition of who you are.

 

Yeah sure .... I get some cosmic inspiration and poof ... vanish in a light flash ... really  ?  

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

 

 

Yes it's important not to deny those manifestations born of ignorance

 

Why is being an animal something ignorant  or born of ignorance ? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

but identifying yourself with it only strengthens the illusion and self-deception. Your true nature is I AM and nothing else. 

 

Our true nature is dual , denying part of it , any part is illusion and self - deception .    And don't preach to me what my true nature is , this thread isn't about that . Its about ;  what it means    'for me, in my own practice '  .  

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

Indigenous people see all animals and all life forms as a unique manifestation of I AM or the Great Spirit. In that sense yes, humans are just another life form but true identity of every life form is the Great Spirit anyways.

 

Neither I or the indigenous are denying this . 

 

Its you that seems to take umbrage that some  animals realize they are animals  as well as manifestations of spirit . 

 

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 

Indigenous people know this. 

 

 

They do, it doesn't  cause them to deny they are one of the animals as well though .  In my practice such a view would be considered egotistical, privileged and rather 'western conscious / Christian   orientated . 

 

IOne of my teachers   will insist to you that yes, he is a man , but also he is a possum   ,  another one will tell you he is a koala   ( and he looks just like one to !  ) ,

[Salvijus]

@NungaliOk

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

IOne of my teachers   will insist to you that yes, he is a man , but also he is a possum   ,  another one will tell you he is a koala   ( and he looks just like one to !  ) ,

 

Different animals embody different attributes of the Great Spirit. When a human embodies the same qualities they label it by the animal that has that quality aswell. It's a symbolic representation of the quality that comes from the great I AM. 

 

Ego is a quality the great spirit takes when it's under the spell of ignorance. I AM in it's most truthful form is nothing but light. 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:15 AM by Salvijus

[kakapo]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

That must be very confusing for you  .  

 

We don't look at actual reality itself, but rather the energy and information being exchanged in our mind.  

 

The job of the brain is to create an experience which represents the reality outside of us. 

 

Whatever reality is it looks nothing like the experience we are having of it.  

 

At best the reality we experience has representational value, like a painting of a pipe represents a pipe. 

 

 

[kakapo]

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "The wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

Different animals embody different attributes of the Great Spirit. When a human embodies the same qualities they label it by the animal that has that quality aswell. It's a symbolic representation of the quality that comes from the great I AM. 

 

Is this your take on what a totem animal is  ?    

 

In my experience it is rather different  .   I used the example specifically to explain what I mean , but one must have a good understanding of totemism  to understand the human animal relationship ... not just not what assumes it means . 

 

 

16 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

Ego is a quality the great spirit takes when it's under the spell of ignorance. I AM in it's most truthful form is nothing but light. 

 

 

 

OK    

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

We don't look at actual reality itself, but rather the energy and information being exchanged in our mind.  

 

The job of the brain is to create an experience which represents the reality outside of us. 

 

Whatever reality is it looks nothing like the experience we are having of it.  

 

At best the reality we experience has representational value, like a painting of a pipe represents a pipe. 

 

 

 

This comment seems to relate to something other than what I was referring to  .  I was commenting on your idea about no internal 'self' or regulator or controller , more of an internal construction . Here you seem to have started talking about how we ( whatever 'we' is ) perceive and  judge  the outside world '   or   reality . 

 

I really cant fathom this one :  " Whatever reality is it looks nothing like the experience we are having of it. " 

 

You seem to suggest you don't know what it is , yet    it doesn't look like  the experience we have with it   . 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, kakapo said:

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "The wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

 

Then I came along and said 'Stop your silly dualistic  arguing ! Don't you realize if someone writes this down people will be using it as some type of proof of something in the future ? Clearly the flag is moving, clearly the wind is moving , clearly your minds are moving  and clearly you two should stop arguing  ....  and get moving !  " 

[Nungali]

Best take away so far : 

 

the Great Spirit can be under the spell of ignorance 

 

   I hope you realize what that did to your other arguments about 'Great Spirit '  . 

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

Best take away so far : 

 

the Great Spirit can be under the spell of ignorance 

 

   I hope you realize what that did to your other arguments about 'Great Spirit '  . 

 

You probably interpreted that as a validation for ego. Your whole way of thinking is actually just a sneaky ego attempt to give itself a permission slip to stay in ignorance as if that's your natural quality that needs embracing. But it's just ego being afraid of truth in the end because the truth would eradicate ego. 

Edited Monday at 02:31 AM by Salvijus

[Nungali]

I see ... I am the one with  a need for  ego  validation although I am insisting I am part animal , but you apparently are not needing ego validation and although you ARE an animal as well as a part of the 'great I am / spirit '   you are denying and getting upset with me for insisting that I am  a both  and  that  you  .... unless you are a chatbot  .......   are indeed human . 

 

Have I got it right so far ?  

[Salvijus]

8 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I see ... I am the one with  a need for  ego  validation although I am insisting I am part animal , but you apparently are not needing ego validation and although you ARE an animal as well as a part of the 'great I am / spirit '   you are denying and getting upset with me for insisting that I am  a both  and  that  you  .... unless you are a chatbot  .......   are indeed human . 

 

Have I got it right so far ?  

 

There is some truth in your way of seeing things. In a sense that the great spirit indeed can manifest in various diverse forms, each unique in its expression. But you're trying to insert ignorance as one of truthful qualities in there aswell which but your sneaky ego at play. 

[Tommy]

I am sorry. I have not been able to answer this question. Will keep trying.

[Salvijus]

28 minutes ago, Nungali said:

you ARE an animal

 

It depends what you mean by "animal".

If you're saying everyone is a unique creation with unique attributes of the Great Spirit, then yes. Humans are God's creatures like everything else. But if you mean animal nature - the ego. Then no. Ego is just a hallucination born of ignorance. It's not your nature. Same word can be used to point to different things. If the distinction is made not carefully, you can end up validating a delusion. 

 

Edited Monday at 03:28 AM by Salvijus