Marketing and Magic

[BigSkyDiamond]

Competence and merit in the area of marketing would be transparency with regards to the product; listening to and responding to cutomer questions, concerns and complaints; robust service recovery when there is a problem with the product;  standing behind the product; demonstrating that the product is something you yourself use and recommend to your own family members; a customer service department that is accessible, courteous, and respectful; integrity and honesty in business practices with both internal and external customers; and first and foremost a decent product.  

 

When you use phrases like "omitting information" and "shaping how people perceive you" it  raises the glaring red flag of what are they hiding, what are they mis-representing.  It does not inspire trust.  Rather it has the opposite effect.  

 

Edited yesterday at 01:44 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Apotheose]

17 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

It raises the question though regarding intent and motivation.  Why are you trying to elevate it using lofty terms such as "competence" "art" and "merit" ?  More apt descriptors are "used car salesman" and "snake oil merchant."

 

Honestly, I have no agenda. I’m just trying to discuss the matter and listen to your opinions. It’s not that deep, my friend.

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 minute ago, Apotheose said:

Honestly, I have no agenda. I’m just trying to discuss the matter and listen to your opinions. It’s not that deep, my friend.

OK.  Just curious.  Sounds like it might be part of a business plan, or perhaps school paper.

[Apotheose]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

Its well known that some people use a younger picture of themselves on social media , or even a picture of someone else , to improve their 'look' .

That’s is interesting.

 

I read a newsletter the other day that explained the difference —in marketing— between charisma and glamour.

 

Charisma is aural and it encourages people to take action. The charismatic marketer will show his “grind” and his daily ups and downs. He can create a legion of followers that will value the process instead of the results. However, the bad part is that he loses its individuality and becomes a vessel of his followers’ memetic desires.

 

Glamour is visual and it distances the marketer from the consumer. It’s somewhat occult and allows the consumer to fill the inherent voids with their imagination. It’s static and “done” — it focus on results, not in the process. The bad part is that there is less tolerance from consumers, since every mistake shatters their idealistic view of the product and or service.

 

When you “engineer” your image (and age) to be perceived as younger or older, you will be perceived differently by the customers. That may or may not increase or decrease the level of charisma or glamour in your product or service.

[BigSkyDiamond]

16 minutes ago, Apotheose said:

That’s is interesting.

I read a newsletter the other day that explained the difference —in marketing— between charisma and glamour.

Charisma is aural and it encourages people to take action. The charismatic marketer will show his “grind” and his daily ups and downs. He can create a legion of followers that will value the process instead of the results. However, the bad part is that he loses its individuality and becomes a vessel of his followers’ memetic desires.

 

Glamour is visual and it distances the marketer from the consumer. It’s somewhat occult and allows the consumer to fill the inherent voids with their imagination. It’s static and “done” — it focus on results, not in the process. The bad part is that there is less tolerance from consumers, since every mistake shatters their idealistic view of the product and or service.

 

When you “engineer” your image (and age) to be perceived as younger or older, you will be perceived differently by the customers. That may or may not increase or decrease the level of charisma or glamour in your product or service.

 

again, what comes to mind reading the above is "smoke and mirrors."

as in creating an illusion, which again speaks to deception.

 

"when you engineer your image and age you will be perceived differently by customers."

yeah, you will be perceived as dishonest and lacking integrity.

 

 

can you use a bigger font please?  thank you.

i am not going to respond any more to posts in  tiny font.  that is my personal choice.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:27 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Apotheose]

2 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

"when you engineer your image and age you will be perceived differently by customers."

yeah, you will be perceived as dishonest and lacking integrity

That’s a valid point.

[Lairg]

My previous second hand car lasted me 32 years of daily use.  It was made in Japan.  So when I bought my latest car (13 years old to avoid all the EMR) it also was made and built in Japan. It seems that Japanese workers take pride in what they do. 

 

Years ago the chief designer for Mazda said approx: We aspire to make emotional vehicles.  

 

The domestic equivalent is:   mother's cooking is best.

 

That is not saying that any particular mother is a good  cook.  It does however indicate that the mother's intent to nourish the family does improve the food - just like the Japanese workers

 

What need for marketing if the buyers can feel the love?  Word of mouth will sell.

 

Who can use intent to bring a higher quality to whatever they do?

 

 

For whatever it may be worth:

 

The previous car only just made it to the car yard.  I was looking at another car but had not settled the deal when I went out again to have another look.   I saw that the nature spirit of my old car had already moved into the one I was considering.   The decision had been made.

  

 

Edited yesterday at 02:48 AM by Lairg

[Apotheose]

6 minutes ago, Lairg said:

My previous second hand car lasted me 32 years of daily use.  It was made in Japan.  So when I bought my latest car (13 years old to avoid all the EMR) it also was made and built in Japan. It seems that Japanese workers take pride in what they do. 

 

Years ago the chief designer for Mazda said approx: We aspire to make emotional vehicles.  

 

The domestic equivalent is:   mother's cooking is best.

 

That is not saying that any particular mother is a good  cook.  It does however indicate that the mother's intent to nourish the family does improve the food - just like the Japanese workers

 

What need for marketing if the buyers can feel the love?  Word of mouth will sell.

 

Who can use intent to bring a higher quality to whatever they do?

 

 

 

Amazing!

 

That, IMO, is marketing — and a good one!

 

It triggers the human demand for reliability and cosiness.

 

It isn’t automatically inferred by the customer; it’s inoculated, exactly by the marketing maneuver, “like magic”.

[BigSkyDiamond]

A quality product is not "magic."

it is a quality product.

[BigSkyDiamond]

16 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Who can use intent to bring a higher quality to whatever they do?

 

Yes.  Bingo.

[Apotheose]

7 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

A quality product is not "magic."

it is a quality product.

Sure!

 

But the thing is: would you think of the Mazda cars as being emotional vehicles if this information wasn’t intentionally been given to you?

Edited yesterday at 03:06 AM by Apotheose

[Lairg]

2 minutes ago, Apotheose said:

would you think of the Mazda cars as being emotional vehicles

 

Years ago, when that statement was made, I would stand on a street corner looking at the cars at the traffic lights

 

Mazda and Honda cars primarily contained higher emotional energies.

 

While expensive German cars contained still higher frequencies: lower mental.  The cars and their drivers were not happy. 

 

I do not recall a road car with higher mental energies - but some race cars make the grade

 

 

[Apotheose]

14 minutes ago, Lairg said:

While expensive German cars contained still higher frequencies: lower mental.  The cars and their drivers were not happy.

 

That is very interesting.

 

That reminds me of luxury products.

 

Have you ever noticed the luxury market, in general, feels quite depressing?

 

It seems to follow a path which is not that of the mystical Heart but, rather, that of comparison.

 

In fashion, you got models that look like extraterrestrial beings — you can tell the “unachievable” nature of this particular niche.

 

In real state, you got extremely white and minimalist architecture, devoid of cosiness.

 

And the list of niches goes on…

 

It seems to trigger a sense of exclusivity which, by its own nature, is based on human comparison and social fear.

Edited yesterday at 03:26 AM by Apotheose

[Lairg]

When I look at a product typically I look at:

 

- my sacral chakra spirit to see if my physical body likes it

- the nature spirit overlighting my house to see if the item works with the energy flows

- this timeline to see if I am happy with the acquisition a year later

- the cost.

 

Fortunately those tests rarely result in any extravagance.

 

With purchases of wine I just ask the sacral chakra.  It rarely likes expensive wines.  What does that mean?

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Apotheose said:

Actually, I got it wrong, @Surya, @BigSkyDiamond, @Nungali. I will correct my last post right now.

 

English is not my first language, and I didn’t fully understand the meaning of “social engineering” when I posted my last comment.

 

Please, forget the social engineering part.

I meant only marketing — the “art” of emitting and omitting information to shape the form of how people perceive you.

Would this be “competence” and “merit”?

 

 

In some societies it is   .    But it may not seem to  if we judge other societies by our own values .  The concept of Tatamae and Honne  come to mind ; 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae

 

 

Then there are many cases of 'emitting information to shape the form of how people see you'  ; 

 

 

 

But here ,  one   should remember the cultural significance of things and it is expected they can 'back it up'  , in various ways , depending on the symbolism of what is being displayed .  In other words , they are emitting information about themselves that may be symbolically accurate . 

 

Your English seems very good, I didn't pick that it was not your first language  .     What is your first language ?  

 

Not Japanese I hope !       ( because my lack of tatame and honne would be  extra  shocking to you !  ) 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Apotheose said:

Honestly, I have no agenda. I’m just trying to discuss the matter and listen to your opinions. It’s not that deep, my friend.

 

It doesn't seem so to me , I read your   " phrases like "omitting information" and "shaping how people perceive you"  , I thought you had gone away from the specifics of modern marketing into the  general dynamics of the issue . 

 

So I took them in that context , not that you are suggesting that this dynamic , specific in the area of modern dishonest marketing , had value .  

 

But as pointed out the dynamic can have value if it is truthful accurate and descriptive   . 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

OK.  Just curious.  Sounds like it might be part of a business plan, or perhaps school paper.

 

English is not  the first language !

 

I doubt that is what this poster is up to . 

 

Perhaps the name has more to do with the approach here  ......   we are Gods !   

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Years ago, when that statement was made, I would stand on a street corner looking at the cars at the traffic lights

 

Mazda and Honda cars primarily contained higher emotional energies.

 

While expensive German cars contained still higher frequencies: lower mental.  The cars and their drivers were not happy. 

 

I do not recall a road car with higher mental energies - but some race cars make the grade

 

 

 

How do you feel about this car ?  

 

Just a picture .... with no marketing attached , no marque , model or number plate to be seen ;

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Apotheose said:

 

That is very interesting.

 

That reminds me of luxury products.

 

Have you ever noticed the luxury market, in general, feels quite depressing?

 

It seems to follow a path which is not that of the mystical Heart but, rather, that of comparison.

 

 

I think this is a very significant driver of this phenomena . 

 

That's what happened to the development of Australian architecture .  For a while it was innovative , adaptable to various environs and considered them ( in a different way than today ) , it started developing its own styles . Then it turned into a better than the house next door monstrosity race .  Now whole areas are built like that .  

 

- we have some of the largest ( by average ) in the world at  235.8 sq.mt., at the expense of many other factors !   

 

 

3 hours ago, Apotheose said:

 

In fashion, you got models that look like extraterrestrial beings — you can tell the “unachievable” nature of this particular niche.

..

 

I figured out  'high fashion' isn't really about  the art of making  clothing .... its about  the fantastic adorning  and decoration of an art object  .... that is a  human being as the 'canvass'  .  

 

3 hours ago, Apotheose said:

 

In real state, you got extremely white and minimalist architecture, devoid of cosiness.

 

And the list of niches goes on…

 

It seems to trigger a sense of exclusivity which, by its own nature, is based on human comparison and social fear.

 

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

How do you feel about this car ?  

 

Both the engine and transmission feel very ordinary

 

The car feels a bit depressed.  I would not buy it

 

 

 

[Apotheose]

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

With purchases of wine I just ask the sacral chakra.  It rarely likes expensive wines.  What does that mean?

I’d submit that to meditation.

 

I don’t have an answer, but I’d assume it is low vibrational.

[Lairg]

3 minutes ago, Apotheose said:

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

With purchases of wine I just ask the sacral chakra.  It rarely likes expensive wines.  What does that mean?

I’d submit that to meditation.

 

I don’t have an answer, but I’d assume it is low vibrational.

 

I think it means that price of wines is primarily based on marketing.

 

And many upmarket wineries often produce more wine than they can sell without depressing the prices.  So the surplus wine goes into generic labels.

 

I once was at a wine tasting that progressively moved to more expensive wines.  At the end they opened a $250 champagne - and it was off - but no one said anything

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:44 AM by Lairg

[Apotheose]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

But here ,  one   should remember the cultural significance of things and it is expected they can 'back it up'  , in various ways , depending on the symbolism of what is being displayed .  In other words , they are emitting information about themselves that may be symbolically accurate

Yeah, I was actually playing devil’s advocate. I don’t have a firm opinion in any aspect of this discussion.

 

I won’t be politically correct here, though. Haha. 

 

I do think “magicians” need to back it up; otherwise it’d be made up B.S. (Via Sinistrae). Actually I meant people who could back it up and who would just shorten the timespan of getting to the top through the use of marketing.

 

That would explain my question, which was “isn’t marketing a merit/competence?”.

 

Does humanity need to follow the “organic way to the top” — characterized by the rock solid social proof earned by years of reliability within the tribe?

 

That’s just a question for the benefit of the discussion; I don’t have an agenda and I’m not a billionaire marketer using a burner account on an online forum hahah. I know you got it @Nungali, and, by the way, by looking at our past conversations in this forum, I suppose your literacy on magic could absolutely lighten up this discussion.

[Apotheose]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

That's what happened to the development of Australian architecture .  For a while it was innovative , adaptable to various environs and considered them ( in a different way than today ) , it started developing its own styles . Then it turned into a better than the house next door monstrosity race .  Now whole areas are built like that

 

You hit the nail on the head.

 

Now it’s all about comparison. One of the worst human thinking habits.

 

Comparing yourself with your neighbor, cousin, coworker etc…

 

And that’s where I think “bad magicians” intentionally capitalize on — they create complex campaigns solely to trigger this rat race.

 

The thirst for standing out does compel people to buying “high level” products and services that they don’t need — which is an artificially created demand, by those who want not to offer good products/services, but to psychologically coerce consumers into succumbing to their memetic fears.

[Apotheose]

51 minutes ago, Lairg said:

price of wines is primarily based on marketing

That seems wicked.

 

If a product’s value is exclusively (or majorly) influenced by the marketing campaign, there may be something fundamentally unethical behind it.

 

And notice how the more “naive” customers support this system. Firstly, (1) they want to buy expensive wines, for the sole purpose of status. But (2) who triggered this specific desire? The marketer, of course! So, (3) who is more wrong here? The marketer, for artificially creating/triggering a low vibrational desire on the customer, or the customer, for not being “strong and socially ethical” enough and, therefore, succumbing to a low vibrational desire that is bad for society?

Edited yesterday at 08:34 AM by Apotheose