心神 ~ Posted June 7 (edited) The Tablet of the Covenant is based upon the Babylonian epic of Atrahasis (Ziusudra in Sumerian). It is a tale of the early days of earth, when mankind was still young, and the gods were upon the earth. It is the tale of mankind's corruption and the subsequent cleansing of the world by the flood weapon of the gods. It is the story of a man, favored by the gods, who built a great ship to escape the floodwaters that doomed the earth. It is believed by many scholars to be the source of the biblical tale of Noah and his ark. The Tablet of the Covenant ('The Epic of Ziusudra') When the gods instead of man did the work, bore the loads, the gods' load was too great, the work too hard, the trouble too much, the great Anunnaki made the Igigi carry the workload sevenfold. An their father was King, their counselor warrior Enlil, their chamberlain was Ninurta, their canal-controller Enuggi. They took the box of lots, and cast the lots; the Gods made the division. An went up to the sky, and Enlil took the earth for his people. The bolt which bars the sea was assigned to far-sighted Enki. When An had gone up to the sky, and the gods of the Abzu had gone below, the Anunnaki of the sky made the Igigi bear the workload. The Gods had to dig out canals, had to clear channels, the lifelines of the land. The gods dug out the Tigris river bed and then dug out the Euphrates. In the deep they set up the Abzu of the land, and roofed it as the mountains. They were counting the years of loads; for 3600 years they bore the excess, hard work, night and day. They groaned and blamed each other, grumbled over the masses of excavated soil: 'Let us confront our Lord the chamberlain, and get him to relieve us of our hard work! Come, let us carry the Lord, the counselor of gods, the warrior, from his dwelling. Come, let us carry Enlil, the counselor of the gods, the warrior, from his dwelling.' Then Gibil made his voice heard and spoke to the gods his brothers, 'Come! Let us carry the counselor of the gods, the warrior, from his dwelling. Come! Let us carry Enlil, the counselor of the gods, the warrior, from his dwelling. Now, cry battle! Let us mix fight with battle!' The gods listened to his speech, set fire to their tools, put aside their spades for fire, their loads for the fire-god, they flared up. When they reached the gate of the warrior Enlil's dwelling, it was the night, the middle watch, the house was surrounded, the god had not realized. It was night, the middle watch, E-Kur was surrounded, Enlil had not realized. Yet Kalkal, Enlil's gate master was attentive, he had the gate closed, he held the lock and watched the gate. Kalkal roused Nusku. They both listened to the noise of the Igigi, then Nusku roused his master, made him get out of bed: 'My Lord, your house is surrounded, a rabble is running around your door! Enlil, your house is surrounded, the Igigi are running around your door!' Enlil had weapons brought to his dwelling. Enlil made his voice heard and spoke to the vizier Nusku, 'Nusku, bar your door, take up your weapons and stand firm in front of me.' Nusku barred his door, took up his weapons and stood in front of Enlil. Nusku made his voice heard and spoke to the warrior Enlil, 'O my Lord Enlil, your face is sallow as tamarisk! Why do you fear your own sons? Send for An to be brought down to you, have Enki fetched into your presence.' He sent for An to be brought down to him, Enki was fetched into his presence, An King of the Sky was present, Enki King of the Abzu attended. The Great Anunnaki were all present. Enlil got up and the case was put. Enlil made his voice heard and spoke to the Great Gods, 'Is it against me that they have risen? Shall I do battle with them? What did I see with my own eyes? A rabble was running around my door!' An made his voice heard and spoke to the warrior Enlil, 'Let Nusku go out and find out the word of the Igigi who have surrounded your door.' Enlil made his voice heard and spoke to the vizier Nusku, 'Nusku, open your door, take up your weapons and stand before me! In the assembly of all the gods, Bow, then stand and tell them, "Your Father An, your counselor warrior Enlil, your chamberlain Ninurta, and your canal-controller Enuggi have sent me to say, who is in charge of this rabble? Who is in charge of this fighting? Who declared war? Who ran to the door of Enlil?"' Nusku opened his door, took up his weapons, went before Enlil. In the assembly of all the gods he bowed, then stood and delivered Enlil's message. Then Gibil, leader of the Igigi revolt, made his voice heard and spoke to Nusku, 'Every single one of us gods declared war! We have put a stop to the digging. The load is too excessive, it is killing us! Our work is too hard, the trouble too much! So every single one of us gods has agreed to complain to Enlil.' Nusku took his weapons, went and returned to Enlil. There Nusku delivered the answer of the Igigi. Enlil listened to his speech. His tears flowed. Enlil spoke guardedly, addressed the Sky King An, 'Noble One, take a decree with you to the sky, show your strength while the Anunnaki are sitting before you, call up one rebellious god and let them cast him for destruction!' An made his voice heard and spoke to the gods his sons, 'What are we complaining of? Their work was indeed too hard, their trouble was too much. Every day the Earth resounded with their groans and cries. The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise, but we ignored them! They have every right to revolt and complain to the house of Enlil!' Enlil was enraged with his father's answer. Then far-sighted Enki stepped in and offered a wise solution to the trouble. Enki made his voice heard and spoke to the gods his brothers, 'Why are we blaming them? Their work was too hard, their trouble was too much. Every day the Earth resounded with their groans and cries. The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise, but we ignored them! There is an answer to this problem. Noble An, call forth Belet-ili the Womb-goddess into your presence. When Belet-ili the womb-goddess is present - Let her create offspring, let her create a mortal man so that he may bear the yoke, the work of Enlil, let man bear the load of the gods!' They called up the goddess, asked the midwife of the gods, wise Mami, 'You are the womb-goddess to be the creator of mankind! Create a mortal, that he may bear the yoke! Let him bear the yoke, the work of Enlil! Let man bear the load of the gods!' Nintu made her voice heard and spoke to the great gods, 'It is not proper for me to make him. That work is Enki's. It is not proper that I should make a mortal slave. I shall create a co-worker, a co-creator, but I will not make a slave! This is the work of Enki; he must make everything pure! If Enki gives me the clay, then I will do it.' Enki made his voice heard and spoke to the great gods, 'Wise Mami, mother of the gods your sons, your wisdom is noted and shall be made to pass. On the first, seventh and fifteenth of the month I shall make a purification by washing. Then one Anunnaki God should be chosen for sacrifice, and the gods can be purified by immersion. Nintu shall mix clay with his flesh and blood. Then a god and a man will be mixed together in clay. Let us hear the drumbeat of his heart forever after, let a ghost come into existence from the gods' flesh, let her proclaim it as his living sign, and let the ghost exist so as not to forget the slain god.' They all answered, 'Yes!' in the assembly, the great Anunnaki who assign the fates. On the first, seventh, and fifteenth of the month Enki made a purification by washing. Geshtu-e, a pure young god who had intelligence, they slaughtered in their assembly. Nintu mixed clay with his flesh and blood. They heard the drumbeat forever after. A ghost came into existence from the gods' flesh, and Nintu proclaimed it as his living sign. The ghost existed so none would forget the slain god. After she had mixed that clay, she called up the Anunnaki, the great gods. The Igigi, the great gods, spat spittle upon the clay. Mami made her voice heard and spoke to the great gods, 'I have carried out perfectly the work that you ordered of me. You have sacrificed a god together with his intelligence. I have relieved you of your hard work, I have imposed your load upon man, but only as a co-worker, not a slave. You would have bestowed noise and woe upon mankind, but I have undone the fetter and granted freedom!' They listened to this speech of hers, and were freed from anxiety, they fell down and kissed her feet: 'We used to call you Mami but now your name shall be Mistress of All Gods.' Far-sighted Enki and wise Mami went into the Room of Fate. The womb-goddesses were assembled. Enki trod the clay in her presence; Mami kept reciting the incantation, for Enki, staying in her presence, made her recite it. When she had finished her incantation, she pinched off fourteen pieces of clay, and set seven pieces on the right, seven on the left. Between them she put down a mud brick, she made use of a reed, split it open so that it was sharp, to cut the umbilical cords, she called up the wise and knowledgeable womb- goddesses, seven and seven. Seven created males, seven created females, for the womb-goddess is the creator of fate. Enki paired them two by two, he paired them two by two in her presence. Mami made these rules for people: 'In the house of a woman who is giving birth the mud brick shall be put down for seven days. Belet-ili, wise Mami shall be honored. The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the woman who gives birth and when the woman gives birth to the baby, the mother of the baby shall sever the cord herself. A man shall cleave unto a woman, a boy to a girl. A girl shall be ready by the sign of her bosoms, a young man, by the beard upon his cheek. In the gardens and the waysides they shall cleave unto each other, a wife and her husband shall choose each other.' The womb-goddesses were assembled and Nintu was present. They counted the months, called up the ninth month as the term of fates. When the ninth month came, she slipped in her staff and opened the womb. Her face was glad and joyful. She covered her head, performed the midwifery, put on her belt, said a blessing. She made a drawing in flour and put down a mud brick in the center of it: 'I myself have created it, my hands have made it. The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the priestess. Wherever a woman gives birth and the baby's mother severs herself, the mud brick shall be put down for nine days. Nintu the womb-goddess shall be honored. She shall call the womb-goddess "Mami". She shall honor the womb-goddess, shall lay down the linen cloth, and when the bed is laid out in their house, a wife and her husband shall choose each other. Inanna shall rejoice in the wife-husband relationship, in the father-in-law's house, celebration shall last for nine days, and they shall call Inanna "Ishtar" On the fifteenth day, the fixed time of fate, she shall call upon the womb-goddess and Inanna for blessings upon the child.' Enlil was very pleased with the work of far-sighted Enki and wise Mami. The new mortals grew quickly and soon they took hold of tools, made new picks and spades, made big the canals so as to feed the people and sustain the gods. 60 times 3600 years had passed, and the country became too wide, the people too numerous. In those days the Anunnaki sent the Watchers to the Earth, they took for themselves wives of the daughters of man, and begat children of great stature and renown. The holy sons and daughters of the Anunnaki Watchers became the leaders of the Land. In those later days, the country was as noisy as a bellowing bull. The God grew restless at their racket, Enlil had to listen to their noise. Enlil organized his assembly, he addressed the great gods, 'The noise of mankind has become too much, I am losing sleep over their racket. Give the order that the suruppu-disease shall break out, let Namtar put an end to their noise straight away! Let sickness: headache, suruppu, asakku, blow in to them like a storm!' The gods gave the order, and suruppu-disease was unleashed upon the people of the land. Namtar put an end to their noise straightaway. Sickness: headache, suruppu, asakku, blew into them like a storm. Now in those days, in the city of Shuruppak, there was one Ziusudra, a son of the Anunnaki, a leader of the people, whose ear was open to his god Enki. He would speak with his god and his god would speak with him. Ziusudra made his voice heard and spoke to his Lord, 'How long will the gods make us suffer? Will they make us suffer illness forever? Oh Lord, the people are grumbling! Sickness from the gods is consuming the country! Since you created us, you ought to cast off this unholy sickness.' Enki listened to his speech then made his voice heard, speaking to his servant Ziusudra, 'Call the elders, the senior men! Start an uprising in your own house, let heralds proclaim, let them make a loud noise in the land: Do not revere your gods, do not pray to your goddesses, but search out the door of Namtar. Bring a baked loaf into his presence. Make the flour offering reach him, may he be shamed by the presents and wipe away his punishing "hand."' Ziusudra took the order, gathered the elders of the city to his door. Ziusudra made his voice heard and spoke to the gathered elders, telling them all that Enki had told him. The elders listened to his speech; they built a temple for Namtar in the city. The Heralds proclaimed, they made a loud noise in the land. They did not revere their gods, they did not pray to their goddesses, but searched out the door of Namtar, brought a baked loaf into his presence. They made the flour offerings reach him, and he was shamed by the presents. Namtar wiped away his punishing 'hand'. The suruppu-disease left them, and sickness left the land. The gods went back to their regular offerings. In time the land became noisy again. Enlil once again organized his assembly, and addressed the gods his sons, 'You are not to inflict disease on them again, even though the people have not diminished - they are more than ever before! I have become restless at their noise, sleep cannot overtake me because of their racket! Cut off the food from the people, let vegetation be too scant for their stomachs! Let Ishkur on high make his rain scarce, let him block the below, and not raise flood- water from the springs! Let the field decrease its yield, Let Nissaba turn away her breast, let the dark fields become white, let the broad countryside breed alkali, let the earth clamp down her womb so that no vegetation sprouts, no grain grows. Let asakku be inflicted on the people, let the womb be too tight to let a baby out!' The Anunnaki listened to the decree of Enlil, they cut off food for the people and did all that was ordered of them. That first year the land produced no vegetation, the land produced no grain. The people sought in vain for food. When the second year arrived, they had depleted the city storehouses. When the third year arrived, the people's looks were changed by starvation. When the fourth year arrived, their upstanding bearing bowed, their well-set shoulders slouched, people went out in public hunched over with the pain of starvation. When the fifth year arrived, daughters would suspiciously eye their mothers. Mothers would not open their doors for their daughters. Daughters would watch the scales at the sale of their mothers into slavery. Mothers would watch the scales at the sale of their daughters. When the sixth year arrived, they served up daughters for their meals, they served up sons for food. When only a few households were left, their faces covered with scabs like malt, people stayed alive by taking the life of others. Now in those days, Ziusudra again approached Lord Enki, Ziusudra made his voice heard and spoke to his Lord, 'O Lord Enki, how long must the people suffer at the hands of the gods? How long will the Anunnaki punish the children of men and the children of gods? Why are we made to starve? Why has Ishkur ceased his rain, why has he ceased his fertile flood? The people are eating one another, none are safe. Happiness is no longer in the land.' Enki listened to his speech, and as before, Enki ordered Ziusudra to do just as he had done when Namtar sent sickness to the land. Ziusudra followed his orders, called the elders to his house, and gave them the orders of Enki. The people built a temple for Ishkur in the city, made offerings to him, and Ishkur was shamed by the presents. Ishkur withdrew his 'hand' from the land. He made mist form in the morning, and in the night he stole out and made dew drop, he opened his clouds and released the rains. He delivered to the field a harvest of its' produce nine fold. The drought left the land and the gods went back to their regular offerings. Now Enlil was furious with the Igigi, he convened the assembly and made his voice heard, speaking to the gods his sons, 'We, the great Anunna, all of us, agreed together on a plan. An and Ishkur were to guard above, I was to guard the earth below, where Enki went, he was to undo the chain and set us free, he was to release the produce for the people, he was to exercise control by holding the balance. But Enki has instead bestowed upon mankind, the secrets of our heavens, he is the one who has caused knowledge to increase, he has corrupted mankind. Enki is to blame for our woes.' Enlil made his voice heard and spoke to his vizier Nusku, 'Have Enki fetched for me! Have him brought into my presence straight away!' Enki was fetched for him. He was made to wait before the assembly. The gods grew anxious as he sat. In the gods' assembly worry gnawed at Enki, he grew anxious as he sat. They were furious with each other, Enki and Enlil. Finally the warrior Enlil addressed Enki, 'We, the great Anunna, all of us, agreed together on a plan. An and Ishkur were to guard above, I was to guard the earth below. Where you went, you were to undo the chain and set us free! You were sent to release produce for the people! You were to exercise control by holding the balance. But instead, you have given wisdom to the people, you gave them forbidden knowledge. Your creations have despoiled the earth. You agreed to a different plan, you betrayed the gods by teaching man to shame the gods, you caused that Ishkur should release his rains, that Namtar should stay the sickness, against the holy will of the gods. Therefore, since you imposed your loads upon man, you bestowed noise on mankind, you slaughtered a god together with his intelligence, you must now use your power to create a flood. As your punishment, it is indeed your power that shall be used against your people! You agreed to the wrong plan! I will have it reversed! Let us make far-sighted Enki swear an oath to this end, that his power shall inundate the earth and wipe away all life.' Enki made his voice heard and spoke to his brother gods, 'Why should you make me swear an oath? Why should I use my power against my people? The flood that you mention to me - What is it? I do not even know! Could I give birth to a flood? That is Enlil's kind of work! Let him choose destruction, let Enlil choose his champions. Let his envoys march ahead, let them pull loose the mooring poles, let Ninurta march, let him make the weirs overflow.' The assembly listened to his speech, but they did not listen to his plea. The gods gave a specific command. Enki was forced to swear the oath, and Enlil performed a bad deed to the people. Now Ziusudra sought his master day and night, but could find him nowhere. He spoke to him, but he would not answer, for Enki was sworn to silence. Instead, Enki came to Ziusudra in a dream and instructed him to go to the temple, put his ear to the wall and listen for his god. Edited June 7 by 心神 ~ 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
心神 ~ Posted June 7 (edited) Ziusudra awoke and made his voice heard, speaking to his master, 'Indicate to me the meaning of this dream, let me find its' portent.' With that, Ziusudra went to the temple and placed his ear to the reed wall. Enki spoke through the wall and made his voice heard, speaking to his servant, 'Make sure you attend the message I shall tell you! Listen constantly to me! Dismantle the house of the god, build a boat with its' materials, reject possessions and save living things. The boat you build, roof it like the Abzu so that the sun cannot see inside it! Make upper decks and lower decks. The tackle must be very strong, the bitumen strong, to give strength. I shall make rain fall on you here, take a wealth of birds, a hamper of fish for your journey.' Enki opened the sand-clock and filled it, he told Ziusudra that the sand needed for the Flood was seven night's worth. Ziusudra received the message. Ziusudra gathered up the elders at his door. he made his voice heard and spoke to the elders, 'My God is out of favor with your God. Enki and Enlil have become angry with each other. They have driven me out of my house. Since I always stand in awe of Enki, He told me of this matter. I can no longer stay in Shuruppak, I can no longer set my foot in Enlil's territory again. I must go down to the Abzu and stay with my god. I must build a boat to take me there. That is what he told to me.' The elders heard his words, and called the carpenters and all manner of workman to his aid. Everything he needed was fetched to him, everything was built according to plan. All manner of life was placed aboard the boat, Ziusudra selected the best of all species and placed them on the boat. He invited his people to a feast. He put his family and friends on board the vessel. They were eating, they were drinking, but Ziusudra went in and out, pacing the decks of his boat, he could not stay still on his haunches, his heart was breaking, and he was vomiting bile. The face of the weather changed. Ishkur bellowed from the clouds. When Ziusudra heard this noise, bitumen was brought to him, and he sealed up the door with it. While he was closing the door, Ishkur kept bellowing from the clouds, the winds were raging even as he went up and cut through the ropes, he released the boat. Anzu was tearing at the sky with his talons, the bolt of Abzu broke open and the Flood came out. The Flood went against the people like an army. No one could see anyone else clearly, none of them could be recognized in the catastrophe. The Flood roared like a bull, like a wild ass screaming the winds howled. The darkness was total, there was no sun. The bodies of man and the children of the gods floated on the surface like fat white sheep, their corpses pushed by the Flood into heaps like piles of dead dragonflies in the marsh. The earth was inundated with the power and noise of the Flood. In the heavens, An went berserk, he called the gods his sons before him. As for Nintu the Great Mistress, her lips became encrusted with rime. The great gods, the Anunna, stayed parched and famished. The Goddess watched and wept, midwife of the gods, wise Mami: 'Let daylight return. Let daylight return and shine forth! However could I, in the assembly of the gods, have ordered such destruction with them? Enlil was strong enough to give a wicked order. He ought to have cancelled that order! I heard their cry levelled at me, against myself, against my person, beyond my control my offspring have become like bloated white sheep. As for me, how am I to live in a house of bereavement? My noise has turned to silence. Could I go away, up to the sky and live as in a cloister? What was An's intention as decision-maker? It was his command that the gods his sons obeyed, he who did not deliberate, but sent the Flood, he who gathered the people to catastrophe.' Nintu was wailing, 'Would a true father have given birth to the rolling sea? Would a true father drown his children so that they would clog up the rivers like the bodies of dragonflies? They are washed up like a raft on the bank. I have seen them, and wept over them! Shall I ever finish weeping for them?' She wept, she gave vent to her feelings, Nintu wept and fuelled her passions. The gods wept with her for the country. She was sated with grief, she longed for beer in vain. Where she sat weeping, there the great gods sat too, but, like sheep, could only fill their windpipes with bleating. Thirsty as they were, their lips discharged only the rime of famine. For seven days and seven nights the torrent, storm and Flood came on. After the seventh day had passed, the torrent ceased, silence fell upon the earth. The sun came out and began to shine. When Ziusudra heard the silence, he opened a window in the boat and saw that the sun was shining. He took a raven and released it from the boat. The raven never returned. The waters receded and the boat of Ziusudra came to rest upon the mountaintops. Ziusudra put down the door of his boat and let out all the animals and people within. He put down an offering for the gods, provided food for the gods, he made a burnt offering for the Anunnaki. The gods smelt the fragrance, and gathered like flies over the offering. When they had eaten the offering, Nintu got up and blamed them all, 'Whatever came over An who makes the decisions? Did Enlil dare to come for the smoke offering? Those two who did not deliberate, but rather, sent the Flood, who gathered the people to catastrophe - You agreed to the destruction. Now the bright faces of our children are dark forever!' Enki looked upon the bodies of his children which lay scattered about the land, he summoned his powers and turned them all into great flies. Enki wept in sorrow for what Enlil had forced him to do. Nintu went up to the big flies which Enki had made, and declared before the gods, 'His grief is mine! My destiny goes with his! He must deliver me from evil, and appease me! Let me go out in the morning, let these flies be the lapis lazuli of my necklace by which I may remember them daily, forever.' It was then that Enlil and An arrived. Enlil spotted the boat and was furious with the Igigi. 'We, the great Anunna, all of us, agreed together on an oath! No form of life should have escaped! How did any man survive the catastrophe?' An made his voice heard and spoke to the warrior Enlil, 'Who but Enki would do this? He made sure that that the reed wall disclosed the order.' Enki then spoke up and made his voice heard before all the gods, 'I did it, in defiance of you! I made sure life was preserved on the earth! Exact your punishment from the sinner, and whoever contradicts your order, but I have given vent to my feelings!' Enlil made his voice heard and spoke to the far-sighted Enki, 'Come, summon Nintu the womb-goddess! Confer with each other in the assembly.' Enki made his voice heard and spoke to the womb-goddess Nintu, 'You are the womb-goddess who decrees destinies. You have created the destinies of the people, you have created the destinies of the gods, whatever you say shall be made so. I propose a covenant, a bond of Heaven and Earth, and make Enlil swear to it just as he made me swear to his oath.' With that, Nintu drew a pattern of flour upon the ground and heaped up a mound and placed it in the center, she commanded that Enlil be fetched before her. Enlil was fetched, and made to stand upon the holy mound. Upon this mound did Enlil swear to the covenant known as Duranki, the Bond of Heaven and Earth, never again to harm the people of the land, and never again to allow the Anunnaki to cohabit with the children of man. And so the years passed, and mankind flourished, and the gods were made happy by the people of the land. Thus Concludes the Tablet of the Covenant. Edited June 7 by 心神 ~ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthWide Posted Monday at 09:59 AM (edited) So, in present day Turkey... You can actually go visit where the Ark is buried... Now thanks to ground penetrating Xray tech they have actually found it. was constructed using lots of bitumen or pitch. The measuremeNt Discrepancy is that a much longer cubit was used, closer to the egyptian cubit. Noah actually married Tubal-Cain's sister who was a Craftsman(Tubal-Cain was). After reading Genesis a few hundred times it makes sense. Also atop a neighboring mountain is a tablet, that I think is now inside the nearby museum which depicts the family members, the Ark and a rainbow. When I saw the post I could only think of that white tablet with their faces on it. Edited Monday at 10:00 AM by NorthWide Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted Monday at 10:29 AM 30 minutes ago, NorthWide said: . You can actually go visit where the Ark is buried... Now thanks to ground penetrating Xray tech they have actually found it. Is it big enough to hold all the animals? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthWide Posted Monday at 12:39 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, Lairg said: Is it big enough to hold all the animals? Yes. Here is the Crazy part, bears, grizzly bears, polarbears can interbreed and produce viable offspring. All bees can. Pigeons are Doves and seagulls interbreed with no trouble. Donkeys and Horses are two different kinds, sterile offspring. Horses and Zebras, yes. Camels, llamas, Sheep are the same kind. Rabbits and pigs are not. sometimes stillborn. So, yes. Its just that science tried to species each animal it found when animals have a "kind". There might be a wondrous website somewhere where someone has documented what breeds successfully. There are people on this forum that remember my obssession with Tannim (the wild, chaotic forms of animals and plants.) Tannim literally means dragon, but also monster, these were the strong unkillable (unslayable) animals like the Hippo (need tank rounds, too much fat/armor, Aka Behemoth. Leviathan, Aka Giant Squid (Jacque Costau searched for this) he sais the animal was too intelligent to be found. I searched for the wild onion and found something out east, very strange, a desert cactus that makes you ?feel? invincible. We didnt make things weak, we chose weakness. Instead of seeing that the Wild was good, we bred insufficentcy. On the other hand the planet has a fungus problem, which could be solVed By ketoconazole 9% in shampoos and soaps. As for the Gods, did you not read where Jesus says: 'You are Gods. Since it is already holy scripture, it cant be taken back.' Edited Monday at 01:24 PM by NorthWide Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
心神 ~ Posted Monday at 02:41 PM 2 hours ago, NorthWide said: As for the Gods, did you not read where Jesus says: 'You are Gods. Since it is already holy scripture, it cant be taken back.' I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lairg Posted Monday at 10:31 PM (edited) I suspect the Ark held genetic material only. Saves having to stop the various species eating the other species to stay alive Edited Monday at 10:31 PM by Lairg 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Monday at 11:21 PM Just about every story in the Old Testament can be tracked back to another culture ; it seems a 'collation' of various myth and accounts from other places put together to form a 'history' . One example is The Exodus , the Tablets , parting the Red Sea , etc all seem to come from Ramesses II expedition to and battle at Kadesh . One must remember at this time and much later , all of this area, later claimed as vast Jewish Empire was actually part of the Egyptian Empire . And it was actually the Egyptians doing 'Gods work ' as explained in a later incident , during a similar dynamic ( Pharoah Necho II ) travelling north to battle , now to aid the Assyrian Empire which was falling to the Babylonians . That set the stage for the classic confrontation with Josiah ... who went against God's will and was killed for it ..... כ אַחֲרֵי כָל-זֹאת, אֲשֶׁר הֵכִין יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ אֶת-הַבַּיִת, עָלָה נְכוֹ מֶלֶךְ-מִצְרַיִם לְהִלָּחֵם בְּכַרְכְּמִישׁ, עַל-פְּרָת; וַיֵּצֵא לִקְרָאתוֹ, יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ. 20 After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Neco king of Egypt went up to fight against Carchemish by the Euphrates; and Josiah went out against him. כא וַיִּשְׁלַח אֵלָיו מַלְאָכִים לֵאמֹר מַה-לִּי וָלָךְ מֶלֶךְ יְהוּדָה, לֹא-עָלֶיךָ אַתָּה הַיּוֹם כִּי אֶל-בֵּית מִלְחַמְתִּי, וֵאלֹהִים, אָמַר לְבַהֲלֵנִי: חֲדַל-לְךָ מֵאֱלֹהִים אֲשֶׁר-עִמִּי, וְאַל-יַשְׁחִיתֶךָ. 21 But he sent ambassadors to him, saying: 'What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war; and God hath given command to speed me; forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that He destroy thee not.' כב וְלֹא-הֵסֵב יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ פָנָיו מִמֶּנּוּ, כִּי לְהִלָּחֵם-בּוֹ הִתְחַפֵּשׂ, וְלֹא שָׁמַע אֶל-דִּבְרֵי נְכוֹ, מִפִּי אֱלֹהִים; וַיָּבֹא, לְהִלָּחֵם בְּבִקְעַת מְגִדּוֹ. 22 Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Neco, from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. כג וַיֹּרוּ, הַיֹּרִים, לַמֶּלֶךְ, יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ; וַיֹּאמֶר הַמֶּלֶךְ לַעֲבָדָיו הַעֲבִירוּנִי, כִּי הָחֳלֵיתִי מְאֹד. 23 And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants: 'Have me away; for I am sore wounded.' כד וַיַּעֲבִירֻהוּ עֲבָדָיו מִן-הַמֶּרְכָּבָה, וַיַּרְכִּיבֻהוּ עַל רֶכֶב הַמִּשְׁנֶה אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ, וַיּוֹלִיכֻהוּ יְרוּשָׁלִַם, וַיָּמָת וַיִּקָּבֵר בְּקִבְרוֹת אֲבֹתָיו; וְכָל-יְהוּדָה, וִירוּשָׁלִַם, מִתְאַבְּלִים, עַל-יֹאשִׁיָּהוּ. {פ} 24 So his servants took him out of the chariot, and put him in the second chariot that he had, and brought him to Jerusalem; and he died, and was buried in the sepulchres of his fathers https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt25b35.htm#20 ( This was the same Josiah who put together the 'ancient part' of the Jewish history , his scribes no doubt had a lot to do with the collating of various older myths known about in that part of the 'world sphere' at the time and melded it with the new accounts ( supposedly' ) old law ' supposedly found by a scribe in some old vault during temple renovations . The , somehow, Josiah goes from challenging the word of God from Pharoahs mouth and being killed , to some great hero and then the 'new ' religion gets established . But just about everything before that is a borrowed conglomeration . The very curious thing is , that version of events ; ( creation of the world , the flood, Noah , the Sons that went out and repopulated the earth and from whom sprung the different races ( you should read ho we got black people from them YIKES ! ) , etc , etc Was around the walls of the British Museum unto the very late 1800s ! here is part of the chart from the museum how the world got all its languages after the Tower of Babel .... and it still influences us and the world ... even today ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Monday at 11:23 PM 8 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation. Indeed . I have never encountered Jesus saying that before ! ; 'Now I've said it, its scripture and can't be taken back ! " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSkyDiamond Posted yesterday at 12:13 AM (edited) 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation. They may be referring to Psalm 82:6 (not part of the New Testament). The Hebrew for Psalms 82:6 is: (the Psalms were written in Hebrew)אֲנִי-אָמַרְתִּי, אֱלֹהִים אַתֶּם; וּבְנֵי עֶלְיוֹן כֻּלְּכֶם. The word אֱלֹהִים (elohim) can mean "God". It can also mean: "judge," little g "gods," "judge," "power," or "important person. " Note that there is a difference between big "G" God and little "g" gods. Some translations of Psalms 82:6 show elohim as "godlike beings" or "angels" or "angelic creatures." The context of Psalms 82 is that it is a rebuke directed at corrupt judges and magistrates, they are important people with power. There is a section in the New Testament, where Jesus quotes that line from Psalms 82:6. Edited yesterday at 12:32 AM by BigSkyDiamond 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 23 hours ago The magistrates were considered 'Gods among the people' as they were the ones 'divinely appointed ' - but the next bit in the psalm says they will die too , as mortals ( or even as 'mere mortals' ) . Because they were 'set above the people' and were expected to act like God ( s ) amongst them , compared to the people , they were 'gods' . But in the overall picture they were not G/God/s and the people certainly were not considered that way . The NT part where Jesus refers to the psalm is a like a theological debating point with some Jewish challengers , where Jesus realizes the hypocrisy of them 'trying to get him' because they say he said he was God , or God's son . So Jesus was ... what about your guys scripture which you are now using to discredit me ! It says ..... ... and ya know how people get pissed off when that happens . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSkyDiamond Posted 23 hours ago (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nungali said: The magistrates were considered 'Gods among the people' as they were the ones 'divinely appointed ' - but the next bit in the psalm says they will die too , as mortals ( or even as 'mere mortals' ) . Because they were 'set above the people' and were expected to act like God ( s ) amongst them , compared to the people , they were 'gods' . But in the overall picture they were not G/God/s and the people certainly were not considered that way . Post above fails to differentiate between God (big G) and gods (little g). The Psalm is rebuking judges and magistrates who were important people. Edited 23 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 22 hours ago 57 minutes ago, Nungali said: The magistrates were considered 'gods among the people' as they were the ones 'divinely appointed ' - but the next bit in the psalm says they will die too , as mortals ( or even as 'mere mortals' ) . Because they were 'set above the people' and were expected to act like god ( s ) amongst them , compared to the people , they were 'gods' . But in the overall picture they were not G/God/s and the people certainly were not considered that way . The NT part where Jesus refers to the psalm is a like a theological debating point with some Jewish challengers , where Jesus realizes the hypocrisy of them 'trying to get him' because they say he said he was God , or God's son . So Jesus was ... what about your guys scripture which you are now using to discredit me ! It says ..... ... and ya know how people get pissed off when that happens . Happy now ? 51 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said: The Psalm is rebuking judges and magistrates who were important people. It is rebuking and warning corrupt judges . rebuking refers to ' criticism of (someone) because of their behaviour or actions.' and saying they should judge fairly and be honorable and not to forget that they too will die and be judged - so do a good job ! unless you are claiming ALL the judges were corrupt ? Then it might fit . Why would 'important people' need rebuking just because of being important or holding a divinely appoint office ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthWide Posted 19 hours ago (edited) 20 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: I would be grateful for the direct quote and citation. In John Chapter ten, Jesus claims that he will die. The pharasees claim he has a demon. He says he is the Son of God. They get ready to stone him. He Then Says: 34Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law : ‘I SAID , YOU ARE GODS ’? 35If he called them gods , to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be nullified ), 36are you saying of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world , ‘You are blaspheming ,’ because I said , ‘I am the Son of God ’? --John 10:34 Here Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6 'You are Gods' "Let us make man in our image according to our likeness and have in dominion .. [everything on earth and the earth]"-- Genesis 1:26 It is clear that Adom (humans) are earthbound Gods, that recieve provision from God among other things. Adom has the same Creative and destructive power as God, although not all mighty. What about evil? Evil recieves a reduced provision, dying in increments (Ezekiel "die until you are dead" idiom) much akin to a burning sensation, a fire that is not there. Scripture and Holy Spirit convicts people in this. Declaration of scripture, yes. 12“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. --John 14:12 Jesus made his followers "Mega" creatures much akin to Seraph (burning/holy) and Tannim (monsters). In this way we have access to angels of wonder like the old testament. The reason Christians are waking up now is the Two witness Prophecy in Revelation. Zechariah speaks of the two Olive Trees, just as Revelation does. Now, since knowledge has increased we know now that trees represent GROUPS of people, in this case two groups. One is Christians (the bible Breathing non-indoctrinated kind) the other... is Jews that came to Christ. This used to be an uncertain thing, but now that Christians are blessing, cursing those that cause evil, it is a done thing. This has already begun. Psalm 37 (context)1Do not fret because of evildoers, Be not envious toward wrongdoers. 2For they will wither quickly like the grass And fade like the green herb. 3Trust in the LORD and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. 4Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart. 5Commit your way to the LORD, Trust also in Him, and He will do it. 6He will bring forth your righteousness as the light And your judgment as the noonday. 7Rest in the LORD and wait patiently for Him; Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way, Because of the man who carries out wicked schemes. 8Cease from anger and forsake wrath; Do not fret; it leads only to evildoing. 9For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land. 10Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there. 11But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity. 12The wicked plots against the righteous And gnashes at him with his teeth. 13The Lord laughs at him, For He sees his day is coming. 14The wicked have drawn the sword and bent their bow To cast down the afflicted and the needy, To slay those who are upright in conduct. 15Their sword will enter their own heart, And their bows will be broken. 16Better is the little of the righteous Than the abundance of many wicked. 17For the arms of the wicked will be broken, But the LORD sustains the righteous. 18The LORD knows the days of the blameless, And their inheritance will be forever. 19They will not be ashamed in the time of evil, And in the days of famine they will have abundance. 20But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish—like smoke they vanish away. 21The wicked borrows and does not pay back, But the righteous is gracious and gives. 22For those blessed by Him will inherit the land, But those cursed by Him will be cut off. 23The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way. 24When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong, Because the LORD is the One who holds his hand. 25I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread. 26All day long he is gracious and lends, And his descendants are a blessing. 27Depart from evil and do good, So you will abide forever. 28For the LORD loves justice And does not forsake His godly ones; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off. 29The righteous will inherit the land And dwell in it forever. 30The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom, And his tongue speaks justice. 31The law of his God is in his heart; His steps do not slip. 32The wicked spies upon the righteous And seeks to kill him. 33The LORD will not leave him in his hand Or let him be condemned when he is judged. 34Wait for the LORD and keep His way, And He will exalt you to inherit the land; When the wicked are cut off, you will see it. 35I have seen a wicked, violent man Spreading himself like a luxuriant tree in its native soil. 36Then he passed away, and lo, he was no more; I sought for him, but he could not be found. 37Mark the blameless man, and behold the upright; For the man of peace will have a posterity. 38But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off. 39But the salvation of the righteous is from the LORD; He is their strength in time of trouble. 40The LORD helps them and delivers them; He delivers them from the wicked and saves them, Because they take refuge in Him. Second Context: Daniel 7:22 22until the Ancient of Days (Jesus) came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom. Also 25&26 . 25‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26‘But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. SinCe only God sets times and law this person from the paSt would have insituted eVil law Lets talk about emptiness. It allows us to be humble and to learn. And praise Yahweh. Edited 18 hours ago by NorthWide Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
心神 ~ Posted 19 hours ago (edited) 45 minutes ago, NorthWide said: In John Chapter ten, Jesus claims that he will die. The pharasees claim he has a demon. He says he is the Son of God. They get ready to stone him. He Then Says: 34Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law : ‘I SAID , YOU ARE GODS ’? 35If he called them gods , to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be nullified ), 36are you saying of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world , ‘You are blaspheming ,’ because I said , ‘I am the Son of God ’? --John 10:34 Here Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6 'You are Gods' Thank you. 45 minutes ago, NorthWide said: Jesus made his followers "Mega" creatures much akin to Seraph (burning/holy) and Tannim (monsters). I'm unclear on what this means. Can you elaborate? ————— In your estimation, how does this relate to the creation stories of the Annunaki? That we are a genetically engineered slave race, saved only by the divine spark placed into us by our creator mother, Mami? Do you believe Yeshua is Enki (Ea – Yah?), Lord of the Sweet Waters, Knowledge, Crafts, and Creation? (Yeshua – water, fish, age of Aquarius, carpenter, life bearer) What does it mean to come to Christ? Most would say it is to recognize that he is God, but he declares himself to be the Son of God and when he speaks from the perspective of God, it is in the tradition of the prophets. Thoughts? Edited 19 hours ago by 心神 ~ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthWide Posted 18 hours ago 10 minutes ago, 心神 ~ said: Thank you. I'm unclear on what this means. Can you elaborate? ————— In your estimation, how does this relate to the creation stories of the Annunaki? That we are a genetically engineered slave race, saved only by the divine spark placed into us by our creator mother, Mami? Do you believe Yeshua is Enki (Ea – Yah?), Lord of the Sweet Waters, Knowledge, Crafts, and Creation? (Yeshua – water, fish, age of Aquarius, carpenter, life bearer) What does it mean to come to Christ? Most would say it is to recognize that he is God, but he declares himself to be the Son of God and when he speaks from the perspective of God, it is in the tradition of the prophets. Thoughts? John 14:12 uses meizona, μείζονα, or Megas in relation to those who would do greater things. The annunaki are the stories from before the flood where humans even incorporated elements (huge idea concepts) within themselves beyond the Giants that existed. They knew of giant Birds stored up for the final day of wrath the Ziz Saday. So, Bird imagery was totally Fresh in their minds. To come to Christ, Means to totally renounce oneself, to die, and live in Christ, to loVe righteousness, kindness, to loVe God completely that Jesus Saves and to read at least 4 to five pages of the Bible every day to be sustained and to ask Jesus for guidance. To change and live with Jesus directing you personally. its a very personal experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
心神 ~ Posted 18 hours ago Interesting thoughts, thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 6 hours ago There is a more direct relationship to other sources with the Psalms . Just like your thread shows us an origin for the Noah story , many psalms can be compared with the original Egyptian . Some psalms were said to be sung in Solomon's court or palace ( I am not sure if there was singing in the temple ? ) , it was part of the Egyptian rituals that these parts of the scripture seems to be drawn from ; Harpist with percussion back up . The word appearing in Psalms - 'Selah' - is interesting to look up . Comparisons with psalms and Egyptian hymns ; https://www.thetorah.com/article/psalm-104-and-its-parallels-in-pharaoh-akhenatens-hymn Papyrus rolls found in Tell el-Amarna revealed the full texts of more than a psalm of the Book of Psalms written in ancient hieroglyphs, and which preceded the Psalms of David written in Hebrew since more than 300 years. Together with historians from Berlin Museum, Egyptian Egyptologist, Selim Hassan, found three pages of Akhenaten's “The Great Hymn to the Aten” written to the sun-disk deity Aten, which were perfectly identical to those of the Books of the Torah, in spite of preceding the Psalms of David by more than seven centuries. They were inscribed on a right-side wall in Ay’s tomb at Tell el-Amarna, on 13 vertical columns at the entrance to the tomb. https://www.egyptiangeographic.com/en/news/show/332 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthWide Posted 5 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, Nungali said: There is a more direct relationship to other sources with the Psalms . Just like your thread shows us an origin for the Noah story , many psalms can be compared with the original Egyptian . Some psalms were said to be sung in Solomon's court or palace ( I am not sure if there was singing in the temple ? ) , it was part of the Egyptian rituals that these parts of the scripture seems to be drawn from ; Harpist with percussion back up . The word appearing in Psalms - 'Selah' - is interesting to look up . Comparisons with psalms and Egyptian hymns ; https://www.thetorah.com/article/psalm-104-and-its-parallels-in-pharaoh-akhenatens-hymn Papyrus rolls found in Tell el-Amarna revealed the full texts of more than a psalm of the Book of Psalms written in ancient hieroglyphs, and which preceded the Psalms of David written in Hebrew since more than 300 years. Together with historians from Berlin Museum, Egyptian Egyptologist, Selim Hassan, found three pages of Akhenaten's “The Great Hymn to the Aten” written to the sun-disk deity Aten, which were perfectly identical to those of the Books of the Torah, in spite of preceding the Psalms of David by more than seven centuries. They were inscribed on a right-side wall in Ay’s tomb at Tell el-Amarna, on 13 vertical columns at the entrance to the tomb. https://www.egyptiangeographic.com/en/news/show/332 I cant totally agree, neither will I speak for others. Hebrew for evil is Ra' or Ra'ah There were numerous cultures since Sumer that demonized the culture they left. That I can agree on. However, since the past is distant, we are at the crossroads of what is Decided about the future. Do we keep rewriting the past? Thats anxiety and pride. The future? Thats depression. The common thread in societies is slavery whether monetary/mental or physical. The only way to free oneself is to forgive others, God, ourselves and hold ourselves accountable. To be truthful as we possibly can. To build the kingdom. Since Jesus uses the Greek word Θεοί - Theoi he meant Gods. After the Ancient of Days (Jesus) sat down, only the righteous will judge and truth will prevail. Now, only the righteous will judge. Edited 3 hours ago by NorthWide Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigSkyDiamond Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, NorthWide said: There were numerous cultures since Sumer that demonized the culture they left. The leader Akenhaten was demonized by his own culture. After he died, the sun-disk deity Aten which the leader Akenhaten imposed and forced upon his subjects, was removed from place of prominence and the previous pantheon of deities (polytheism) was restored. Worship of the sun-disk deity Aten (the new religion which some today are now labeling"monotheism") was never widespread in Egypt nor was it long lasting. It was local and specific to the imposed rule of Akenhaten, who reigned for only 17 years. Polytheism in Egypt on the the other hand lasted 3,000 years. "Akhenaten was deeply unpopular by the end of his reign. There had been many plagues and droughts during the end of his rule, and the high priests were essentially planning a civil war or coup against the royal family. Basically, Aten worship was seen as a bad thing, and the cause of the ruin of Egypt, so Akhenaten’s works, his family’s works, and his temples were wiped from the slate of history and the old religion reinstated without much protest and with great joy. And this all happened within a span of 40 years." A successor Pharaoh changed his name from Tutankhaten ("living image of Aten") to Tutankhamen ("living image of Amun"). read more here. Edited 3 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
