ChiDragon

You and Wu in Chapter One

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1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

各异 … Huainanzi


That’sĀ another author.

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie
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1 hour ago, whocoulditbe? said:

How could 各異 have been replaced with ē•°å? Is it down to visual similarity?

not only. them two basically mean the same thing

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8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… them two basically mean the same thing


So the whole thing is a red herring.

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie

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1 hour ago, whocoulditbe? said:

How could 各異 have been replaced with ē•°å? Is it down to visual similarity?

各異: each is different

ē•°å: differ in name

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Ā 

On 23/09/2023 at 2:46 AM, Mig said:

… The editions by Heshang Gong and Wang Bi are popular and are used as a reference with all the commentaries from different scholars throughout ages. …


Provided it fits the characters, it’s imo ok to make a new interpretation.

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie

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Ā 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… 

ę•…åøøę— ę¬²ļ¼Œä»„č§‚å…¶å¦™ļ¼›the eternal desirelessness is the marvel

åøøęœ‰ę¬²ļ¼Œä»„č§‚å…¶å¾¼ć€‚Ā the eternal desirefullnessĀ is the fringe

ę­¤äø¤č€…ļ¼ŒåŒå‡ŗč€Œå¼‚åļ¼Œthese two together produce all differently named things

 …

(my highlight)


:blink: … what/who are ā€œthese twoā€? Are they ā€œdesirelessnessā€ and ā€œdesirefullnessā€?

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie
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Ā 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

ā€¦Ā åøøęœ‰ę¬²ļ¼Œä»„č§‚å…¶å¾¼ć€‚ the eternal desirefullnessĀ is the fringe …


(Just joking, it’s clear what you mean) What type of ā€œfringeā€?Ā :lol:

Ā 

image.jpeg.d0a7e4e66d57408de6fc5a95f9744c3e.jpeg
Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie
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8 hours ago, Cobie said:

According to Sinologists ā€œcompoundsā€ are rare in Classical Chinese. Ā 

What about according to native speakers. What about 焔为 andĀ  ęœ‰äøŗ?

Ā 

Edited by ChiDragon

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On 9/23/2023 at 6:07 PM, ChiDragon said:

The following chapters support Chapter 1 corresponds toĀ ē„” and ꜉.
Disregard in blue:
Chapter 2:Ā 

6.ęœ‰ē„”ē›øē”Ÿ
6. You(꜉)Ā andĀ Wu(焔 )
mutually produce each other.

Chapter 40

3. å¤©äø‹č¬ē‰©ē”Ÿę–¼ęœ‰ļ¼Œ
4. ęœ‰ē”Ÿę–¼ē„”ć€‚

3. All things in the world came fromĀ ęœ‰(you).
4.Ā ęœ‰(you)came fromĀ ē„”(wu).


It is getting interesting. HowĀ wrong could oneĀ be?Ā I just rechecked my source.Ā 

Correction:
In Chapter 2:
꜉and焔 are not the same as in Chapter 1.Ā Ā ęœ‰meansĀ something that has already existed.Ā ē„”isĀ something thatĀ does not exist. Please disregard Chapter 2 as example.

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10 hours ago, Cobie said:

Ā 

(my highlight)


:blink: … what/who are ā€œthese twoā€? Are they ā€œdesirelessnessā€ and ā€œdesirefullnessā€?

Ā 

Ā 

good guess. yes they are

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Ā 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

ā€¦Ā ę•…åøøę— ę¬²ļ¼Œä»„č§‚å…¶å¦™ļ¼›the eternal desirelessness is the marvel

åøøęœ‰ę¬²ļ¼Œä»„č§‚å…¶å¾¼ć€‚ the eternal desirefullnessĀ is the fringe

ę­¤äø¤č€…ļ¼ŒåŒå‡ŗč€Œå¼‚åļ¼Œthese two together produce all differently named things. …


How do ā€œdesirelessnessā€ and ā€œdesirefullnessā€ ā€œtogetherĀ produce all differently named thingsā€?

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie

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On 18/09/2023 at 10:35 PM, ChiDragon said:

ā€¦Ā é“åÆé“ļ¼Œéžåøøé“ć€‚ā€¦Ā Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. …

Ā 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… é“åÆé“ļ¼Œéžåøøé“ć€‚dao which can be spoken is not an eternal dao …

Ā 

If this was so, there would be no point in reading the DDJ.Ā So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.


Ā 

Edited by Cobie
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40 minutes ago, Cobie said:

If this was so, there would be no point in reading the DDJ.Ā So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.

Ā 


You are only looking at one star in the universe. Without reading the whole book is like the blinds touching one part of the elephant and coming to a conclusion. I am sure you haveĀ heard of the idiom: åäŗ•č§€å¤©Ā or 井底之蛙

PS
Don't you think it is kind of naive for Laotze to write a book with five thousand charactersĀ for nothing?Ā  Again, the "five-year-oldĀ child" phrase still stands. Peace.
:D

Edited by ChiDragon

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Ā 

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Don't you think it is kind of naive for Laotze to write a book with five thousand charactersĀ for nothing?Ā 


Exactly. That’s why I wrote:

Ā 

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.


Ā 

Edited by Cobie

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Ā åäŗ•č§€å¤© and  井底之蛙

Now, you may rest without spending any more time looking into the TTC.

Ā 

Edited by ChiDragon
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2 minutes ago, Cobie said:


Wat je zegt dat ben jezelf


åŒę„Ÿ!Ā åŒę„Ÿ!Ā :D

Edited by ChiDragon
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MWD A :Ā é“åÆé“ä¹Ÿļ¼Œéžę†é“ä¹ŸĀ 

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie

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也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.

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6 minutes ago, Cobie said:

也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.


I believe thatĀ č€å­čØ»č­ÆåŠč©•ä»‹Ā is more reliable. Period.

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1 hour ago, Cobie said:

也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.


It enhancesĀ the tone of the meaningĀ but definitely does not change the meaning of the sentence.Ā 

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Ā 

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

… See Kroll.

Ā 

59 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I believe thatĀ č€å­čØ»č­ÆåŠč©•ä»‹Ā is more reliable. Period.

Ā 

48 minutes ago, Cobie said:

okidokiĀ 


Period.

Ā 

Ā 

Edited by Cobie
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11 hours ago, Cobie said:

How do ā€œdesirelessnessā€ and ā€œdesirefullnessā€ ā€œtogetherĀ produce all differently named thingsā€?

like this

Ā 

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