Nuralshamal Posted July 16 On 7.7.2025 at 1:28 PM, Constantine said: Just a note to say thank you Nuralshamal for your insights here. I had been seriously considering enrolling in study with Jason Read, as I have found his books to be very interesting as an introduction to Maoshan magic. I found the magic is accessible, and I have had success with using his translations, including in establishing contact with Hu Xian. I wish he had included tones on his pinyin though, I don't speak Chinese so I rely on these for correct pronunciation. I have found google translate useful in resolving this. Your experiences in studying with him was really helpful and helped me dodge a bullet (or a bite) it seems. I had found a couple of you tube video interviews with him and he really does look sick and drawn compared to the strong vital shots I found of him in his younger years. The vampiric techniques you say he is inflicting on his students while looking so sick himself does smack of a negative attachment doesn't it. I'll take the opportunity to thank you also for your feedback on Master Wu, I picked up his book on Microcosmic orbit qigong last month, and after trying it a few times, I decided to put it down for now, as the energy coming from it was really strong, I got a sense that my body wasn't fully ready to hold the energy it was generating if I kept going. I'll be building a stronger foundation with Tai Chi and FPCK first, but I am very excited to deeply study his forms in the future, there seems to be a really raw and powerful energy behind his form combined with the visualisations. I appreciate you have studied with him in person, but do you perchance have any of his dvds? How did you find them if so? Would definitely recommend you to keep going, that is the best way to make yourself stronger. Yes, I used his Cosmic Orbit DVD in the beginning 6 months when I was reading his books before I decided to go for a live workshop. It's great, but it's nothing compared to going to a live workshop. So follow the DVD, and when you've done a couple of 49 day cycles of daily practice without fail, take an online class with him. Do a couple of 49 day cycles of daily practice without fail with that. Then when you're ready mentally and financially (to invest time and money), go to a workshop. Then do 49 day cycles of that. Then again when you're ready for the larger investment of time and money, go on a retreat. Wu is hands down the most legit and authentic practioner. I have also critiqued him slightly here and there over the years, but honestly, after so many years, trying so many teachers and schools, his stuff is just so legit and authentic, I've not found anyone cloes to him, only ZYM, but he's so inacessible. Why waste time with inferior stuff "to make yourself ready?" Go for gold ASAP, you're just wasting time. The time "to prepare yourself" could've been spent leveling up and going further in your cultivation journey. We have so limited time in this life on this planet to level up spiritually, and trust me, truly leveling up spiritually is a life long journey of daily practice, it's not just over night. Every single moment is precious, don't waste it. Ofc we need some foreplay to get going, but endless foreplay serves no one. Go for the main act! Why waste time? That you've come across him means you're ready. So go for it! Enjoy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted August 15 wow, very interesting thread, I appreciate all of the commentary especially OP's openness about the Mao Shan school. I've read a few of Jason's books Fox Magic, Practical Chinese Magic and Thunder Rites. While I found his books extremely informative I was disappointed with a lot of the imagery and lack of explaining some of some elements. The Fu talismans presented in Fox Magic for example, were pretty bad and nearly unreproducible/blurry, numerous spelling mistakes and grammatical errors which the editor should have caught prior to printing kind of annoyed me and brought into question if there were (perhaps) other important factors and possible errors in the rituals themselves. I really enjoyed Fox Magic otherwise and used some of those concepts in my personal work, but I found that Benebell Wen's Kitsune commentary and associative essay's on Queen Mother of the West more beneficial to me personally. Another example which still standout is the Thunder Magic rites. He mentions that if one has "bamboo fingers" or hands then they should definitely not even attempt the rites described in the book. Yet, he fails to tell the reader what exactly "bamboo fingers" are or at the very least how to find out if you have this quality. Just something that still sticks out to me all these years later. I decided to watch a few of his interviews, which I did like and received ok vibes from. But, yes as others noted above, he looked a little sickly for someone who cultivates. Before I attempt a system I want to know what the teacher looks like, body language, eyes, and go from there. He didn't look too good in my opinion. I still appreciate his content, but I move from a place of caution when attempting the rites described in his books. awesome thread and extremely informative. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuralshamal Posted August 25 @Lala Nila thanks for your positive feedback! Glad you found it useful And thanks for also sharing your own experiences and observations of his books and interviews. I really wished he was the real deal, as it's almost impossible to penetrate these obscure spiritual arts. Kudos to him for his "academic" side of translation, studies and explanations for sure, bringing all this obscure stuff into the limelight for those interested. I do feel just like you said that he's not a powerful cultivator, which is a pretty big and important point. What's the use of knowledge, if you don't live and embody it? That's more or less the whole daoist philosophy, embodiment and the practice first, including health and vitality, then you get understanding through practicing, and not so much from intellectual studies. Because like you said, there are some super interesting things here and there, e.g. for me there were specially 1 or 2 mantras/talismans from the Black Magic section that shocked me, simply because they actually worked! NOTE, it wasn't black magic I did ofc, it was a kind of energy practice to help with some practical things in life, which ofc didn't include hurting myself or others, but to help myself and others. The vast majority of the rest I felt something, but it wasn't life changing. If I feel anything at all, I'm always positively surprised, as in my own personal experience 99% of what we can find out there is 100% fake, whereas the real is few and far between. So my appetite whetted from these black magic, I obviously wanted to go on, it would be so cool to be friends with him and having him personally coach you with all his knowledge and share the exact teachings you're interested in with you, but as I shared earlier, all personal interactions with him left me super drained and unhappy, pale in my face and dark under the eyes, also he's so flaky and slightly manipulative in his dealings, which led me to having to completely stop all interactions with him, unfortunately. But most of us are ofc one trick ponies, we can do one thing very well, then fail at everything else. E.g. some are pleasant people to hang around, but completely incompetent. Others are highly competent but complete assholes. In cultivation someone might have one chakra, dan tien, talisman or energy they're good at, but they suck as people and their personal life is a mess. I could go on. Seems he's good intellectually, he has studied and translated so much, he has a great overall knowledge of all these occult folk magic practices and how they work, how they fit into chinese history and daoism/confucianism/buddhism, differences and commonalities etc. So he's knowledgeable, but he's not a cultivator, nor a people person, nor a personal coach/guide/master for one-on-one. It would be cool to use him as a personal librarian, him being your tome-pusher, sliding you what you need but ofc he has his own interests. Feel he's mainly interested in just getting chinese folk magic out there, and then secondly carving a place for himself in the social hierarchy in the niche of the occult and getting some much needed recognition after a life behind the scenes socially most of the time So not interested in the people in his school, their personal life, personal cultivation, personal succeses and failures, he's just interested in getting things out there. No problem with that, but that's just my feeling, which ofc doesn't align well with my personal interest of a one-on-one tome-pusher helping me in my personal cultivation, personal life, overcoming life obstacles, getting health, wealth, success etc, as well as developing spiritually Anyway, peace to all! Rant over, mic drop, I'm out, God bless you 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted August 25 42 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said: @Lala Nila thanks for your positive feedback! Glad you found it useful And thanks for also sharing your own experiences and observations of his books and interviews. I really wished he was the real deal, as it's almost impossible to penetrate these obscure spiritual arts. Kudos to him for his "academic" side of translation, studies and explanations for sure, bringing all this obscure stuff into the limelight for those interested. I do feel just like you said that he's not a powerful cultivator, which is a pretty big and important point. What's the use of knowledge, if you don't live and embody it? That's more or less the whole daoist philosophy, embodiment and the practice first, including health and vitality, then you get understanding through practicing, and not so much from intellectual studies. Because like you said, there are some super interesting things here and there, e.g. for me there were specially 1 or 2 mantras/talismans from the Black Magic section that shocked me, simply because they actually worked! NOTE, it wasn't black magic I did ofc, it was a kind of energy practice to help with some practical things in life, which ofc didn't include hurting myself or others, but to help myself and others. The vast majority of the rest I felt something, but it wasn't life changing. If I feel anything at all, I'm always positively surprised, as in my own personal experience 99% of what we can find out there is 100% fake, whereas the real is few and far between. So my appetite whetted from these black magic, I obviously wanted to go on, it would be so cool to be friends with him and having him personally coach you with all his knowledge and share the exact teachings you're interested in with you, but as I shared earlier, all personal interactions with him left me super drained and unhappy, pale in my face and dark under the eyes, also he's so flaky and slightly manipulative in his dealings, which led me to having to completely stop all interactions with him, unfortunately. But most of us are ofc one trick ponies, we can do one thing very well, then fail at everything else. E.g. some are pleasant people to hang around, but completely incompetent. Others are highly competent but complete assholes. In cultivation someone might have one chakra, dan tien, talisman or energy they're good at, but they suck as people and their personal life is a mess. I could go on. Seems he's good intellectually, he has studied and translated so much, he has a great overall knowledge of all these occult folk magic practices and how they work, how they fit into chinese history and daoism/confucianism/buddhism, differences and commonalities etc. So he's knowledgeable, but he's not a cultivator, nor a people person, nor a personal coach/guide/master for one-on-one. It would be cool to use him as a personal librarian, him being your tome-pusher, sliding you what you need but ofc he has his own interests. Feel he's mainly interested in just getting chinese folk magic out there, and then secondly carving a place for himself in the social hierarchy in the niche of the occult and getting some much needed recognition after a life behind the scenes socially most of the time So not interested in the people in his school, their personal life, personal cultivation, personal succeses and failures, he's just interested in getting things out there. No problem with that, but that's just my feeling, which ofc doesn't align well with my personal interest of a one-on-one tome-pusher helping me in my personal cultivation, personal life, overcoming life obstacles, getting health, wealth, success etc, as well as developing spiritually Anyway, peace to all! Rant over, mic drop, I'm out, God bless you It's unfortunate that there are so many charlatans, ego driven teachers, bad teachers, or people just looking to make a quick buck off you out there. As you stated he is not a teacher more of a scholar, it's good you recognized that. On the positive I'm happy that a few of his mantras and talisman worked for you! It's so important to keep your wits about you and trust your intuition. Mistakes happen, just learn from them and move on in a positive direction. All the best to you too! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuralshamal Posted August 25 @Lala Nila amen brother! Well said, words of wisdom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuralshamal Posted August 29 @Lala Nila By the way, what's your take on Jason's MaoShan? We've established he's more of a scholar/reader/translator than a powerful cultivator/practitioner. However, do you think he's even really truly initiated? And do you think he's even been given permission to initiate others? Aka is he even hooked up to a lineage field through a legit teacher or not, or are those all just stories to help make a name for himself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted August 29 54 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said: @Lala Nila By the way, what's your take on Jason's MaoShan? We've established he's more of a scholar/reader/translator than a powerful cultivator/practitioner. However, do you think he's even really truly initiated? And do you think he's even been given permission to initiate others? Aka is he even hooked up to a lineage field through a legit teacher or not, or are those all just stories to help make a name for himself? Just by the very act you asking me, is very revealing! If I recall correctly his wife holds a lineage, I'm not sure which lineage though. I think he has spoken to and studied under learned people, but does he hold a legit transmission, from a "legit" source? What makes something legitimate or not? His style is more shamanistic using heterodox formats, "folk-Daoist" concepts and his lineage has "their own alchemy." Just by the contents of this thread, especially what you have shared, I'm going to say you already know the answer and that answer is related to your own intuition/experiences. Would I throw the baby out with the bath water? Not completely, he has a lot of knowledge and is clearly passionate about transcribing and sharing what he has learned. Would I tread carefully? 100% Yes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8h9A_n4E6E&t=757s Jason explains his lineage in the link provided above, starting around the 20 min mark, but I recommend the entire interview, it gets really interesting around the 46 min mark, talking about entity work, how they can be draining, resulting in obsession, etc. Towards the end of the interview he states most of what he teaches doesn't require a transmission and that lineages go beyond "time and space," drawing from reservoirs of energy and spirits that are 1000's of years old. He is hooked up to something, but just because something is old doesn't necessarily make it beneficial or useful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuralshamal Posted August 30 @Lala Nila thanks for sharing your 2 cents! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master Logray Posted August 30 On 8/26/2025 at 1:25 AM, Nuralshamal said: Seems he's good intellectually, he has studied and translated so much, he has a great overall knowledge of all these occult folk magic practices and how they work, how they fit into chinese history and daoism/confucianism/buddhism, differences and commonalities etc. So he's knowledgeable, but he's not a cultivator, nor a people person, nor a personal coach/guide/master for one-on-one. It would be cool to use him as a personal librarian, him being your tome-pusher, sliding you what you need but ofc he has his own interests. Master Wu used to be an aerospace engineer in Xian, China. he served as Director of Shaanxi Province's Associations for Somatic Science and Research of Daoist Nourishing Life Practices. In this capacity he conducted many investigations into the clinical efficacy of Qigong. Then he went to USA and taught QiGong and other courses. It looks like he is more a scientist than even a scholar. I think his position would make him contribute a lot to Qigong studies. But if magic is concerned, being a top grade engineer and most likely a party member, how did he learn these superstitious and subversive activities which were tightly against by the China government? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuralshamal Posted August 30 37 minutes ago, Master Logray said: Master Wu used to be an aerospace engineer in Xian, China. he served as Director of Shaanxi Province's Associations for Somatic Science and Research of Daoist Nourishing Life Practices. In this capacity he conducted many investigations into the clinical efficacy of Qigong. Then he went to USA and taught QiGong and other courses. It looks like he is more a scientist than even a scholar. I think his position would make him contribute a lot to Qigong studies. But if magic is concerned, being a top grade engineer and most likely a party member, how did he learn these superstitious and subversive activities which were tightly against by the China government? Hey @Master Logray Thanks for your interesting questions! Ofc this is a thread on Jason Read, but I'll answer about Wu's story shortly He was born and raised in a very primitive village, no electricity, no running water, no heat, no roads, no bicycles, cars, nothing. They lived as people did thousands of years ago. They had to go fetch water themselves, crack it open with pickaxes during icecold winter, warm themselves by the fire, traditional lifestyle. No showers or baths like we know, you shower "in a bucket" if you've ever been to villages in Africa, the Middle East or India you might know. Some places in Asia too. There's a bucket of water, then with a smaller bucket your pour it on yourself. That's a "shower". So ofc they also didn't have modern medicine, drugs etc. They lived using the old school ways, e.g. yi jing divination, daoist mantras, mudras, talismans, fetching local herbs on the nearby mountain etc. He was very weak and sickly as a child, but at around 4 years of age he learnt some basic qigong forms from the local village priest/shaman/qigong teacher. He got better health-wise, so he kept training. I think it was only in his teens or 20s he left his village for the first time to go to school, that was the first time he saw busses, cars, roads, bicycles etc, and also the first time he met "modern" people who didn't necessarily believe in the traditional, old school worldview of spirits, ghosts, qi, ancestors etc. which shocked him, as were he came from all believed in the old ways. Further all these "superstitious things" (or indegenous wisdom as we'd call it today) were destroyed as much as possible by the communists, so he had to learn all these things "on the down low". But throughout his life he travelled far and wide in China to further his studies and learnt all kinds of different practices. Obviously like you said, when he was in the national association, he had to filter everything "magical" away, and keep it strictly "modern, atheist, materialist, medicine worldview", yet he ofc maintained his own traditional practice personally, yet in secret. Now in the West he slowly started sharing more and more openly about these magical things, but obviously in line with what westerners and his students "can take" or accept based on their own conventional beliefs or tcm views. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lala Nila Posted August 31 Quote Further all these "superstitious things" (or indegenous wisdom as we'd call it today) were destroyed as much as possible by the communists, so he had to learn all these things "on the down low". Jason read does discuss the "imperialism" of Daoism quite a bit in several interviews. He has to tread lightly on that topic, but he mentions how many shamanistic or folk beliefs were discouraged to help align it more cohesively with official government stance on those topics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites