Gender of the Dao

[RobB]

Hi all,

 

I was speaking to someone yesterday who referred to the Dao as 'her'. Is this commonplace? Seemed a bit odd to me.

 

 

[Cobie]

Laozi called Dao “the mother”.

 

DDJ Ch. 25: 

可 以 為 天下 母 未 知 亓 名 字 之 曰 道  

Victor Mair translation:

We may regard it as the mother of heaven and earth. 

Not knowing its name, I style it the "Way." 
 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Cobie

[RobB]

Thanks. But it looks like the translation also uses 'it' rather than 'her' so mothering sounds like a function/description here rather than  a gender indication? 

Edited May 17, 2023 by RobB

[Cobie]

Yes, could be  ;  as Classical Chinese pronouns are generic.
 

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Re. line 1

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可 以 為 天下 母 

We may regard it as the mother of heaven and earth. 

 

This ‘it’ is not in the text.

 

The text literally says:

可 以 為 天下 母 

May be regarded as the mother of heaven and earth. 

 

~~~<>~~~
Re. line 2

~~~<>~~~
 

未 知 亓 名 字 之 曰 道

Not knowing its name, I style it the "Way." 
 

The ‘it’s’ and ‘it’ here, are the translators choices; Classical Chinese pronouns are generic.

 

亓 - possessive pronoun, can stand for: his, her, their, it’s, one’s; 

之 - pronoun, can stand for: her, him, it, them, this, that, these, those; 

Classical Chinese lets the context make the differentiation. Sometimes translators have different interpretations.

I prefer:

未 知 亓 名 字 之 曰 道

Not knowing her name, I style her ‘Dao’.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Cobie

[dawei]

Dao's gender is an oxymoron as Dao precedes Two and even One; duality doesn't exist till there are Two in play and that's the phenomenal world. Our minds, thoughts, and language make us up, and the DDJ seems to encourage dropping these to some extent via Wu Wei and Zi Ran and be more 'child-like' or naturally flow like water, etc. But we don't escape duality, or I might say it is next to impossible while alive.

 

There is another thread that is seqwaying to cosmology issues and I'll say more there on this idea of DDJ42 opening line:

The Dao gives birth to one; one gives birth to two; two gives birth to three; three gives birth to the ten thousand things. - Eno

 

Such translations are a bit anthropomorphic because we have to use language to describe something outside of language.  That is why in another section it is said, "Not knowing its name"... because 'names' are the realm of language and the phenomenal world.