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Kundalini equivalent in Daoism?

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Is there a daoist equivalent for kundalini awakening? What type of energy is shakti/what is the daoist name? It is described as creative force, which makes me think that it is something other than qi (also because shakti is differentiated from prana, which is chi?), although it is described as warm and electric in sensation which matches the description of yang chi? If it is yin or yang, why the base of the spine? Does it reside in your LM dantien, and rise up the spine because it is a major channel of energy?

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The kundalini makes an appearance in some of the Daoist alchemical lines, but not all.

 

Shakti is considered a very refined form of Yang Qi, on the ‘divine’ spectrum. There is a term for it, but I don’t remember - it’s not a major part of my tradition. 
 

It doesn’t reside in your LDT - it resides in your sacrum. It’s one of several ‘pockets’ of this divine sort of Qi… 

 

Its considered to be quite high level, and inaccessible until quite far down your path. What many consider kundalini activation, from this traditional perspective it would just be basic yang Qi mobilisation through the spine. The kundalini is something quite different.

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11 hours ago, freeform said:

The kundalini makes an appearance in some of the Daoist alchemical lines, but not all.

 

Shakti is considered a very refined form of Yang Qi, on the ‘divine’ spectrum. There is a term for it, but I don’t remember - it’s not a major part of my tradition. 
 

It doesn’t reside in your LDT - it resides in your sacrum. It’s one of several ‘pockets’ of this divine sort of Qi… 

 

Its considered to be quite high level, and inaccessible until quite far down your path. What many consider kundalini activation, from this traditional perspective it would just be basic yang Qi mobilisation through the spine. The kundalini is something quite different.

Thanks for the reply. What exactly are the different types of chi? (apart from yin/yang) - you mentioned divine chi?

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12 hours ago, freeform said:

What many consider kundalini activation, from this traditional perspective it would just be basic yang Qi mobilisation through the spine. The kundalini is something quite different.

 

I really, really wish we could make billboards with this :) The amount of "kundalini" awakenings people claim to have is really something to behold

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There’s a whole spectrum… in reality Jing Qi and shen are all Qi at various ‘densities’.

 

there is also ‘pre-heaven’ and ‘post-heaven’ Qi.

 

there’s yin and yang Qi - and various mixtures of that… for instance kan and li are water and fire qualities (but not pure yin/yang).

 

There are also various types of Qi that arise from various transformations of the functioning of ones system. (Zhong Qi, Zhen Qi, Ying Qi, Wei Qi - and many others)

 

So there’s a lot.

 

The shakti Qi is a pre-heaven yang Qi at the spectrum closer to Shen. That’s as best as I can explain it (from my understanding).

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I really, really wish we could make billboards with this :) The amount of "kundalini" awakenings people claim to have is really something to behold

 

Absolutely agree!!! I was looking online for resources on kundalini, and specific meditation and breathwork techniques and all i found were american white girls who are like #totallykundaliniawakened and #omgsospiritual. Nearly had an aneurysm. That's when i realised that I should probably ask here to get any real information and answers. Kundalini has been absolutely violated by the western world

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3 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I really, really wish we could make billboards with this :) The amount of "kundalini" awakenings people claim to have is really something to behold


Yeah I think it makes things confusing when distinctions are blurred. Most of the kundalini syndromes people suffer are just out of control yang Qi. And your spine and back are where yang Qi expresses itself most… and can create strong sensations as it moves through the nerves so people draw parallels.

 

It can feel sort of exciting and exhilarating to have yang Qi coursing through you - like you’ve just come off a rollercoaster ride… but it quickly depletes the yin in your body and you start suffering with ‘empty heat’ symptoms… if it goes on for long, it can enter the head and create psychological issues… 

 

With his combination, it’s pretty easy to take what you read about kundalini, add in a bit of fantasy and imagination (due to too much Qi in the head) - and believe that you’ve opened your kundalini and you’re now an ascended master and so on.

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9 minutes ago, freeform said:

There’s a whole spectrum… in reality Jing Qi and shen are all Qi at various ‘densities’.

 

there is also ‘pre-heaven’ and ‘post-heaven’ Qi.

 

there’s yin and yang Qi - and various mixtures of that… for instance kan and li are water and fire qualities (but not pure yin/yang).

 

There are also various types of Qi that arise from various transformations of the functioning of ones system. (Zhong Qi, Zhen Qi, Ying Qi, Wei Qi - and many others)

 

So there’s a lot.

 

The shakti Qi is a pre-heaven yang Qi at the spectrum closer to Shen. That’s as best as I can explain it (from my understanding).

 

 

 

Whats the difference between pre-heaven and post-heaven qi? Apologies for all the questions, its just so hard to research these things without getting a filtered westernised version. You've already helped me make a lot of links in my understanding :) 

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2 minutes ago, Dev said:

Kundalini has been absolutely violated by the western world


Yeah completely agree. Though it’s not just the western world… some kundalini based yogic traditions will have many different levels of kundalini awakening - some of these levels are in fact just yang Qi mobilising…

 

And the gap between the first level of ‘kundalini awakening’ and the level where actual shakti is involved could be decades of training apart… 

 

So it becomes confusing.

 

With these kinds of traditions it’s worth being very careful and doing your due diligence on any school or tradition you’re looking into following. Also - don’t DIY it.

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4 minutes ago, freeform said:


Yeah I think it makes things confusing when distinctions are blurred. Most of the kundalini syndromes people suffer are just out of control yang Qi. And your spine and back are where yang Qi expresses itself most… and can create strong sensations as it moves through the nerves so people draw parallels.

 

It can feel sort of exciting and exhilarating to have yang Qi coursing through you - like you’ve just come off a rollercoaster ride… but it quickly depletes the yin in your body and you start suffering with ‘empty heat’ symptoms… if it goes on for long, it can enter the head and create psychological issues… 

 

With his combination, it’s pretty easy to take what you read about kundalini, add in a bit of fantasy and imagination (due to too much Qi in the head) - and believe that you’ve opened your kundalini and you’re now an ascended master and so on.

 

Question: previously you explained to me that goosebumps are qi moving close to surface of skin. I noticed that if i focus my attention on a specific area of my body the goosebumps will begin to travel in that direction, although they often phase out and don't actually condense there. Would this be a result of yang qi? How would i ensure that i maintain enough yin qi to maintain a balance?

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2 minutes ago, freeform said:


Yeah completely agree. Though it’s not just the western world… some kundalini based yogic traditions will have many different levels of kundalini awakening - some of these levels are in fact just yang Qi mobilising…

 

And the gap between the first level of ‘kundalini awakening’ and the level where actual shakti is involved could be decades of training apart… 

 

So it becomes confusing.

 

With these kinds of traditions it’s worth being very careful and doing your due diligence on any school or tradition you’re looking into following. Also - don’t DIY it.

 

Ahh, of course, the levels. I read that there are 49 levels somewhere? That makes a lot of sense. I've been clearing up the energy pathways in my body with kambo, but I'm going to take your advice and not pursue kundalini without a proper teacher

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4 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Whats the difference between pre-heaven and post-heaven qi? Apologies for all the questions, its just so hard to research these things without getting a filtered westernised version. You've already helped me make a lot of links in my understanding :) 


Pre-heaven is translated in all sorts of ways - primordial, prenatal etc.

 

Its the Qi that exists beyond this physical incarnation. It was there before you were born.

 

Its the process by which your spirit differentiates from Dao…

 

Post heaven Qi is what animates your body mind here in this physical form along with all the life processes - though there’s a pre-heaven ‘spark’ behind it.

 

When you die your post-heaven Qi ceases, but your pre-heaven Qi is still there and will guide ‘you’ through the process of transmigration.

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5 minutes ago, Dev said:

Would this be a result of yang qi? How would i ensure that i maintain enough yin qi to maintain a balance?


Yeah - yang Qi has an affinity with the nervous system and can directly influence it. In your case it’s not ‘pure’ yang Qi - it’s the yang aspect of your wei Qi that tends to hang out in the outer periphery of your body.

 

The cambo will have activated your Wei Qi which acts like a protective layer… so it sees the poison in the cambo as a pathogen, and is on high alert.

 

The reason people used it for hunting is because it stimulates the Wei Qi which makes you more energetically in touch with your environment.
 

Yin Qi is less obvious - it forms like pulses and fields like magnets. It’s not easy to feel at first. When your physical tissues start to interact with it, it will feel like pressure, expansion, contraction and so on.

 

To begin generating Yin Qi you’ll need to find and activate the lower Dantien… 

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4 hours ago, freeform said:


Yeah I think it makes things confusing when distinctions are blurred. Most of the kundalini syndromes people suffer are just out of control yang Qi. And your spine and back are where yang Qi expresses itself most… and can create strong sensations as it moves through the nerves so people draw parallels.

 

It can feel sort of exciting and exhilarating to have yang Qi coursing through you - like you’ve just come off a rollercoaster ride… but it quickly depletes the yin in your body and you start suffering with ‘empty heat’ symptoms… if it goes on for long, it can enter the head and create psychological issues… 

 

With his combination, it’s pretty easy to take what you read about kundalini, add in a bit of fantasy and imagination (due to too much Qi in the head) - and believe that you’ve opened your kundalini and you’re now an ascended master and so on.

 

100% agree

 

Scarier perhaps, is that there is a certain teacher going around claiming his students are having " kundalini" awakenings in a short period...and doesn't understand the mechanics of it at all....nor do they understand the potential damage it might cause

 

This obsession with  the somatic experience of rising Yang qi and associated "experiences"  does worry me...the psychological impact could be quite the problem going forward...especially if one is already somewhat compromised

 

Foundations are key....the rest will come in its own time if the methods are correct :)

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23 hours ago, freeform said:


Yeah - yang Qi has an affinity with the nervous system and can directly influence it. In your case it’s not ‘pure’ yang Qi - it’s the yang aspect of your wei Qi that tends to hang out in the outer periphery of your body.

 

The cambo will have activated your Wei Qi which acts like a protective layer… so it sees the poison in the cambo as a pathogen, and is on high alert.

 

The reason people used it for hunting is because it stimulates the Wei Qi which makes you more energetically in touch with your environment.
 

Yin Qi is less obvious - it forms like pulses and fields like magnets. It’s not easy to feel at first. When your physical tissues start to interact with it, it will feel like pressure, expansion, contraction and so on.

 

To begin generating Yin Qi you’ll need to find and activate the lower Dantien… 

 

So i did a bit of research into finding and activating the lower dantien, and from what i have understood: one must enter a deep state of meditation, a trance like state (delta) and then focus one's attention on the area of the dantien, and keep an eye out for any sensations or feelings? That each person will feel their dantien in a different way, with a different sensation? So for example warmth, or tingles, or electric feel, or something similar? Am i missing anything?

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There are a few different approaches. The quickest/easiest is with a combination of using correct standing practice and a teacher's assistance (they emit Qi into your LDT, which then works to attract more Qi to it). It also normally takes a teacher's assistance to help you get the right posture for standing.

 

The other, more 'DIYable' approach is by sinking your mind, your breath and your Qi to the correct area. 'Sinking' is different to just moving your attention there (which tends to send the 'deeper' Qi up to your head even if your awareness is low).

 

This approach takes longer and is more nuanced, but even the poeple doing the standing practice will eventually have to achieve this anyway - it's just slower to get the initial results. I've seen some good videos by Damo Mitchell that would help to achieve it (it'll take a while, just be patient and work on it a little every day). These practices and videos will help you get started the right way.

 

I've not come across anything as authentic being taught in public. But I'm sure there are others - I just don't know them. (Avoid Mantak Chia, anything by the Healing Tao organisation or any system with a heavy emphasis on visualisation - but that's just my opinion)

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, freeform said:

There are a few different approaches. The quickest/easiest is with a combination of using correct standing practice and a teacher's assistance (they emit Qi into your LDT, which then works to attract more Qi to it). It also normally takes a teacher's assistance to help you get the right posture for standing.

 

The other, more 'DIYable' approach is by sinking your mind, your breath and your Qi to the correct area. 'Sinking' is different to just moving your attention there (which tends to send the 'deeper' Qi up to your head even if your awareness is low).

 

This approach takes longer and is more nuanced, but even the poeple doing the standing practice will eventually have to achieve this anyway - it's just slower to get the initial results. I've seen some good videos by Damo Mitchell that would help to achieve it (it'll take a while, just be patient and work on it a little every day). These practices and videos will help you get started the right way.

 

I've not come across anything as authentic being taught in public. But I'm sure there are others - I just don't know them. (Avoid Mantak Chia, anything by the Healing Tao organisation or any system with a heavy emphasis on visualisation - but that's just my opinion)

 

 

 

 

 

I see. Thanks for the links, and all the insight. I really appreciate you taking the time out to help :) 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dev said:

 

So i did a bit of research into finding and activating the lower dantien, and from what i have understood: one must enter a deep state of meditation, a trance like state (delta) and then focus one's attention on the area of the dantien, and keep an eye out for any sensations or feelings? That each person will feel their dantien in a different way, with a different sensation? So for example warmth, or tingles, or electric feel, or something similar? Am i missing anything?

 

Yes several things

 

The whole deep trance thing ...its not necessary. There are far more accessible ways to go about this

 

Everything freeform posted is really good and potent in fact. You do not need "delta" states or any other western terms projected onto eastern practices by certain groups, who believe they have the answer to all of these things but misunderstand many of the mechanics and terms used

 

Consider joining Damos academy....it is a most worthwhile investment

Edited by Shadow_self
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On 19/08/2021 at 11:54 AM, freeform said:


Pre-heaven is translated in all sorts of ways - primordial, prenatal etc.

 

Its the Qi that exists beyond this physical incarnation. It was there before you were born.

 

Its the process by which your spirit differentiates from Dao…

 

Post heaven Qi is what animates your body mind here in this physical form along with all the life processes - though there’s a pre-heaven ‘spark’ behind it.

 

When you die your post-heaven Qi ceases, but your pre-heaven Qi is still there and will guide ‘you’ through the process of transmigration.

 

So I've started concentrating on my LDT area while I'm meditating, and I've noticed that my hands and feet get extremely warm when i do this. It's weird because they are normally almost always cold. I meditate in half-lotus. I've also noticed that it only happens when i concentrate on my LDT? What does this mean?

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13 hours ago, Dev said:

I've noticed that my hands and feet get extremely warm when i do this.


I would guess that you’re focusing on a point known as Qi Hai which is at the level of the Dantien but on the surface of the body.

 

This point will mobilise Qi - and if you normally have cold extremities, it’ll balance that and make them warm. It will likely create a feeling of vitality for a short period.

 

However this isn’t the Dantien - it’s like an acupuncture point. Over time focusing there, you will create stagnation and an imbalance in your system.

 

13 hours ago, Dev said:

So I've started concentrating on my LDT area while I'm meditating


I’d strongly suggest following a structured system with proper methods (like the ones I posted). Doing your own thing won’t get you very far to be honest - and potentially cause issues over time.

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45 minutes ago, freeform said:


I would guess that you’re focusing on a point known as Qi Hai which is at the level of the Dantien but on the surface of the body.

 

This point will mobilise Qi - and if you normally have cold extremities, it’ll balance that and make them warm. It will likely create a feeling of vitality for a short period.

 

However this isn’t the Dantien - it’s like an acupuncture point. Over time focusing there, you will create stagnation and an imbalance in your system.

 


I’d strongly suggest following a structured system with proper methods (like the ones I posted). Doing your own thing won’t get you very far to be honest - and potentially cause issues over time.

 

I see. I hadn't got the time to properly watch those videos yet, so I will reserve focusing on anything until after i watch them. I read that in mo pai one should focus on cultivating the dantien, but also do postures such as horse stance to circulate the chi so that the dantien doesn't harden prematurely. Could focusing on this point be a substitute for the horse stance? Not that I mind horse stance, just interested

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

I read that in mo pai one should focus on cultivating the dantien, but also do postures such as horse stance to circulate the chi so that the dantien doesn't harden prematurely. Could focusing on this point be a substitute for the horse stance? Not that I mind horse stance, just interested

 

I think you'd be well advised  to forget about Mo Pai....too much disinformation, closed lineage...and a raft of false teachings...Moreover... much of the same teachings are available elsewhere.

 

Take the advice @freeform is giving you. Seriously.

 

Damo Mitchell absolutely knows what he is talking about...his knowledge is above and beyond anything you'll find in the public domain...including anything by Kostas, Jim, or whatever other people are pushing Mo Pai as an open system

Edited by Shadow_self
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I think you'd be well advised  to forget about Mo Pai....too much disinformation, closed lineage...and a raft of false teachings...Moreover... much of the same teachings are available elsewhere.

 

Take the advice @freeform is giving you. Seriously.

 

Damo Mitchell absolutely knows what he is talking about...his knowledge is above and beyond anything you'll find in the public domain...including anything by Kostas, Jim, or whatever other people are pushing Mo Pai as an open system

 

Trust me, I'm not trying to get initiated into Mo Pai..:lol: it's just my line of reference because kostas book was what opened my eyes to nei'kung. The reason that i was asking was because a lot of traditions have similarities. My plan is pretty much to exclusively cultivate my dantien as much as possible until a later point in my life when i can travel and find a proper teacher somewhere, and then begin doing more complex things with my chi. I don't have my eyes on any specific tradition, the universe will take me where it takes me. Right now I'm just interested in learning more about dantien cultivation

 

Edit: and I don't want to harden my dantien prematurely as kosta suggested, just taking precuations

Edited by Dev

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15 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Trust me, I'm not trying to get initiated into Mo Pai..:lol: it's just my line of reference because kostas book was what opened my eyes to nei'kung. The reason that i was asking was because a lot of traditions have similarities. My plan is pretty much to exclusively cultivate my dantien as much as possible until a later point in my life when i can travel and find a proper teacher somewhere, and then begin doing more complex things with my chi. I don't have my eyes on any specific tradition, the universe will take me where it takes me. Right now I'm just interested in learning more about dantien cultivation

 

Edit: and I don't want to harden my dantien prematurely as kosta suggested, just taking precuations

 

The Magus of Java is not as clear cut and accurate as people like to believe....it is not a good reference manual for anything...a nice story perhaps, great to expose John Chang.....but that's where it ends imo..too many misunderstandings, speculations, and unfounded assumptions.

 

If you want accurate instruction on Dantien cultivation, Damos academy offers this, and he also has an intensive course on Dan Tian Gong for students of the school...Alternatively....there is another gentleman on this website offering a course on Dan Tian cultivation....you could always take that....

 

I am familiar with Damos methods and can confirm...they are as authentic as it comes

 

In other words...there's a teacher a click of a mouse away. You don't need to travel anywhere right now to get accurate, authentic instructions, methods, and most importantly, a system that works

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13 minutes ago, Dev said:

My plan is pretty much to exclusively cultivate my dantien as much as possible


The videos above will do that. 
 

What’s most interesting to me is when people discover that this stuff really ‘works’.

 

It can be surprising at first. It works and it’s strong - and it’s not all hyperbole.

 

But what’s important is that since it works, it means it can also work in a way that you really don’t want it to.

 

Its very easy to make mistakes with stuff that works. 
 

Ive made this error too - trying to improvise and ‘improve’ things and trying to find my own way through. It slowed me down and created problems that took months and years of hard work to reverse.

 

I guess this might be a necessary learning experience for some (myself included). But I have seen people damage themselves to the point where it becomes impossible to proceed on the path.

 

If you’re drawn to experiment, then by all means do so - but I suggest to be super cautious and realise that you’ll probably have to undo all of it at some point to progress. 

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