Sign in to follow this  
Apech

Cos we all love Gobekli Tepe

Recommended Posts

Nungali ... I know it's Sweatman but just give it a chance ... ok?

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:D

 

I dont have a problem with it at all ...  he is just reporting on new findings and ideas  ( except for the last minute ) .

 

I often dont think we get the full story.  What ?  ... people involved in the dig thought all those square buildings, being built on top of the ruins of others ... in layers where temples too ?    Hundreds of temples for groups of nomads that  only hunted ?   I often wonder about what is' presented to us '   compared to what people in the field think .

 

Temples    ...   temples everywhere  !

 

Spoiler

6tvxk.jpg

 

 

 

The pop idea seems to be  that agriculture developed everywhere the same as it did in the Fertile Crescent . . .  or , developed how we think it did there .    In this regard the situation in Australia  is interesting  .... hunters and gatherers ... who also did some agriculture and, in places, lived in stone hut  ' villages' .

 

or at Orkney ... where at a time before the  building of Stonehenge, they not only had massive gatherings and feasts but the evidence ( feast left overs - bones etc ) shows, not only the amazing amount of cattle consumed , but the where all from one herd .

 

s Sweatman pointed out  .... its  still  question after question after question  .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

:D

 

I dont have a problem with it at all ...  he is just reporting on new findings and ideas  ( except for the last minute ) .

 

I often dont think we get the full story.  What ?  ... people involved in the dig thought all those square buildings, being built on top of the ruins of others ... in layers where temples too ?    Hundreds of temples for groups of nomads that  only hunted ?   I often wonder about what is' presented to us '   compared to what people in the field think .

 

Temples    ...   temples everywhere  !

 

  Reveal hidden contents

6tvxk.jpg

 

 

 

The pop idea seems to be  that agriculture developed everywhere the same as it did in the Fertile Crescent . . .  or , developed how we think it did there .    In this regard the situation in Australia  is interesting  .... hunters and gatherers ... who also did some agriculture and, in places, lived in stone hut  ' villages' .

 

or at Orkney ... where at a time before the  building of Stonehenge, they not only had massive gatherings and feasts but the evidence ( feast left overs - bones etc ) shows, not only the amazing amount of cattle consumed , but the where all from one herd .

 

s Sweatman pointed out  .... its  still  question after question after question  .

 

 

I think it is naive to think that there is a single reason for people gathering in communities ... agriculture or religion etc.  Maybe people just felt more safe and secure when they banded together ... and the other things came after.  Why couldn't psychology be the determining factor?  ie.  agriculture took off because of the necessities of living together?  religion became encoded for the same reason ... they developed ways to bind themselves together and enforce social rules?

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this postulation interesting -  it has to do with the large number of animals available for feasting at such sites ( due to the amount of remains found ) , this lead some to speculate that animal husbandry and farming may have started earlier than thought   ( " G.T. 're writes history !! "  )   .... but maybe not - research is still underway  :

 

By 'FLK'

 

" On a fluke, I learned something new today. When I first learned about the site at Gobekli Tepe some years ago, one of the main points in the article I was reading discussed the phenomenal amount of gazelle bones found at the site. My general impression at the time was something like: "Yeah, those big stone structures are neat, but someone needs to seriously examine the surrounding landscape for some sort of stone lanes to capture migratory game animals." The idea being that before one goes off writing new grand theories on how the site changes everything (as everybody seemed to be doing), one ought to at least try to figure out how the site fit within the landscape in order to truly understand the situation.

Today, completely by accident, I discovered that such structures actually do exist within that region. In an old archaeology textbook of mine I found a case study of a site called Abu Hureyra in the Euphrates valley in northern Syria, which was roughly contemporary to Gobekli Tepe in its span of occupation. It too had an assemblage of animal remains comparable to that at Gobekli Tepe—approximately 80% gazelles. The researchers of that site hypothesized an association with regional features referred to as "desert kites," stone structures consisting of angled lanes for funneling game animals into stone corrals where the animals would be slaughtered. They hypothesized some potential migratory routes for gazelles through Syria and Jordan based on the distribution of such structures. While these researchers have postulated a regional association between the site and desert kites to the south, one of the sources linked below (Desert Kites, a New Appraisal) notes that no desert kites have been identified in the immediate area around Abu Hureyra.

One of the intriguing things about desert kites and other such game capturing corrals is that it seems natural to infer that the construction and use of these features would have played some role in the eventual domestication of various livestock species. Some researchers have suggested that faunal remains at some sites indicating the culling of primarily male animals might indicate management practices relevant to the question of domestication. But apparently there could be natural explanations, and the question remains disputed.

Other animal bones at Abu Hureyra included sheep and goats making up about 10% of the faunal assemblage. It is unknown whether they were wild or domestic. However, unlike gazelles which were exploited seasonally, sheep and goat appear to have been slaughtered throughout the year, a pattern which might imply possible domestication. In the latter part of the site's occupancy, there was an abrupt shift in which the use of sheep and goats increased to about 80%, and gazelles decreased to about 20%. The researchers speculated that overkill of gazelles may have led to declining populations and disruption of migratory patterns.

I would really love to find some article discussing whether any of these desert kite structures are to be found in the vicinity of Gobekli Tepe, and whether any direct connection could be made among sites at a regional level. The article discussing Gazelle migration patterns below concludes that Gobekli Tepe might have had a catchment area of approximately a 10 km radius. If you know of any easily accessible articles that discuss this aspect, I'd be happy if you might post a link to them.


This article discusses migration patterns for different gazelle species in the region, and evidence for several communities engaging in seasonal harvests at different times of the year.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263242061_Gazelle_behaviour_and_human_presence_at_early_Neolithic_Gobekli_Tepe_south-east_Anatolia

This article discusses desert kites as a feature, and has a really nice map showing their distribution throughout the Arabian peninsula, the Levant, the Caucasus, and beyond the Caspian. It discusses the problems and issues with classifying and dating these features.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283813796_Desert_kites_in_Jordan_-_a_new_appraisal

This is a general article on desert kites in Uzbekistan. It has a nice video showing some in the region, and then veers off into modern issues of environmental degradation related to decimated steppe antelope species. The video is really interesting in that it gives an impressive idea of the scale of these constructions. It makes one wonder whether the masonry skills involved, and the necessary community effort in construction wouldn't also have relevance when it comes to discussing what would be necessary in order to build a site such as Gobekli Tepe.
Giant ‘Arrows’ Seen From Space Point to a Vanished World
"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this