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Im happy to have found a place with good info, experience, and a community about The Tao. Im excited to learn from all you.

For this I want to share two poems From Zhuang tzu:



Chuang Tzu with his bamboo pole  
Was fishing in Pu river.  
The Prince of Chu  
Sent two vice-chancellors  
With a fonnal document:  
"We hereby appoint you  
Prime Minister."  
Chuang Tzu held his bamboo pole.  
Still watching Pu river,  
He said:  
"I am told there is a sacred tortoise,  
Offered and canonized  
Three thousand years ago,  
Venerated by the prince,  
Wrapped in silk,  
In a precious shrine  
On an altar  
In the Temple.  
"What do you think:  
Is it better to give up one's life  
And leave a sacred shell  
As an object of cult  
In a cloud of incense  
Three thousand years,

Or better to live  
As a plain turtle  
Dragging its tail in the mud?"  
"For the turtle," said the Vice-Chancellor,  
"Better to live  
And drag its tail in the mud!"  
"Go home!" said Chuang Tzu.  
"Leave me here  
To drag my tail in the mud!"



I know about letting the world alone, not interfering. I do  
not know about running things. Letting things alone: so that  
men will not blow their nature out of shape! Not interfering,  
so that men will not be changed into something they are not!  
When men do not get twisted and maimed beyond recogni-
tion, when they are allowed to live-the purpose of govern-
ment is achieved.  
Too much pleasure? Yang has too much influence. Too  
much suffering? Yin has too much influence. When one of  
these outweighs the other, it is as if the seasons came at the  
wrong times. The balance of cold and heat is destroyed; the  
body of man suffers.  
Too much happiness, too much unhappiness, out of due  
time, men are thrown off balance. What will they do next?  
Thought runs wild. No control. They start everything, finish  
nothing. Here competition begins, here the idea of excellence  
is born, and robbers appear in the world.  
Now the whole world is not enough reward for the "good,"  
nor enough punishment for the "wicked." Since now the  
world itself is not big enough for reward or punishment. From  
the time of the Three Dynasties men have been running in all  
directions. How can they find time to be human?  
You train your eye and your vision lusts after color. You  
train your ear, and you long for delightful sound. You de-
light in doing good, and your natural kindness is blown out  
of shape. You delight in righteousness, and you become  
righteous beyond all reason. You overdo liturgy, and you

tum into a ham actor. Overdo your love of music, and you  
play corn. Love of wisdom leads to wise contriving. Love of  
knowledge leads to faultfinding. If men would stay as they  
really are, taking or leaving these eight delights would make  
no difference. But if they will not rest in their right state, the  
eight delights develop like malignant tumors. The world falls  
into confusion. Since men honor these delights, and lust after  
them, the world has gone stone-blind. 

When the delight is over, they still will not let go of it:  
they surround its memory with ritual worship, they fall on  
their knees to talk about it, play music and sing, fast and  
discipline themselves in honor of the eight delights. When the  
delights become a religion, how can you control them?  
The wise man, then, when he must govern, knows how  
to do nothing. Letting things alone, he rests in his original  
nature. He who will govern will respect the governed no  
more than he respects himself. If he loves his own person  
enough to let it rest in its original truth, he will govern others  
without hurting them. Let him keep the deep drives in his  
own guts from going into action. Let him keep still, not look-
ing, not hearing. Let him sit like a corpse, with the dragon  
power alive all around him. In complete silence, his voice  
will be like thunder. His movements will be invisible, like  
those of a spirit, but the powers of heaven will go with them.  
Unconcerned, doing nothing, he will see all things grow ripe  
around him. Where will he find time to govern?


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Hello Heyoka44,


Welcome to the bums; your account is approved.


You will find three topics pinned at the top of this sub forum regarding rules and expectations; if you haven’t already done so, please make sure you’ve read them.


warm regards,


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