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sl23

The Way

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Hi, I sorta came here by accident. I've been looking into Shifu Yan Lei's teachings the entire day. Somehow I ended up here! :lol:

 

I started my journey 28 years ago at age 18. Primarily with selfish intent as I was introduced to various occult teachings. But was also shown Shaolin and Yoga.

I've never been the type with desire to hurt others, only to better myself. As such, the occult got left behind for the loftier purpose of self development. I fell in love with Shaolin, but personal issues prevented me from pursuing the life I so longed for.

 

Yoga became my path, always with a longing for Martial Arts, although only Shaolin and recent years Tai-Chi.

I admit I'm not a great studier. But consider myself fairly intelligent, maybe not as much as some of the people here though!

 

Anyway, I've longed to study Qi Gong for almost as long as I can remember. Thing is, how do you know if a teacher is authentic? That always put me off training with someone. There seem to be more and more authentic teachers springing up on the internet, whether it's a front is another matter.

 

Yoga is quite simplistic to follow compared to many forms of Kung Fu or Qi Gong. For a start, Yoga is not hidden.Most martial practices are kept secret for various reasons.

 

One thing that I could never understand about Tai-Chi and Qi Gong is that there are so many systems that is is confusing which practices belong to which system. Because no system is fully explained you have to grab bits from each to fill in the gaps. Whether using the internet or books as source, no-one has made anything like BKS Iyengars book Light on Yoga.

 

Everything is explained from basic breath control to each posture and it's effects on the body. There's even a six year course to follow should you be dedicated enough! That is a real teacher. Today everyone is in it for the money so they milk every bit of information. Supply part of a technique in one book or DVD, then next year release another with some bits that were missing from the previous.

 

Yan Lei's material seems condense and to the point, but upon reading or watching, there are questions unanswered. A good teacher leaves no questions. Iyengar left none! That one book could take you to an advanced level of Yoga, Light on Pranayama even further.

 

My point however, which is getting lost, is that there is simply no structure to any of the teachings, unless you can interface directly with a teacher regularly, but that's usually at great expense. Something I can't afford. I don't suppose anyone can enlighten me by answering some questions please?

 

1. What is the real goal of Qi Gong/Tai-Chi? Enlightenment? What exactly is enlightenment? Nobody knows. If there are those that know, you wouldn't understand. As was explained in a funny story I read on this site just now about Socrates and Plato.

So, how do you know?

 

2. As there's no complete, publicly available, known structure to any of the systems of Tai-Chi or Qi Gong, or none that I've come across, how the hell do you get into something without knowing where it leads? I've read that certain Qi Gong practices if mixed can actually have adverse effects or cancel each other out. So you can't just start with a pick n mix attitude. How can you follow a system if there's no definitive goal? Health is a good goal, but for me, I want more than that. It may seem strange, but I've never felt like I belong here. I participate because I have to. Just as those incarcerated are forced to participate in activities they have no interest in. Either that or suffer from total boredom, depression and loneliness.

 

I am blessed to have never been ill, colds and such but that's it. If you knew my problems, you'd be shocked at how it's even possible! But now I've engaged for many years in a life I never wanted, have a family that I love, even though I find it hard to reciprocate due to my desires for something more. That life has ended though I have three loving children to show for it, I am back at the door of philosophy to find answers. Everything in life for me is second best as I cannot do that which I only ever had a passion for, to find answers, to practice... something. My main interest is with Yoga and Tai-Chi/QiGong, but the more I read about chinese arts the more confused I get!

 

3. For god sake can someone tell me, is the earth flat, or not??? :lol: I find it highly amusing that those that believe it flat are so undeniably positive about something without a shred of proof! Only people like that are religionists, faith works wonders eh?

 

Sorry for the long post, just thought I'd ask the questions even if I appear stupid! Got to a point where I don't care anymore. Just want to find answers!

 

Thanks for reading, if you did! :lol:

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Hello, sl23, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome sl23,

 

To answer your question, I don't think the world is flat.  I've never personally seen it from space though, so there is a chance it is indeed, flat.  But I would say, all signs point to spherical. 

 

As to your other questions - there are many threads and discussions about qigong and the authenticity of things.  I'd say it's a mixture of research and intuition regarding a style or teacher.  Enjoy!

 

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

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Flat earth, in my opinion, is a deliberate attempt at shattering a paradigm in favor of establishing faith-based willpower. The geometrical interpretation of spacetime can be bent into lots of different equally valid models. The one that fits into classical physics is of course to admit anything other than spherical bodies is bullshit, and I do believe that Buzz Aldrin is not making stuff up to get paid off. So anyway... welcome to the site!!

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Thanks for your replies. The flat earth thing was more in jest with a twinkle of seriousness to it :wacko:

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The humans for the most part are imitating monkeys.   So what happens is that one of them is able to "realise truth" within himself, and 5 minutes later he is surrounded by many monkey people who imitate and speak in loud voices and its' a great game.   Then they begin "teaching" and they have no idea of the difference between imitation and reality.   

 

This creates a world of exceptional corruption and confusion.

 

The underlying cause is that human-monkey when he looks in the mirror does not really understand who he is, he sometimes has a feeling but not really.   A human is animal++, he is not really conscious but also not really animal.   And the world is a consequence of this bad situation.

 

So, what can be done, if we know this territory what can we do that might be useful ?

 

One thing is to read the life journeys of people.   Not their teaching, but their journey.   For instance of Buddha, what was he thinking and how did he choose at any point.   Or Jesus, his story, what was actually happening, what was he actually doing ?   People read and talk .... but they don't.   They only think they read.

 

Yan Lei a strong man and he lacks intellectual aspect, but a nice man.

 

Be aware of your own insincerity.

 

1. Are you honest about your pain ?   Maybe you need to be honest about how happy you are.
2. Sit in front of a mirror, try to understand what there is to understand

3. Do qigong, choose something you like, work well and patiently at it, step by step, learn how to do it

4. Humans are physical-emotional-intellectual-spiritual, all needs a daily workout, but not a stupid mind-numbing workout, great care must be take in selecting activities and then do with great joy and spirit

 

Is the Earth flat ?  It seems very unlikely as all objects you see in space are round.   However it is very good to challenge yourself to prove from your own experience what you can prove from taking a walk.   What do you see, and what can you deduce.  It is very useful but no need to get carried away.

 

What is it that is wrong with your life, or what would you like, what problems do you feel and so on.   Specific problems have specific answers.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, rideforever said:

This creates a world of exceptional corruption and confusion.

You got that right :lol:

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39 minutes ago, rideforever said:

1. Are you honest about your pain ?   Maybe you need to be honest about how happy you are

I have never been happy since this path was shown to me. That is my truth. It has been one mass of confusion with no answers!

2. Sit in front of a mirror, try to understand what there is to understand

Good advice. But you only get so far until you need guidance.

3. Do qigong, choose something you like, work well and patiently at it, step by step, learn how to do it

Again, good advice, which I have wanted to do for many years. My problem is that should I take up Qi Gong, where does it lead? Am I going to get a complete system from my chosen teacher? If not, you're stuck halfway through without possibility of progression.

4. Humans are physical-emotional-intellectual-spiritual, all needs a daily workout, but not a stupid mind-numbing workout, great care must be take in selecting activities and then do with great joy and spirit

That's why I chose Shaolin and only Shaolin as my source of practice. But in the early years there was next to no info on this. But since finding many years ago that Shaolin became nothing more than a business practice, I changed direction to Tai Chi. Yoga is an amazing practice. Maybe superior to Tai Chi/Qi Gong, but it doesn't have my passion the way TC/QG does.

 

Is the Earth flat ?  It seems very unlikely as all objects you see in space are round.   However it is very good to challenge yourself to prove from your own experience what you can prove from taking a walk.   What do you see, and what can you deduce.  It is very useful but no need to get carried away.

Tell that to a flat earther and they'll say it's just the projection onto the dome covering the flat plane we live in! haha.

 

What is it that is wrong with your life, or what would you like, what problems do you feel and so on.   Specific problems have specific answers.

Everything! I couldn't state it all here. But I can describe only symptoms of certain things as the real source of the problem is unknown.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't know how to separate each quote so I included my reply and bolded the text.

Thanks for your reply

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Which Shaolin practices do you do have you done, how much have you done ?   
Likewise with taichi /qigong ?

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12 hours ago, sl23 said:

Because no system is fully explained you have to grab bits from each to fill in the gaps. Whether using the internet or books as source, no-one has made anything like BKS Iyengars book Light on Yoga.

 

Having done MA for many years, (both Kenpo, muay thai in Thailand, Jujitsu, (not the MMA kind but traditional) , Pencak Silat, american boxing, Tai Chi, etc,  I can tell you that every martial art, especially tai chi needs to be taught in person by someone who really knows the art.  The problem with tai chi in the west, is that it is more of a meditative health focused art, and many fake teachers take it up in order to make money, because no one will ever ask them to meet them on the mat and show them what they got.  so western tai chi is mostly crap. but i have met a few real tai chi teachers who could toss me around the room and into walls without me feeling there push, but just being accelerated when they touch.  if you are trying to learn from books and videos,  this is not good or bad, you might get something out of it, but the connection, body structure, movement, centering, grounding through earth paths, is not easily explained, and one needs a good teacher to correct your form.  same thing for just about any other martial art, but tai chi is so subtle, and a lot of the movement is hidden.  My best experience is with Chen tai chi, which I did after learning short yang form, and 108 movement long yang or traditional yang forms. 

 

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I learned Shaolin Tiger Crane from a teacher based in Essex, UK. Found this very difficult despite my good level of health and fitness at the time. Couple years experience. Funny thing is, I learnt more from my few weeks of Karate wrt Qi than I did with Shaolin school! Though I never knew it at the time!

 

Tai Chi only practiced for few months due to the teacher being more interested in ripping me off than having good morals! Not many teachers near me.

 

Qi Gong I have tried to learn solo but hit walls with structure of practice, where the goal lies if you see what I mean.

There's a thousand different parts of hundreds of systems, some of which are incompatible. Which parts belong to which systems, which order are they to be practiced, ie if it were Karate, there would be grades, as no such thing appears to exist in the world of Kung Fu it's all very vague as to how to progress.

 

When I practice Qi Gong I don't feel much, but I feel something. There's one exercise I just started messing about doing, maybe I saw something similar in a film, who knows, but it has a very profound effect! More so than anything I've tried. Don't even think it's a real Qi Gong exercise! :lol: But when I do it, I feel Qi and after, I find I'm so relaxed that punches have far more power and control. Weird!

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

The problem with tai chi in the west, is that it is more of a meditative health focused art, and many fake teachers take it up in order to make money, because no one will ever ask them to meet them on the mat and show them what they got.  so western tai chi is mostly crap. but i have met a few real tai chi teachers who could toss me around the room and into walls without me feeling there push, but just being accelerated when they touch.  if you are trying to learn from books and videos,  this is not good or bad, you might get something out of it, but the connection, body structure, movement, centering, grounding through earth paths, is not easily explained, and one needs a good teacher to correct your form.

 

Wow, thanks for the explanation.

I agree, that's why I have been so put off by western teachers! Even Mantak Chia, Yang Jwing Ming and Erle Montaigue has some backlash, genuine or not I don't know. But ipossible to learn from those guys so I'm left with little choice. :(

 

Btw, may I ask, what exactly do you mean by ' a lot of the movement is hidden?'

You mean to do with visualising Chi? Breath control? Or actual physical movements?

 

Thanks

Edited by sl23

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26 minutes ago, sl23 said:

may I ask, what exactly do you mean by ' a lot of the movement is hidden

In many traditional forms like watching cheng man ching tai chi which is a modified short version of traditional 108 movement yang tai chi, he is wearing very loose clothes , which hide not only his rooting to the earth, but the way energy is transferred from the ground through the middle of the foot, (the bubbling well) up through the legs, into hips, waist, and very importantly through the shoulders, (shoulders are very difficult to connect)  , and then into the hands.  even with open teachers who do not try to hide anything , the internal movements are just that, internal. that does not mean that they are not also physical, because in the end, it is all one thing, but the body structure, your alignment, your posture has to be centered and correct for the energy to transfer.  it takes years. If one wants to really use tai chi in the real world, in self defense or in good applied push hands. most folks with a good teacher can't use tai chi for at least the first 10 years, unless they live next or with the teacher 24/7 and work at it 6 or more hours a day.

My suggestion is to start with some good jujitsu, or maybe more external gung fu, in the end they all arrive at the same place, only from a different starting position.  what that means, is that one can start with a "hard style" karate, or gung fu, or judo or jujitsu, and in several years become more internal, more relaxed , being able to express chi/ki.  On the other hand, one can start in one of the "soft" internal arts, starting out relaxed, and over the years become physically more capable,  stronger, being able to express chi/ki. most of it depends on your own personality, what you gravitate to, and your own physical make up. that is one of the reasons that there are so many different gung fu forms in china.  people are different, but it all ends up at the same place if you stick with it. good luck

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I see, so really it's not even possible to learn internal styles from books? At least not effectively. I've never been interested in fighting, but would like to learn all aspects of Tai Chi. I doubt I ever will though unless from a book! Or maybe videos.

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