Coursera and free online courses

[ralis]

Coursera is a California company offering free online education in partnership with several state university systems. Credit and noncredit courses are being offered.

 

There are some who may consider this the wave of the future but given the nature of this particular format, very little peer interaction will take place, let alone personal contact with a professor. I see this as the continual decline in quality education; poor to nonexistent critical thinking, below average math and science skills. What about the liberal arts?

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014495838

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/education/universities-team-with-online-course-provider.html?_r=0

[Flolfolil]

Uhh, pardon me, but i was just doing coursera and there was plenty of peer interaction on the forums, and you can even ask the professors questions. The questions are then answered in the next video, at least for some of the courses i took

 

some people need to be able to learn at their own pace, or else they wont learn at all

Edited May 30, 2013 by Flolfolil

[ralis]

Here is a great example of the lack of critical thinking skills, piss poor education in older adults and patriarchal attitudes. These men know very little about science.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/29/fox-contributor-liberals-who-reject-that-men-should-dominate-women-are-anti-science/

 

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/29/fox-figures-rise-in-female-breadwinners-is-a-si/194263

 

[ralis]

Uhh, pardon me, but i was just doing coursera and there was plenty of peer interaction on the forums, and you can even ask the professors questions. The questions are then answered in the next video, at least for some of the courses i took

 

some people need to be able to learn at their own pace, or else they wont learn at all

 

Live classroom interaction among peers on a daily basis is different than discussions on a forum. What I am talking about are relationships with others face to face and being able to confront and debate issues spontaneously. Not hiding behind a keyboard and monitor which makes one anonymous.

[Flolfolil]

Ohhhh, so this thread isn't actually a critique of Coursera, but another one of your whining about society threads! Okay, i completely understand now. But you didn't have to shit all over a perfectly good tool for learning. i learned lots of good stuff from that website. i am definitely not saying it should replace regular school, but come on dude! Not everything has to be all or nothing.

 

Intro to philosophy was really cool, because it started super basic but then people flooded the forums with smart spiritual questions so it kinda raised the bar as far as things the teacher had to talk about afterwards.

[zerostao]

one university i am considering for grad school is pacifica, they have a low residency option,

where students gather up once a month and/or quarterly, but this is in a cohort system, where students

will have to interact with each other along with the professors intensively.

the jung and joeseph campbell emphasis is what attracted me, plus they have very unique offerings.

i do agree that this type of format is not suitable for all students. but for myself, it could work well.

 

http://www.pacifica.edu/

[ralis]

Ohhhh, so this thread isn't actually a critique of Coursera, but another one of your whining about society threads! Okay, i completely understand now. But you didn't have to shit all over a perfectly good tool for learning. i learned lots of good stuff from that website. i am definitely not saying it should replace regular school, but come on dude! Not everything has to be all or nothing.

 

Intro to philosophy was really cool, because it started super basic but then people flooded the forums with smart spiritual questions so it kinda raised the bar as far as things the teacher had to talk about afterwards.

 

It is a critique of online education including Coursera. In general, given the lack of quality education in this society, which was my point in the last post. Many will not understand the difference in quality live education as opposed to online classes. What Coursera may provide is a refresher for college graduates or one's investigating higher learning opportunities which such courses would give a brief overview.

 

What most don't realize is that society is 'we' not 'I'. The bullshit education system that pervades our culture is not separate but an expression of what we have become as a society.

Edited May 30, 2013 by ralis

[Flolfolil]

you don't have to convince me that society sucks, i am aware of it. you don't have to convince yourself, because you seem to know already. you don't have to convince people that agree with you, because they know already.

 

So who are you trying to convince? People that don't agree that society sucks? Good luck with that.

 

Enjoy your circle-jerk thread

[Sloppy Zhang]

I graduated last year from a liberal arts university.

 

In person interaction is overrated.

 

Professors were so desperate to dredge up "student interaction", and for the most part, students just wanted the grade, to get the degree, to get the job, to get the money.

 

I had professors tell me that while they appreciated my insights and ideas given in class, I should stop talking so other people can talk.

 

Then, after 2 minutes of awkward silence, the professor would ask for my input.

 

Yeah.

 

I don't really know if you can "teach" critical thinking. But most of the people I met in my well respected liberal arts college were dopes.

 

 

Sources of the best discussion came from people with a "non-traditional" background. Homeschooled kids, students raised abroad, and older men and women who were returning to either finish a degree, get a degree, or get another degree.

 

My school tried to create "connection" classes to "bridge the gap" between classes form multiple disciplines, to show that courses were "connected."

 

Then some dumb frat kid would say "we talked about this in my political science class freshman year" and the professor would praise them for "making connections."

 

Please.

[ralis]

I graduated last year from a liberal arts university.

 

In person interaction is overrated.

 

Professors were so desperate to dredge up "student interaction", and for the most part, students just wanted the grade, to get the degree, to get the job, to get the money.

 

I had professors tell me that while they appreciated my insights and ideas given in class, I should stop talking so other people can talk.

 

Then, after 2 minutes of awkward silence, the professor would ask for my input.

 

Yeah.

 

I don't really know if you can "teach" critical thinking. But most of the people I met in my well respected liberal arts college were dopes.

 

 

Sources of the best discussion came from people with a "non-traditional" background. Homeschooled kids, students raised abroad, and older men and women who were returning to either finish a degree, get a degree, or get another degree.

 

My school tried to create "connection" classes to "bridge the gap" between classes form multiple disciplines, to show that courses were "connected."

 

Then some dumb frat kid would say "we talked about this in my political science class freshman year" and the professor would praise them for "making connections."

 

Please.

Overrated among some but not all. I had many classes where group projects were required. Most of my peers valued the interaction. Of course there are always persons who don't care to discuss and critique.

 

You may be correct that critical thinking skills are difficult to teach. If one graduates without learning to think critically, that would be a waste of an education.

[Flolfolil]

Caring or not caring about learning is a very conscious choice that every person makes. If someone cares, they will strive to learn well and will most likely succeed. If someone doesn't care, they will not care no matter how good the education, school, social interaction, or rewards for learning are.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Overrated among some but not all. I had many classes where group projects were required. Most of my peers valued the interaction. Of course there are always persons who don't care to discuss and critique.

 

You may be correct that critical thinking skills are difficult to teach. If one graduates without learning to think critically, that would be a waste of an education.

 

We had plenty of projects (and even some papers) we had to complete as a group. They were a chore.

 

9 times out of 10 the other members of the group had such a shallow and dictionary definition like understanding of the writer or concept we were critiquing that I just did the whole damn paper myself.

 

Rarely did a group member actually have something actually insightful to contribute, and as I mentioned above, they were from a non-traditional upbringing or background.

 

Some people have a natural aptitude for making connections and thinking critically, and I found them across many concentrations of study (whether liberal arts fields or the STEM fields).

 

Beyond that, I think funneling kids through these institutions is an exercise in futility. For the most part they are coming out on the other end with a degree they got by regurgitating the critique they heard from a professor in class, or they inversed the critique they head in class. Throw in some cherry picked quotes from some papers you skimmed so you can meet the minimum source requirements, then boom, B- liberal arts degree.

 

Much better to go to either a trade school or get a degree with some practical applications (STEM fields and any business degree that involves numbers, like accounting or finance). At least the money will actually be put to gaining skills you can actually use to get a job that you couldn't have gotten without that degree. Get some life experiences, get some goddamn perspective, and if you want to think critically, come back.

 

Ralis I tihnk you're very sharp, and I also get the impression that you're a bit older. My parents sounded similar to you, thinking that college was this place of exchanging ideas and thinking critically and growing. I was very disappointed by my time in college with respect to those points. I met some very sharp people (mostly professors) in my field of study, but if I had to do it again, I'd get a practical degree and forget pursuing a degree where I discuss topics critically. Because aside from the dialogue coming from myself and a scant view others, there wasn't much TRULY critical thought.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tsunami_MAPUA]

I love Coursera, but sometimes you can't stand the boring voice of some professors. GRRR

[zerostao]

sz , certainly not a ringing endorsement for the school that you attended.

[Sloppy Zhang]

sz , certainly not a ringing endorsement for the school that you attended.

 

I'm very much over formalized education institutions. They're more about arbitrary hoops that people learn to jump through to get a degree. Now they might be a very intricate series of hoops. But they're still a routine.

 

I guess we can draw a parallel to martial arts forms. Some people can learn and perform a very intricate set of techniques. Even two man sets! In Hollywood we've seen actors choreograph a scene with dozens of "opponents." They LOOK like they're pretty good fighters, huh?

 

But put them in an unrehearsed fight against 8 or more opponents? Hm, suddenly not such good fighters.

 

Same with what I've seen go into and come out of formalized education institutions. They have learned to LOOK like they can think critically and "outside the box," but present them with a box they have never seen before?

 

They go through the same old routines that got them success in the past, and never come up with something truly unique or insightful.

[Flolfolil]

great comparison you made there

[zerostao]

I'm very much over formalized education institutions. They're more about arbitrary hoops that people learn to jump through to get a degree. Now they might be a very intricate series of hoops. But they're still a routine.

 

I guess we can draw a parallel to martial arts forms. Some people can learn and perform a very intricate set of techniques. Even two man sets! In Hollywood we've seen actors choreograph a scene with dozens of "opponents." They LOOK like they're pretty good fighters, huh?

 

But put them in an unrehearsed fight against 8 or more opponents? Hm, suddenly not such good fighters.

 

Same with what I've seen go into and come out of formalized education institutions. They have learned to LOOK like they can think critically and "outside the box," but present them with a box they have never seen before?

 

They go through the same old routines that got them success in the past, and never come up with something truly unique or insightful.

if fighting more than 8 opponents at the same time, it will be unrehearsed (hopefully) by the attackers as well and they will mostly get in each others way. it probably isnt about the school you attended or that i attend now but rather who exactly it is attending at that time. critical thinking can be taught but not all students are gonna get it. that is why it is valued,if everyone could do it then it isnt such a big deal. still we need to teach the masses to find the few. how many folks who take physics become proficient at that? it is actually a very rare few that offer anything to society to greatly improve it. and yet we must go thru this to find the ones who do. we do hear of high school or college drop outs that do come thru in a big way from time to time, from my perspective the college experience is beneficial on many many levels. i totally relish the interaction and consider myself amazingly fortunate to participate in this.

@flo, if ya went to school maybe you make a friend or 2? you could even join a greek fraternity that provides you with friends.

some say , well that is just paying for friends haha i am happy for the ones i "paid" for.

[Sloppy Zhang]

if fighting more than 8 opponents at the same time, it will be unrehearsed (hopefully) by the attackers as well and they will mostly get in each others way. it probably isnt about the school you attended or that i attend now but rather who exactly it is attending at that time. critical thinking can be taught but not all students are gonna get it. that is why it is valued,if everyone could do it then it isnt such a big deal. still we need to teach the masses to find the few. how many folks who take physics become proficient at that? it is actually a very rare few that offer anything to society to greatly improve it. and yet we must go thru this to find the ones who do. we do hear of high school or college drop outs that do come thru in a big way from time to time, from my perspective the college experience is beneficial on many many levels. i totally relish the interaction and consider myself amazingly fortunate to participate in this.

@flo, if ya went to school maybe you make a friend or 2? you could even join a greek fraternity that provides you with friends.

some say , well that is just paying for friends haha i am happy for the ones i "paid" for.

 

My point is that if the same people go through the same school/program but are getting different results, then the deciding factor isn't the school.

 

Everyone is taught the same critical thinking program, but not all students produced are thinking critically? Maybe the program isn't what decides.

 

Not everyone in the same physics class becomes a physicist? Maybe it's not the class.

 

Some high school/college dropouts are as/more successful than grads? Deciding factor must not be the school.

 

I agree the college experience was great. Just not for education.

 

Pussy and weed?

 

Hell yeah.

 

The "real world" sucks. No tight young women ages 18-22 in such abundance anywhere except for college.