Golden Flower ,Hua tou,buddhist methods etc,which one and Why?

[Suliman]

Ive posted a message on the buddhist forum also as its equally applicable im sure

 

 

Hey Guys ive been reading through Hsuan Hua,other buddhist sutras and Hsu Yun ,therefore coming to a confusion :juggling:

im trying to understand whats going on here.

 

Hsuan Hua Talks of four stages of Dhyana and sitting practice... his first Dhyana explanation on the fact that external breathing stops and the true breathing occurs on one of his explanations yet i read not a consistent method of one practice,it seems there are many practices the masters mention.

 

There is a hua tou practice which Hsu Yun practices,at other times i read mentioning about Reciting buddhas name or counting breaths or putting mind on breath until true breathing occurs ...

So i read so many practices,so many ways and yet there seem to be pointing to something

Then at a most important point in all this is the true method of Nurturing energy with Samadhi and Hsuan Hua speaks in the same language as Liu yi Ming Taoist patriarch and Mencius

Here is his saying"

 

"""Attached to marks,

whatever you do is wrong;

But in non-activity

you fall into emptiness.

“What should I do?” you ask. It is just at this point that the

greatest difficulty arises, but if you handle it, just that is nothought.

 

 

Now he says..its at this point that the greatest difficulty arises,now liu yi ming says this exact thing is one of his texts

 

Hsuan Hua mentions the way to practice here

Practice consists of cultivating the mind and nurturing the nature. You must constantly observe your discursive thoughts to see what kind of thoughts are predominant. Are the majority of your thoughts concerning greed and desire? Do your thoughts contain more anger and rage than anything else? Does stupidity dominate your thinking? Reflect inwardly and examine yourself. If you can purify your mind of these discursive thoughts, you are having a response in your work. Whether you sit in full lotus, in half lotus, or casually, the essential thing is to get rid of discursive thoughts so that genuine wisdom can appear. As long as the false is not ended, the true will not manifest. In cultivating we work on the mind-ground. That is called the Mind Ground Dharma door: causing the mind to become pure. If you can be pure for one instant, you are on Magic Mountain in that one instant. If you can be pure at all times, you are always on Magic Mountain. Regardless of whether you recite the Buddha's name, hold mantras, keep the precepts, expound the teachings, or sit in Chan meditation, the goal is to focus the mind on a single point, to cast out the false and retain the true. At all times, look within yourself and recognize your original face(what does he mean by this?-how does one look within like he is speaking of).

 

 

That is the method to use at the initial stages of practice.

 

So my real question is :

What is the real method to bring out this true energy?

What does he mean by focus mind on single point here,because he seems to say its just a matter of sitting or calming down oneslef and reflecting inwardly so therefore

is reflecting inwardly the true method? but they seem to suggest different practices and yet not just reflecting inwardly,hmm scratched head

 

Then there is this below

 

“That hill is called Tender Peach Hill. If you have eaten there seven times you must have been here seven years. What sort of Way do you want to learn from me?”

“That depends what you teach me, master. As long as there's a whiff of Way to it, your disciple will learn it.”

“There are three hundred and sixty side-entrances to the Way, and they all lead to a True Result,” the Patriarch said. “Which branch would you like to study?”

“I will do whatever you think best, master,” replied Monkey.

“Shall I teach you the Way of Sects?” the Patriarch asked.

“What are the principles of the Sects?” said Monkey.

“Within the branch of Sects, there is Confucianism, Buddhism, Taoism, the study of the Negative and Positive, Mohism, medicine, reading scriptures and chanting the name of a Buddha. You can also summon Immortals and Sages with this branch.”

“Can you attain immortality that way?” asked Monkey.

“To try and attain immortality that way,” the Patriarch replied, “is like 'putting a pillar in the wall.'”

“Master,” Monkey said, “I'm a simple chap and I can't understand your technical jargon. What do you mean by 'putting a pillar in the wall?'”

“When a man builds a house and wants to make it strong he puts a pillar in the wall. But when the day comes for his mansion to collapse the pillar is bound to rot.”

“From what you say,” Monkey observed, “it's not eternal. No. Shan't learn it.”

“Shall I teach you the Way of Silence?” the Patriarch then asked.

“What True Result can be got from Silence?” said Monkey.

“It involves abstaining from grain, preserving one's essence, silence, inaction, meditation, abstaining from speech, eating vegetarian food, performing certain exercises when asleep or standing up, going into trances, and being walled up in total isolation.”

“Is this a way of becoming immortal?” Monkey asked.

“It's like building the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks,” the patriarch replied.

“You do go on, master,” said Sun Wukong. “I've already told you that I can't understand your technical jargon. What does 'building the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks' mean?”

“If you build the top of a kiln with sun-dried bricks they may make it look all right, but if they have not been hardened with fire and water, then they will crumble away in the first heavy rainstorm.”

“There's nothing eternal about that either, then,” replied Monkey. “No. Shan't learn that.”

“Shall I teach you the Way of Action then?” the Patriarch asked.

“What's that like?” Monkey asked.

“It involves acting and doing, extracting the Negative and building up the Positive, drawing the bow and loading the crossbow, rubbing the navel to make the subtle humors flow, refining elixirs according to formulae, lighting fires under cauldrons, consuming 'Red lead,' purifying 'Autumn Stone,' and drinking women's milk.”

“Can doing things like that make me live for ever?” Monkey asked.

“To try and attain immortality that way is like 'lifting the moon out of water.'”

------------------------

 

Also it seems to me that Golden Flower follows an order similar to the masters in that focusing mind on breathing originally then it speaks of the method of "STOPPING AND SEEING" and so that seems to be the same as Hua Tou method

So is there stages here in Golden flower

 

1 calm the mind by mind on breathing until point of stillness

2 once this has reached some good effects,,start "STOPPING AND SEEING" method =i.e Hua Tou method of Hsu Yun

3 advanced stages

------------------------------------------------

 

Any help on this will be helping me fight out of birth and death

Thanks and me getting out will be partial merit to you guys :cheers: ooopps against precepts :rules: ....

So maybe i should put :namaste:

[ChiDragon]

So my real question is :

What is the real method to bring out this true energy?

What does he mean by focus mind on single point here,because he seems to say its just a matter of sitting or calming down oneself and reflecting inwardly so therefore is reflecting inwardly the true method? but they seem to suggest different practices and yet not just reflecting inwardly,hmm scratched head

 

I think most people do not understand why the Buddhists meditate(參禪). Anyway, the Buddhists mediate were for enlightenment to understand a particular philosophy by focusing on a single point to find its truth. The single point was referred as a subject which require a quiet state to contemplate profoundly until it was resolved mentally. After the accomplishment in finding the truth and enhanced their wisdom, hence, they were considered to be enlightened.

 

When they had attained at a high level of wisdom, their minds are in a calmer state which reflecting their personality. Thus it was seemingly that their nature or behavior was revealed inwardly.

[thelerner]

Hmnn,

maybe learn, do, forget

learn, do until natural, then forget

repeat until

.. you forget the goal.

[Cheshire Cat]

Hsuan Hua Talks of four stages of Dhyana and sitting practice... his first Dhyana explanation on the fact that external breathing stops and the true breathing occurs on one of his explanations yet i read not a consistent method of one practice,it seems there are many practices the masters mention.

 

Yes, there are many gates to reach that result.

 

Then at a most important point in all this is the true method of Nurturing energy with Samadhi and Hsuan Hua speaks in the same language as Liu yi Ming Taoist patriarch and Mencius

Here is his saying"

 

"""Attached to marks,

whatever you do is wrong;

But in non-activity

you fall into emptiness.

“What should I do?” you ask. It is just at this point that the

greatest difficulty arises, but if you handle it, just that is nothought.

 

 

Now he says..its at this point that the greatest difficulty arises,now liu yi ming says this exact thing is one of his texts

 

The Master said "If you want to know the theory, lust is empty and emptiness is lust".

I cannot say more.

 

At all times, look within yourself and recognize your original face(what does he mean by this?-how does one look within like he is speaking of).

 

This is just the core of the hua t'ou practice of reversing the light. Ask yourself "Who you are".

Check Lu K'uan Yü 's book "Secrets of Chinese Meditation" or "Ch'an and Zen Teachings" or "Practical Buddhism" to understand the method.

This cultivates both dhyana and prajna.

Edited January 1, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[Cheshire Cat]

So my real question is :

What is the real method to bring out this true energy?

What does he mean by focus mind on single point here,because he seems to say its just a matter of sitting or calming down oneslef and reflecting inwardly so therefore

is reflecting inwardly the true method? but they seem to suggest different practices and yet not just reflecting inwardly,hmm scratched head

 

The method is based on:

1) dhyana (one-pointedness, etc...);

2) prajna (right understanding of emptiness);

 

You need both.

 

There are different gates to cultivate those two aspects.

 

When there's not a single thought in your mind, that is dhyana.

When you can let go of everything, that is prajna.

Edited January 1, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[adept]

http://zennist.typepad.com/files/lachszen_2012_02_11.docx.pdf

 

Interesting article on hua-tou.

[Suliman]

Thanks Guys for your replies

Funny enough Dao rain Dao ive started reading Lu K'uan Yü 's book "Secrets of Chinese Meditation today

 

so hopefully thats a good omen(-: