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Well I have gone and done it now. So there is not much turning back.

It is my prayer that this discussion goes well. In greater light, we tend to also find other beings as well. Remember to be calm.


This quote I will show you brings up some interesting points:


Explanation of the Two Unenlightenments - At the time of distraction into delusions, the aspect of one's not realizing the wisdom which dwells in oneself is called innate unenlightenment. The aspect of perceiving self-percepts as others is called imaginative unenlightenment. By not realizing that the delusions have arisen from the natural/primordial pure ground, and by clinging to the apprehended selfhood of the percepts as objects, beings are deluded by them as the external world and internal beings having individual bodies (created by) the maturation (of their karma) and habituations, and minds with the five poisons. The root of delusion is unenlightenment. In the Prajnaparamita-sancayagatha it is said, "All beings of lesser, middle, and excellent intellect arise from unenlightenment. Thus said the Buddha." Concerning apprehending duality, the condition of delusion, the Prajnaparamita-astasaharika says, "By apprehending "I" and "my", beings are wandering in samsara."


UnEnlightenment can happen by false perceptions, imaginations that are false. Yet veterans of Buddhism do tend to understand that this subject becomes difficult the more you try to separate out the false from the true.


Let me tread with caution, lest people misunderstand that I am not making any of the dharmmas "wrong" with my words. I am saying that imaginations can be right, if following dharmmas for communication with higher beings. Focusing on the positive and higher vibrations and energies of things helps us to be aware of this truth.


However, we are at a slight disadvantage because we opened the topic on a negative.

A teacher would tell me to read something, however here I think this might be a good topic to just talk about. Get the energy moving so to speak.


Share what you have read and your experiences. :)

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wub.gif nicely said.


Thanks Ambrose.


Samasra reflects itself in us, sentient beings.


I don't know how to say more without being misunderstood or goes into error. sad.gif

I can only said what is not.


"Samasra is not what is seems,

Nirvana is not what is seems,

5 Skhanas not what is seems.


Sentient beings not what is seems,

Buddha not what is seems,

Knowing not what is seems.


so take off those shades cool.gif and look inside/outside with a different light.

everything not what is seems;

nothing not what is seems.

what is it? the seeing the seems.


All the sutras said the same thing for different people with different tastes.


the one sutra for you is here with your being.

Looking inside to know outside, outside to know inside.

there's no independent inside or outside.


If you can make this the case then no matter where you aim,

all arrows will hit the spot.


Lest all is my imagination too, for without it what can be said. "


Like Ambrose said, lets get it started.

May the energy flows... ohmy.giflaugh.gifbiggrin.giftongue.gif

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I am not sure about this but maybe this is how your prayer got answered.


There's something along what you said in the Vimalakriti Sutra


"Vimalakirti replied, "Manjusri, a bodhisattva shouldregard all livings beings as a wise man regards the reflection of the moon inwater or as magicians regard men created by magic. He should regard them asbeing like a face in a mirror; like the water of a mirage; like the sound of anecho; like a mass of clouds in the sky; like the previous moment of a ball offoam; like the appearance and disappearance of a bubble of water; like the coreof a plantain tree; like a flash of lightning; like the fifth great element;like the seventh sense-medium; like the appearance of matter in an immaterialrealm; like a sprout from a rotten seed; like a tortoise-hair coat; like thefun of games for one who wishes to die; like the egoistic views of astream-winner; like a third rebirth of a once-returner; like the descent of anonreturner into a womb; like the existence of desire, hatred, and folly in asaint; like thoughts of avarice, immorality, wickedness, and hostility in abodhisattva who has attained tolerance; like the instincts of passions in aTathagata; like the perception of color in one blind from birth; like theinhalation and exhalation of an ascetic absorbed in the meditation ofcessation; like the track of a bird in the sky; like the erection of a eunuch;like the pregnancy of a barren woman; like the unproduced passions of anemanated incarnation of the Tathagata; like dream-visions seen after waking;like the passions of one who is free of conceptualizations; like fire burningwithout fuel; like the reincarnation of one who has attained ultimateliberation."


Robert Thurman's translation of Vimalakirti Sutra



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