Empty the mind and fill the belly!

[fatguyslim]

Hey guys, I have got a serious question from the Taoist I Ching (commentary by Liu I-ming) translated by Thomas Cleary. I read the hexagram number 34 called Great Power few days ago and I stumbled upon something by Liu I-Ming which I think he has never revealed before (or maybe he has and I never understood in the past). In this hexagram he comments on the top yin as follows

 

"Top yin: The ram running into the fence cannot retreat, cannot go ahead; there is no benefit. Struggle will produce good results.

 

EXPLANATION

If one is ignorant and acts arbitrarily, indulges in guesswork and goes off on tangents, a lifetime of studies will after all be useless. This is like a ram having run into a fence, unable to retreat or go ahead. At the culmination of action, disaster has already developed, so it is impossible to pull out of it; at the end of an affair, it is too late for regret - how can one go on to success? Unable to withdraw, unsuccessful in going ahead, one's whole life is wasted - what benefit is there? So for people who are weak and lack capability, rather than apply power by themselves and get hurt in the process, it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher. Studying when stumped, exerting effort to practice what is learned, working intensively while struggling through difficulty, not worrying about not reaching the realm of great power - this is originally not being powerful yet becoming powerful through resort to what is right."

 

Now I urge you guys to share what you think about the line "it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher." I always believed that to empty the mind is also something what a teacher can explain. But after reading this it has cleared many doubts in my mind and now how I understand about emptying the mind is something that one should discern by oneself. This also accords with other Liu's texts in which he prioritizes the students to investigate the principles meaning to discern what is true and what is false, through reading more texts. I believe this whole process of knowing the true and repelling the false falls into the same category, which will eventually lead one to a teacher who can then teach the students to practice the truth.

 

This is what I believe but if you have something that might open my eyes and allows me to see beyond what I understand (through my silly little mindset), then that would be greatly helpful.

 

Also please share how you go about emptying your mind because it will be interesting to know what everyone practices in search of the Truth. Thanks and I look forward to your replies.

 

Cheers

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Hey guys, I have got a serious question from the Taoist I Ching (commentary by Liu I-ming) translated by Thomas Cleary. I read the hexagram number 34 called Great Power few days ago and I stumbled upon something by Liu I-Ming which I think he has never revealed before (or maybe he has and I never understood in the past). In this hexagram he comments on the top yin as follows

 

"Top yin: The ram running into the fence cannot retreat, cannot go ahead; there is no benefit. Struggle will produce good results.

 

EXPLANATION

If one is ignorant and acts arbitrarily, indulges in guesswork and goes off on tangents, a lifetime of studies will after all be useless. This is like a ram having run into a fence, unable to retreat or go ahead. At the culmination of action, disaster has already developed, so it is impossible to pull out of it; at the end of an affair, it is too late for regret - how can one go on to success? Unable to withdraw, unsuccessful in going ahead, one's whole life is wasted - what benefit is there? So for people who are weak and lack capability, rather than apply power by themselves and get hurt in the process, it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher. Studying when stumped, exerting effort to practice what is learned, working intensively while struggling through difficulty, not worrying about not reaching the realm of great power - this is originally not being powerful yet becoming powerful through resort to what is right."

 

Now I urge you guys to share what you think about the line "it is better to quickly empty the mind and seek a teacher." I always believed that to empty the mind is also something what a teacher can explain. But after reading this it has cleared many doubts in my mind and now how I understand about emptying the mind is something that one should discern by oneself. This also accords with other Liu's texts in which he prioritizes the students to investigate the principles meaning to discern what is true and what is false, through reading more texts. I believe this whole process of knowing the true and repelling the false falls into the same category, which will eventually lead one to a teacher who can then teach the students to practice the truth.

 

This is what I believe but if you have something that might open my eyes and allows me to see beyond what I understand (through my silly little mindset), then that would be greatly helpful.

 

Also please share how you go about emptying your mind because it will be interesting to know what everyone practices in search of the Truth. Thanks and I look forward to your replies.

 

Cheers

 

 

Hey fatguyslim! I hope things are going well for you!

 

My interpretation given the context here is that, when someone is trying to practice and just keeps running into walls, and is stubborn like a ram not allowing his himself to learn with an open mind, he should empty his mind, ie, empty his cup of thinking he knows all about this and that so that a teacher can fill it with it instructions. Of course, when we think we know so much about this and that, it is really difficult for a teacher to fill a cup that is already full. The highest teachers are very very simple, so simple most would never believe that they have something to teach them -- thus it is very important to consider that even the simplest person you encounter might in reality deserve your utmost humbleness -- far more than one who's loftiness is apparent. It takes an almost impossible amount of true humility to humble one's self beneath someone who is so incredibly humble. No matter how low you bow... they're always closer to the earth

[fatguyslim]

Hey fatguyslim! I hope things are going well for you!

 

My interpretation given the context here is that, when someone is trying to practice and just keeps running into walls, and is stubborn like a ram not allowing his himself to learn with an open mind, he should empty his mind, ie, empty his cup of thinking he knows all about this and that so that a teacher can fill it with it instructions. Of course, when we think we know so much about this and that, it is really difficult for a teacher to fill a cup that is already full. The highest teachers are very very simple, so simple most would never believe that they have something to teach them -- thus it is very important to consider that even the simplest person you encounter might in reality deserve your utmost humbleness -- far more than one who's loftiness is apparent. It takes an almost impossible amount of true humility to humble one's self beneath someone who is so incredibly humble. No matter how low you bow... they're always closer to the earth

 

This is very true and I do believe that being humble is very important. In this context I agree he is asking students to be humble but I think there is more to that as well. One cannot be humble if one does not get rid of the human mentality i.e. random thoughts and arbitrarily acting on them. If one can overcome this human mentality then one naturally becomes humble. It is because of this human mind that one keeps running into trouble without knowing if its troublesome. I have heard Liu say that students usually take the false to be real without fully understanding the principles. So emptying the mind (meaning being absolutely humble) allows great teachers to work with students.

 

Thinking that one can ascend without lowering themselves is one of the common mistakes what students make (not my words btw). Overcoming this human mind cannot happen overnight and it cannot be forced either. Thats why I asked what everyone does in order to eliminate this human mindset?

 

This I ching is written by a Taoist Alchemical master, so people who read taoist alchemical will definitely find this interesting and obviously spot something in these sayings which I cannot.

 

Thanks for your reply and I hope to hear more.

 

Cheers

[Marblehead]

"Empty the mind and fill the belly."

 

Stop thinking so freakin' much and live spontaneously!!!

[fatguyslim]

"Empty the mind and fill the belly."

 

Stop thinking so freakin' much and live spontaneously!!!

 

I wish I could do that mate trust me!

[Marblehead]

I wish I could do that mate trust me!

 

Hehehe. Belly laughs.

 

Yeah, I have an advantage, I am an old man and have been retired for 15 years.

 

It's not necessary to get there, I think. Just head in that direction whenever you have the free personal time. When it's time for you to retire you will know how to do it properly.

 

Best wishes!

[Guest allan]

[fatguyslim]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

Liu had a culture where he came across 3 genuine masters and hence he climbed the Ark. He stress students to do the same but I sometimes wish I could say to him "this is not 18th century china and I am far from it." LOL

 

Though some good teachers will say that you should forget about books and just practice what you learn from themselves, I really think that we need to continue studying/teaching ourselves even when we find a great teacher. No teacher knows everything and everyone learns a bit more in different directions even within the same tradition, so I think it's important to continue reading and studying so that you know what you want to pursue learning.

 

Just because one teacher doesn't have all the answers for us, they could still expedite our progress immensely and then another teacher will pick up from there and bring us in the next direction until we get where we're trying to go. Continuing to learn and study on your own is needed for us to know which exits we need to take to get where we're trying to go. As long as you keep driving toward that goal you'll eventually land in the right town and find a guide who knows the route. Wisdom and Faith are most complementary qualities when the path becomes overgrown

 

don't loose sight of the guiding stars. Put one foot in front of the other and keep moving forward until you get there. Don't eat yellow snow.

[fatguyslim]

Though some good teachers will say that you should forget about books and just practice what you learn from themselves, I really think that we need to continue studying/teaching ourselves even when we find a great teacher. No teacher knows everything and everyone learns a bit more in different directions even within the same tradition, so I think it's important to continue reading and studying so that you know what you want to pursue learning.

 

Just because one teacher doesn't have all the answers for us, they could still expedite our progress immensely and then another teacher will pick up from there and bring us in the next direction until we get where we're trying to go. Continuing to learn and study on your own is needed for us to know which exits we need to take to get where we're trying to go. As long as you keep driving toward that goal you'll eventually land in the right town and find a guide who knows the route. Wisdom and Faith are most complementary qualities when the path becomes overgrown

 

don't loose sight of the guiding stars. Put one foot in front of the other and keep moving forward until you get there. Don't eat yellow snow.

 

Very good point mate... You are right about what you are saying mate but I think the road is long and sidetracks are countless and the only thing that gets people to the ultimate is the sincerity in their intent. I forget the intent sometimes wen I post anything on this forum but I guess what you guys are saying is what teaches me that again. Thank you guys I love hearing your comments

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Very good point mate... You are right about what you are saying mate but I think the road is long and sidetracks are countless and the only thing that gets people to the ultimate is the sincerity in their intent. I forget the intent sometimes wen I post anything on this forum but I guess what you guys are saying is what teaches me that again. Thank you guys I love hearing your comments

 

Like I said, know the destination = know the exits. Wisdom and Faith like one hand washing the other. Looks like you figured out the next exit . Any time