Marblehead

A Statement Of Gratitude

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I would very much like to thank all Americans who pay income taxes.

 

Our taxes are what allow for our government to operate and preserve our way of life, free from tyranny, with one of the most free societies on the planet.

 

And mostly, I would like to thank all anti-war, anti-military, and pacifists who pay their taxes because it is our tax dollars that pay for my Army Retirement which this November I will have drawn on for 31 years.

 

My sincere thanks!!!

 

Peace & Love!

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This is meant ironic, isn't it? Forgive me for not being sure. ;)

 

Strange synchronicity. Just yesterday I watched "America: Freedom to Fascism", where it is depicted at length how the IRS mafia collects illegal income tax and collaborates with judges that are so openly criminal that you wouldn't believe it.

It's also said that the income tax from wages doesn't pay for civil services, but that these are paid for by other taxes, often state-based, and that the - not illegal - income tax from the commercial sector matches the military spendings quite accurately. I'm no sure though whether the over 1 billion dollars going into black projects and international bribery are included in this.

 

Here people, please take the time to watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

 

Oh, and here are two very telling quotes. As I'm sure you know, every US president has to swear an oath to protect the Constitution.

 

George W. Bush, Nov 2005, Capital Hill Blue: "The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper."

 

Bill Clinton, March 11, 1993: "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans."

 

Interesting that those people don't get the death penalty for high treason.

Edited by Hardyg

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This is meant ironic, isn't it? Forgive me for not being sure. ;)

Hehehe. Actually, both ironic and realistic.

 

I am very grateful that I have my retirement pay. We retirees have lost some benefits since I retired but the money in the bank every month was what allowed me to retire early.

 

No, I don't always agree with my government. Sometimes I even think they are a bunch of crooks. And yes, we can add the IRS in with that bunch of crooks.

 

But I did serve proudly and did the best job I was capable of doing. And yes, I thought (and still think) I was doing my country a service while at the same time securing an income for myself.

 

And yes, I believe tha America is slowly becoming a fascist state. Sad, you know, but that is what I am seeing.

 

Yes, funding of Civil Service is different than funding the active and retired military. Funding of Civil Service comes from various sources while the military is directly from the national defense budget.

 

I never liked either of the Bushes and didn't care all that much for Clinton but I did vote for him. I voted against the Bushes.

 

And it is true, the power people don't care anything about the average American as long as they can suck tax dollars from them. And yes, I pay income tax on my retirement.

 

Peace & Love!

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I think the transformation accelerates, Marblehead.

 

I actually agree with you. There was already a movement in that direction but bush sped that process up dramatically and Obama has done nothing to change the trend.

 

Time will tell. Maybe Americans will wake up pretty soon?

 

Peace & Love!

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And yes, I pay income tax on my retirement.

This is even sicker. (The system, not you. :lol: ) According to the documentary, millions of US citizens don't file a 1040 as required by the IRS but forbidden by the Constitution and have success with that, because there are still juries in court and if they know ... they will simply ask the prosecution to show them the law. And they won't, because there is none.

(Income is not defined in the IRS code, but in the Constitution, where it is defined as being profit from commercial conduct. Getting wages is no income.)

 

You should check with a lawyer informed about this problem whether income tax on retirement is a special thing. If not, you pseudo-voluntarily support a criminal institution. (Which to a certain degree we all do. :rolleyes: )

 

It is so crazy: Imaging every now and then there were court cases where the mafia sued people because they didn't pay their protection money, and they regularly lose, and in some rare cases win, because they own the judge. That's what's going on. The government is the primary mafia, and the other mafias are unwanted competition.

 

Oh, here's another great statement from the documentary, as said by a judge of a lower court about a decision made by the Supreme Court:

 

I will not allow the law in this courtroom!

 

Another one said that Supreme Court decisions are irrelevant.

Edited by Hardyg

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This is even sicker.

 

Yeah, it has already been tested in court. It is considered income because we did not make a monetary contribution to the funding of the retirement.

 

Actually, it was tax exempt until 1981 (or 82). But the government needed more money so they just kept some of our retirement money.

 

Yes, there are many who do not file and the government cannot do anything about it because there is no paper trail.

 

What really teed me off last year was that after congress denied us a cost of living increase to both military retirement and Social Security they went a gave themselves a raise for saving the government some money. Do I need to mention the word 'greed'?

 

But all will be well with me. Hehehe. I am a survivor!

 

Peace & Love!

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BTW, failure to pay taxes is, in my estimation, an act of willful theft from every citizen who doesn't evade tax obligation regardless of "feelings" about the regulations or how the money is spent.

Things like these are said to cause division among people. If the basis of it all is criminal, you can't steal from someone else. Man, there are so many other levels on which this statement is problematic. First we have to stick to what's decent, and then everything can work much better than now.

There are several myths like these, having their origin with the people who those myths serve. Another very popular and divisive one is: "If you didn't vote, you have no right to complain!", or a very popular and insanely abstract one in Germany: "If you don't vote, you vote for the neo-nazis." (This one just assumes that of course the one coerced by this statement to vote won't vote for the radical right. And even apart from that, it's still crazy - opportunistic power politics vs. principled democracy.)

 

Always look for the basis of the system.

Here's an example with the same line of thought that you used, and examining the basis:

In Germany solar panels are built on the rooftops of public buildings and common people are investing, surely because they are promised that it will be profitable. Now this is only profitable because the government subsidizes them with their and everybody else's tax money. Government is probably in bed with the industry, which makes HUGE profits with solar panels and openly says so. And the solar panels raise the energy cost of everybody, because it's a kind of mix, and the energy companies are obliged to take the energy.

So here I would say those people leech taxes from other people, and for personal profit! In a harmless interpretation, they become trained animals of the government. In a more harsh interpretation, they become mercenaries of capitalism, because they are willing to reap a bigger part of the cookie while others will have a smaller part, in essence they're in parts bribing themselves with their own money.

 

But to come back to your statement... I'm all for paying taxes when it's decent, but whenever a system of taxation is not according to the will of the people, it has to be abolished by means that work. And a time-tested method is to not take part in a system in order to bring it down.

Unfortunately, civil disobedience is rare. Because people are afraid of some minor repercussions today, they will have to be afraid of being shot tomorrow.

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It's not about choosing at will what laws to follow and what not, it's about proving that something is unlawful. You neglect the fact of corruption and unlawfulness in the government. The means you mentioned for chaning laws, for partaking in the democratic process, might not work. And then what?

Besides, they sometimes don't even claim it's the law, but evade.

Please watch the documentary if you find the time. Because you say you've done personal research into this matter, I'd really like to hear what you think of the information presented in the film. I can't summarize it very well, because it's a lot.

 

Your view that a system of voluntary contribution to a government is unsustainable is almost philosophical. Maybe it could work if adverse interests were kept in check. Because then every individual would participate immensely in society and the whole system, and would feel that much more.

 

I hope I can encourage you to re-examine your thoughts without any social conditioning about what is not possible. So much of this "not possible" is a tool for social control. I mean, that's also a big point in spirituality. To eventually free oneself of all self-imposed limitations.

 

About your dinner example: Many variables, maybe a bad comparison. Imagine TTB were the only way of maintaining social contacts. Or imagine other forums would have the same policy. The approach whose more extreme motto is "Love it or leave it!" ir problematic, because one might have contributed to the system. Imagine all that every US citizen has done for the country, and then one tax is rejected in the interest of justice and one is told to leave.

I can't write this down in an appropriate way, but seems to me like slightly totalitarian nationalism.

It will probably help not to be diverted by details, but to look at the fundamental mindset. You know, spiritually. It hardens the frontiers, so to speak.

The people who dare (because it takes bravery to oppose a massive authority that threatens violence) to refuse to pay income tax do this with very good reasons.

 

As I said, I think the documentary would be helpful in providing a factual basis about the problem. It not just quotes laws, but shows the whole way the government is dealing with the matter, which speaks for itself.

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The taxes I pay I can't avoid to pay, and even if I paid avoidable taxes, not paying them would cause too much trouble in my situation. But Germany is different in regards to the income tax. (We have other things that are fundamentally illegal here, though ... like the whole federal republic for example. :wacko: As implicitly confirmed by the German supreme court. :lol: )

(I do reject a clean-air-sticker on my car, though, that forbids older cars to drive in certain zones. I have a protest-sticker and don't care about those zones, because the whole thing is nonsense, and science combined with common sense has already shown it. The politicians just ignore it, and this is not right. So I won't partake.)

 

If you say people refuse to pay the income tax, but benefit from provided services, then first we would have to examine in details whether that's really the case, i.e. what is the federal income tax used for.

There really might be oppurtunists, but they would still be somewhat brave opportunists ... and still on the legal side. You know, instead of seeing them as parasites, everybody should do the same. Then something HAS to be done. The people are only powerful when they are united in an effort.

Right now I recognize how this system of peer pressure that occurs with things like common taxation, people paying into a big pot from which collectively things are funded, is somewhat similar to globalization. There, too, everybody depends on others, so when for example one European country decides to not bail out a big bank, the others will force it do do it, because they would feel a negative impact. It's the whole "too big to fail"-thing. You could also see the income tax in this regard: "Well, it might be illegal, but it's too big to fail, and thus not practical." So, what IS practical? ... Just continue paying it.

You know, like depicted in the documentary, unfortunately there seems to be no 'proper' alternative way of resolving this, because you're dealing with utter criminals.

Of course, when you want to bring down the mafia, you don't do it by their rules, but by yours. (Because naturally their rules are made for self-preservation.)

 

As you might understand, I'm trying to view things from as high above as possible in order to see the bigger picture and have a variety of information to use in this, and from this 'big picture'-view, money, as used today, equals blackmail and/or bribes. Things like this are not obvious when one is still highly indoctrinated, but I get funny experiences when I suddenly see certain situations with new eyes and think: "How in the world can people do this?!"

Someone has to work for a crook of a boss in order to feed his family. He does it because he gets money to ensure this => blackmail

Someone is promised to get a raise when being very diligent and efficient in his job, by being more inhumane to others => bribery

 

So many people do so many cruel things that they would NEVER do if they weren't offered some form of material gain for it. Again, in 'big picture mode', the distinction between "job" and "crime" vanishes and you only look at what's factually happening. But people don't like to hear this and hide behind that 'official authority', and by that they become complicit and might begin to actively defend the cruelty in the system. They act like in the belief that a crime can be legalized and thus loses its immorality. Other people think in the way of nature-given laws or just people power, true democracy, humanism and that stuff and equal immorality with crime - the way it should be. :)

 

You could go a step further in that big picture and realize that laws are a mere technicality. Authority is all that matters. Laws mean nothing, because they can be broken, and sometimes with very little or no consequences. That's why the nuclear non-proliferation treaty has been meaningless the whole time. Realize this, and then realize that not the treaty is 'the law', but those who disobey it are 'the law', because they have the power to do it, and they prove it by doing it.

 

So basically powerful groups just do what they want. (This might go too far, so I'll just briefly mention that there are also no property rights in the world. Every country that defends, say, its natural resources, is merely perpetuating conquest, for originally they took that land with violence. It's the same thought as with royalty/nobility: someone being royal because of what? Being ruthless, getting rich and powerful, calling oneself royal, and imagining it being hereditary. All a scam for maintaining power, working very well with people who admire royalty. Those fools admire total ruthlessness and domination though violence.)

 

Sorry, hard to stop writing once I've started. :rolleyes::lol:

Edited by Hardyg

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Glad you guys are having a lively discussion here.

 

Myself, I can't avoid my income taxes because all my income is reported to the government before I even get the money.

 

Yes, my government spends money in ways that I totally disagree with. I do speak out about it whenever I get the opportunity.

 

But then, I don't see any possibility for significant change in the near future so I will continue to pay my taxes and bitch about what I don't like.

 

Peace & Love!

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Myself, I can't avoid my income taxes because all my income is reported to the government before I even get the money.

Reported or taken?

As fas as I understood, the point that the documentary deals with is not to not tell the government your financial situation, but to not pay the tax regardless of that. When you think: "Too bad, the government knows about me!", you behave like you are a criminal, having to hide something, which is ironic, because those who (want to) know about you are criminals and have to hide something. ;)

The whole situation is kinda perverted. Like (add Italian accent here) "You're a reeeealy bad boy for not paying your protection money, you know that? Imagine what happened if nobody did! Do you want that, hm?!" :lol:

Edited by Hardyg

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Reported or taken?

As fas as I understood, the point that the documentary deals with is not to not tell the government your financial situation, but to not pay the tax regardless of that. When you think: "Too bad, the government knows about me!", you behave like you are a criminal, having to hide something, which is ironic, because those who (want to) know about you are criminals and have to hide something. ;)

The whole situation is kinda perverted. Like (add Italian accent here) "You're a reeeealy bad boy for not paying your protection money, you know that? Imagine what happened if nobody did! Do you want that, hm?!" :lol:

 

Reported.

 

I can select how much to give the government any given month by changing my witholding statement. But if I give them too little each month I may be subject to penalties. Payment of income taxes is actually required monthly.

 

If I pay too little each month I will owe the remainder at the end of the year and have until April 15 to pay the remainder. If the amout exceeds a certain limit I am subject to paying the penalities as well as the interest on that money.

 

Would I not pay my taxes if I could get away with it? No, not now. But there was a point in my life when I would have avoided them if I could have.

 

Peace & Love!

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