idquest

41 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Thank you for the response and additional information on this topic.  what is this? bold above 

 stress straining for body tissues

 

Is that referring to muscle-strengthening activities?  Activity that will increase range of motion and flexibility?  I am thinking for the age 60+ group.  Balance building is important for seniors, and i feel like i am getting that with the qi gong.  I am interested in more on this.  Thank you.  I am thinking of the scenes with a group of seniors in China doing Tai Chi movement.   A moving Tai Chi like that would give me more movement.  Is that considered a "martial art" ?  Wild Goose (Dayan) has movement but it is still qi gong, and not considered tai chi.

 

That was a typo, I meant stress training rather than stress straining. Something like resistance training.

If qigong works for your balance training - great, this is what you need. From my personal experience though, the insufficient/lack of balance in seniors results from diminishing volume of muscle tissue and a resulting inability to maintain a proper body posture. Everybody has their own muscular-skeleton problems, but generally I'd say building up butt, hamstrings, and back muscles would be a key in enhancing the balance. 

Taiji is certainly a MA, but what you see when groups of elderly people doing form - this is more like qigong or a dance. Ideally, MA will have a partner training component and this is when resistance training can be tested.

To clarify my thought - qi does not replace strength and power.  Soft qigong forms are good if you can't do more physically demanding MA forms - this is why ba dua jin variants are so popular among elderly. So judge yourself.

2 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

I have the same question asked by Turnip.  I agree that physical grounding activity is necessary.  But i question whether the grounding activity must come through martial arts.  For instance walking in nature every day for 80 minutes.  It would be helpful for me to hear more on that.  Thank you.    My qi gong practice is 130 minutes daily, it is Zhineng qi gong mostly, and some Flying Phoneix qi gong.  Both are slow meditative eyes closed forms.  Zhineng is based on Hunyuan qi.  

 

 

You need some kind of stress straining for body tissues. More accurately, you might not need it if you are younger than 30 YO, but with age, you need it more and more. No qigong provides a required kind of stress training, but forms like daoyin, MA, or ashtanga yoga (the brutal one) can work. If you don't do something like this, you will have two kind of issues:

- your qi will stagnate and won't develop internally

- your health will deteriorate with time. 

Walking is a good practice but it is sort of one-sided and does not provide a required spectrum of physical training.

It does not have to be MA. it is just that Chinese people developed good curriculum of combining reaching several goals by training MA, so it is sort of time efficient.

Speaking from personal experience.

One of the biggest obstacles on the path (and life in general) is arrogance/pride/hubris. This is why it is important to train humility. Quite often, hubris masks itself as pretended humility - this is a tricky one.

Damo is genuinely humble. Call him and his school whatever, but he is deeply and genuinely humble, and there are few people like this who walk the path.

To clarify: this my opinion of him comes from several personal interactions I've had with him.

4 hours ago, markern said:

Would you care to say what the question marks are? And could you say more about your experience?

No not really - re his question marks. But they are minor.

Jesse teaches several sets. I like his 'Washing' qigong set the most. Jesse has a good level of details explaining the movements and general daoist concepts. Whether this works for you - this will depend on what your goals are. 

8 hours ago, Krenx said:

@Sahaja

Mark Rasmus method. Many great students are teaching and doing good work across the world. They are encouraged to use his methods to support their own paths, discover deeper in their own paths. And leaves the credit of skills on his students and their own hard work. Never imposes any need to mention him ever, which is very rare. 

 

And spiritually, students truly own their achieved skills because of this free and healthy dynamic for passing on skills.

You did not mentioned it and I'm not sure to what extent you are aware, but Damo Mitchell studied with Mark Rasmus for several years, and I believe Damo's real core abilities come from Mark.

Often, people get entangled in language of the system and miss substance. Mark does not use daoist vocabulary much, but what he can do and what he teaches eclipses what most 'daoist' teachers teach.

11 hours ago, markern said:

I think Jesse Lee Parker could be a good alternative for those who considered Damo but have been put off for some reason. He has an online academy now, teaches alchemy, comes off extremely well as a person IMO, teaches very well and an amazing poster on this forum for some years. He used to post here under the name Dao Zhen. You can check his archive, his posts are great. He has learnt a lot since then but a lot of what he teaches seem to be the same stuff he learnt from the teacher he had back then. 

You can find his online academy here:

https://www.immortalarts.org

I agree. Jesse Lee Parker has a good curriculum even though it is not very flashy. Jesse has his own question marks, but overall my experience has been good. 

10 hours ago, ChunMaya said:

Thank you for sharing your experience. That’s fascinating — especially the part about Damo stopping public transmissions after that incident. I can see how something that intense could shift his teaching style and priorities.
 

Your story also reinforces for me that Damo has genuine LDT development. What really interests me is how different systems or teachers articulate what the LDT is and how it forms. Most explanations tend to stay within traditional or symbolic language, but it's rare to hear it described using more functional models — especially ones grounded in field theory.
 

Damo calling it a “magnetic container” stood out to me. That’s the closest I've heard someone get to an accurate mechanical description. It aligns well with how I understand the LDT from my own training and research.

TO be honest, my opinion and experience from years of practice is that the LDT development is overrated. If you are into MA, you just need to understand how psoas muscles and waist muscles work. If you are in spiritual development, you need to work on the internal tissues (neigong) and at the same time work on the qi field surrounding yourself. LDT is just a piece in a big puzzle. Of course one might place a lot of focus on the LDT development in their practice, but to what end? As always, all of this boils down to one's goals.

My opinion of course.

On 26/05/2025 at 5:02 PM, ChunMaya said:

...

So, with that context:

• Has anyone here personally experienced Damo’s skill?

• Is there any video or in-person testimony that shows he has real internal power, beyond theoretical frameworks?

• Or is it more a case of encyclopedic knowledge with no Faqi or field resonance behind it?
   

Again, not trying to stir anything — I’m just trying to sort the signal from the noise in this space. There are a lot of articulate voices in internal arts, but fewer who can actually do the thing.
 

Would love to hear from anyone who has trained with him or seen him work in person.
 

Thanks in advance.

I've taken several workshops with Damo. One time I was standing in wuji, eyes closed, and then I felt something strange in my kidney area, like something was moving there. After some time, I opened my eyes and saw Damo walking around people and doing some finger transmission in ming men area. It was not a big deal, lots of qigong instructors can do that, but it was certainly very distinct. In any way, Damo stopped doing any transmissions in open doors events after that guy from apricot garden died from failed heart doing too much of faqi. I guess that death had an impact on Damo's approach to teaching.

Regardless of all this, I doubt any new students will be able to pull off a training session with Damo these days. From what I understand, he has trained enough qigong instructors for open doors events, and  only very few of his senior students can now work directly with him. 

Just crossed my mind how I was in a class with Shou You Liang and he decided to demonstrate how to emit qi, and for whatever reason he kicked his leg and shot his qi from his young quan towards me. It was not much, and I was not sensitive those days, but there was a very distinct feeling of some weird stuff hitting me. Good days...

The topic question is a good one. For me, the distinction is this: what is the difference between instincts and the will. And what is the will, anyway? As I understand it, the will is something that should come from one's soul. The will is not instincts, and it is not a logical conclusion, for me anyway.

As a side note, there was a time a studied a bit of Kashmir Shaiva tantra, and the idea there was that there is no free will at all. I'm just repeating this without full understanding of it.

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

When one pass a beggar on the street, they ask for food or money. Do you as the grantor of the desire ask for something in return? So, if one prays for something from God then does God ask for something in return? The devil might ask for a transaction or deal to be made. However, i have never heard of God asking for anything. Although things may be offered.

 

Does God say you must repent to have one's wishes granted?? Or does God say you must do this or that so to have your wish to come to pass?? I believe the person making the prayer is asking and sometimes offering something in return. But, God, Jesus, Buddha, they do not ask for something in return. They might listen but there is no guarantee of the wish being granted.

 

Does one build spiritual credit? What would this credit be based upon? Gold ? Silver? Prayer? Worship? Would it be spiritual credit that the Buddha was born a prince? Or would it also be spiritual credit that Bodhidharma was born a prince? Or is it just Karma? What was done before determine where you are now?

I don't know, and you don't know for sure. The highlighted part is your understanding and your opinion, but this is not truth. At least this is how I see things. As a minimum, Gods require worship in return, and possibly much more than worship if somebody wants to obtain something from Gods. Hence my initial question.

The idea of gold, silver etc as a means of spiritual payment is just ridiculous, I can't understand why this keeps being brought up. 

As for beggars - I'd say that most people give them money/resources for getting psychological rewards in return, whatever they could be. The psychological rewards are very tangible, mind you.

2 hours ago, Apech said:

There’s an ancient Egyptian story called the shipwrecked sailor which is relevant to the question as to what a god may want from us (in return for whatever we ask from them) - and the answer is for their name to be remembered.

 

There is also a quote from I can’t remember who that ‘worship is continual remembrance’ .   
 

 

Yes this idea has been around - that gods want people's prayer energy, and in return the gods might grant something in return. Remembering - this is the kind of energy that could be close to prayer energy. 

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

Here is one idea ; you give a dog a drink of water  and you enjoy watching him drink the water .   His enjoyment of the experience is enough .  Another idea is that the 'transaction' is constantly being enacted  ; the Gods are not corporeal, they need our incarnations to experience  the 'wonders of the physical ' . 

IMO this is a weird self-rewarding scenario. A lot of people get high when they 'give'. Some people do give without any expectation and condition, but honestly - such people are rare. Same with domestic animals - most people enjoy being a 'master' of the animals, having power over them. Not all people, but I'd say a significant part of them, judging how people walk their dogs in the nearby park. Getting a 'high' from giving - something feels wrong about this one.

5 hours ago, Sherman Krebbs said:

 

I have thought about this.  It is very interesting.   I sometimes go to this Lutheran church by me.  I don't understand much, since its in a language I only pretend to understand, but I love the organ music and the rituals they conduct are absolutely breathtaking.  They sing these magical chants, and then, if you want you can go up and drink the blood of their guru and a baked cracker.  I sometimes sneak up there and have some.  I might go to hell.  Its funny, though, the blood tastes a little like wine.  It is really a magnificent experience, a magical ceremony of purification, which if delivered by any other means, or understood as magic, might be highly objectionable to those participating.   They also wear magical sigils on their cloaks.  The sigils and rituals change from season to season.  I don't know why , nor the spells that they use when the adorn them, but I am sure there are some and that they are quite elaborate. And the building is covered in symbols and has a massive picture of their guru, lying naked, save a conveniently dangling loose towel, dying on a cross ominously overseeing the dias, and constantly reminding of the pain and suffering in life, but also the resurrection and redemption from that pain and suffering that can be achieved by accepting his blessing.  It is really cool, but the point is that, until recently, I never really understood it as a magical ceremony. Most people involved in it would probably not understand it as such, but it is. And I say this as one who does not really practice magic, or really practice anything at all for that matter, excepting laughter. 

 

 

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Yes you are wrong ...  and so where the 'saints and Christian scholars'   ( if that indeed is what they taught us  ? )   . 

 

Care to elaborate?

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

In  some religions magic is permissible as long as it is attributed to its deity or clergy .  For  other to get involved in magic it is considered evil and attributed to evil forces .  Figure that one out !   

 

This one is easy - this is just a fight for control and power 

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

No .   

 

Did you ever have to pay your Mother back ?    (  I mean,  for all the stuff you where given and asked for as a child . )

It is strange that when talking about transactions, people think that transactions are limited to the monetary ones. Monetary transactions are the cheapest in value. 

I believe that most people pay their mothers back by being emotionally attached to them and in long term family relationship with them. Nobody here talks about dollar amounts, although some people could. 

9 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

If the question is how God does things.

 

Then it might be answered...

 

How does the being who caused the Big Bang to occur in order for the universe to be created answer prayers.

 

Entities of partial value and capacity use transactional methods due to their limited volume and energy.

 

God's energy and volume would be infinite transcending mere physical limits.

 

Like a nurturing parent, God would want people to pray to develop a relationship and ask for help when needed.

 

So God wants to have a relationship in exchange for service?

As a rule, when we ask for something, there is a price to pay. For example, asking for something from a devil usually involves a some kind of spiritual payment, like selling one's soul, as saints and christian scholars teach us (I could be wrong here, please correct me then).

But is not the same transactional rule apply when followers ask for something from their deities, such as Jesus, Allah, Buddha, etc.? Do people accrue a 'spiritual credit card' liability when asking for things from their deities?

7 hours ago, Sinai said:

oh mannn this is really sad, why not ? why not teaching them ? see he is 77 78 years old, he must train the next 19th heir of longmen pai, why he is doing this ? someone must tell him about these issues

1) You might have misunderstood what I said. If somebody lives in China, one should be very mindful of general political environment there. It is not about personal preferences, it is general.

2) Why do you think that WLP has not be training a successor? 

WLP had tentative plans on a retreat for foreigners in CHina this fall, but now the plans were cancelled. TBH, I think it is an external  political environment to blame which is not very conducive to teaching foreigners in China.

2 hours ago, Bindi said:

How would anyone practically go about removing actual karma? Not conceptually, but energetically, directly. That seems like a good place to start.

IMO what you are looking for is how to master sung/song. Karma is a aggregation of things/energies that get in a way of getting sung/song. One can go deeper in the spirituality only with deep and specific release which is song/sung in daoist tradition. You don't remove karma, you shed it like small pieces of skin or hair while doing release/sung/song. Although in the beginning of the process, some people will need a set of precepts which basically means having an ethical approach to life (yama/niyama, commandments, and all that).

Regarding maya - this is likely to be only a mental concept. Because I can't see how maya can get in the way of releasing other bodies than conceptual/mental. If/when one stops conceptualising, there will not be maya. 

You can try this one:

This is a well known qigong exercise that trains qi emitting and absorbing. It is also described in 'Qigong Empowerment'  book by Shou You Liang. DOn't expect immediate results, but you should feel good qi after 2-3 weeks.

9 hours ago, Jenn said:

In my experience, it is true depending on what you mean be "severe memory issues".

 

When you release the emotional information, you lose the "color" - including the host of mental nonsense like what other peoples reactions/thoughts/whatever were - I feel like my memories have shifted from third person to first person (it's funny they were in 3rd person at all). But you remember the facts. Although without the emotional context, the memory no longer resurfaces regularly, so it does start to fade. Personally, I find it a relief. It also makes enjoying new and repeat experiences easier, because what you experience in the present is no longer in the shadow of what you experienced in the past. It is no longer "this strawberry is good, but I have had better", it is "yum, strawberry". Or "ugh, great, now I need to work with so-and-so whose such a xyz" to "hi, let's do this!". You see things as they are in the moment, not some distorted version of what you think they were overlaid onto the present.

 

I also find I am less "invested" in insignificant things. I no longer ruminate about some minor thing that happened, so the information isn't as readily available in my short term memory. It happens, it ends, I move on. I forget about it, but if I try to think about it, it is still there (albeit slower to access). But then again, why try to think about it? I also find this to be a relief. That said I also simplified the work I do to be less mentally taxing, not because I was worried about my memory, but to reduce stress and have more energy to use during my free time.

 

The other memory related effect I have noticed is dilated time, which "distorts" when memories happened. I frequently remember something and it feels like it was months ago when in fact it was a few weeks ago. I haven't really been bothered by this, but it does create funny situations at work sometimes. I don't feel like things are racing by any more.

 

I can still study and learn new things. Skills I learned earlier in life, let atrophy, then try again still come back quickly (although in some cases that isn't always great either, like muscle memory from when I was more dysfunctional).

 

I don't feel like I struggle to remember what happened earlier in the day or in the last few days, but I definitely do not have quick access to the minutiae of life for long. I never realized what a big part of the experience of life previously was predicated on memory, I don't experience that much anymore, now the experience is based more on immediate senses and feelings. Another relief to be honest.

 

I haven't had trouble remembering things like where my keys are or what I am doing / need to do (well, anymore than usual - I have never been great at either thing). That said I did invest a lot of effort to simply my life so there is just less to remember. Life had gotten so complex and scheduled and I was starting to find that very stressful and repressive. So... hard to say if I saw an impact in this area of memory or not because of changes I previously made to reduce stress that coincided with the changes internally.

 

That said, I did go through a brief period of time earlier on where I was concerned about memory loss (struggling to remember facts / peoples names / struggling to find words). I don't know what that was (or if it was unrelated), but it doesn't bother me anymore. As I write this response I realize it is hard to say if I got used to it and stopped worrying about it, or it was just a phase that passed. It is possible when I thought I was "finally seeing how stressed out my life had become and deciding to simplify", I was actually experiencing new stress due to lowered mental capacity - hard to say. But I can still code, learn, get what I need done, do the things I value without any perceived drop in performance/ability and am not struggling to remember words anymore. My life is definitely better now than it was before, so... I'm not too worried about it.  I am in a healthier place, and "little brain-y" definitely feels happier after decades of being pushed to the max.

 

In fact, there are other areas where I am still actively working on forgetting / letting go. I still remember too much hehe.

 

But I can see how some practices (and more importantly ways people use those practices) can lead to imbalance. The mind is very delicate and memory is tied into the physical body, senses, emotion, energy, etc - it seems reasonable to me that an imbalanced approach that does not work the whole system gently could cause issues. Especially if you alter the mind quickly without also supporting / allowing the adjustment throughout the other affected systems. In my practice we don't really work the mind directly, we work on the physical, emotional, sense and energetic systems and allow release in those areas to release the mind naturally. Memories lose their color and prominence, but you gain wisdom from reintegrating the information stored in these other systems when the mind is unburdened and in turn can let go. Also I think (at least in the west) there is a tendency to use very forceful intention and effort to tame the mind like your breaking a stallion, rather than gently guiding and supporting change at a pace that allows healthy adjustment. Just like if you are an athlete that goes too hard too fast, you may cause injury or force your body to maladapt to cope.

What you describe as your personal experience is a well know phenomenon in the western occult practices  - a phenomenon caused by 'akasha' (if one were to use terminology of Franz Bardon's Kabala). There is also a tool/technology to counteract this undesirable effect, namely using 'non-dual light' meditation. Mark Rasmus talks A LOT about this and how one should take precautionary measures so that one's life is not disrupted.

On 05/02/2025 at 10:19 AM, Sinai said:

@Master Logray My dear friend,  I appreciate your insights, though I believe my intentions may have been misunderstood. My interest in Taoism is not merely about seeking solutions to personal problems, but rather a deep appreciation for its wisdom and a desire to integrate it into my life, also i must learn the Practices of Three Transcendence and only Wang Liping and/or his Senior Students can teach me that (as far as i know, hope i find any alternatives), please go to Page 1 of this Thread and read fully The practices and practice Names and what they do, there are 45 Methods fully based on oral teachings of Lingbao bifa of Lu Dongbin. I love to Join with the Dao, that's my Final goal, but for that i need the corresponding Methods too, also I am aware that becoming an indoor disciple requires significant dedication, commitment, and resources. My aspiration is to pursue this path with sincerity and respect for the tradition. While I understand the challenges and prerequisites involved, I am committed to investing the necessary time and effort to cultivate authentic understanding.

I fully acknowledge that true cultivation requires time, dedication, and significant commitment, and I respect the level of seriousness you emphasize. However, my goal is not only to become an indoor disciple at this stage, but to find the most authentic and effective way to study and practice Taoist teachings which will lead to enlightenment.

While I understand that high-level teachings often come with significant costs and prerequisites, I am open to exploring different avenues that align with my current situation. If you have any recommendations for authentic sources or experienced teachers who may be more accessible, I would sincerely appreciate your guidance

You should keep in mind that to study with WLP you have to:

- be fluent in Mandarin

- be ready to pay more than $5000 (cost of attending WLP's regular retreat)

- Understand that it will be up to WLP to determine your level of achievement, and he will teach you only based on his assessment of your level, not what you want to study

Regarding certified WLP's senior students - it is good to keep in mind that they will teach only what is approved by WLP himself and based on their personal level of achievement. And this will not necessarily align with your wishes.

10 minutes ago, Sinai said:

Thank you so much my friend, sure i will do that, but some said he isn't responding even withing his community, i wonder if they are correct, if so it would be a dead end, but i hope i will not

This is mostly correct. If you purchase Nathan's course(s), there is no guarantee that he will respond to any of your inquiries, even when asked in the private online community. Somebody will respond with a good and detailed response, but that person not necessarily will be Nathan.

8 hours ago, Daemon said:

 

Hello Sinai, (-:

 

Those "beautiful High-level practices" are actually always freely available to everyone and, according to Nathan Brine (The Taoist Alchemy of Wang Liping, Volume 1, Chapter 3):

 

 

Peace,

 

☮️

 

  Quote

it is not necessary to master neidan in order to return to the dao; it is merely helpful.

Return to the Dao means to become dead. Nobody need any neidan for that. This happens naturally.

3 hours ago, Antares said:

I can foresee the future. I see millions of practitioners receiving guidance, blessing and initiation from AI.

Is this the bright future?

This is exactly what is coming, and not only in the world of spiritual cultivation, but in all other spheres. As a minimum, AI's generated content will replace like 90% of all information we consume on regular basis. Largely because people will get too lazy to learn how to write and present themselves online, it will be cheaper/less effort to pay to the AI to do that.

More important question: is this really bad? Or is it just a version of 'plastic politics'?