Mark Foote

Like to thank snowymountains for the education, regarding modern therapy. I, like Taomeow and blue eyed snake, largely see Western medical science as only useful in cases requiring intervention. Chronic conditions appear to be largely beyond the capacity of Western medicine to treat effectively, although that may be changing with the new genetic science. The medical/pharceutical complex is real, and chronic conditions where a new medication must be taken for life are where the private research money goes. I've written about Dr. John Lee. One thing he commented on was the way that people put their faith in their doctors, in our society. He likened it to people in primitive cultures putting their faith in the witch doctor. A person might well die, if their witch doctor put a curse on them, and the same is true for Westerners and Western medicos. Another thing I've read. About 10% of Western medicos have reliable medical intuition and use it. They are witch doctors with a Western education, you could say. They have to be careful, not to get outed. I think I believe that. I've also read that the best intuition is the best-educated intuition, so I try to study up before I hit the ouija board.

Hopefully folks read my comments about progesterone, above. Dr. John Lee, who I mentioned, went around the country lecturing groups of women about the benefit of topical progesterone for treating osteoporosis among women who were at risk for ovarian or mammarian cancer. He tried educating the doctors, but because malpractice is defined as not doing what the rest of the doctors are doing (regardless of the science), he didn't have success with that. So, as he said, "I will educate the women, and they will educate their doctors." At the time I heard him speak (1995), hormone replacement therapy was all the rage, consisting primarily of estrogen. As Dr. Lee pointed out, when estrogen is not balanced with progesterone, there's a tendency for it to promote cancer. And in the northern hemisphere industrialized nations, progesterone production drops off in a woman at menopause, if not before (not so in some other parts of the world). Dr. Lee told a story about a husband and wife team of doctors in San Francisco (Dr. Lee had a family practice in Marin for 30 years). The husband would prescribe estrogen to a woman. Within a few years, the woman would develop ovarian cancer. The husband would refer them to his wife for the hysterectomy. They were making quite good money. You are right to be suspicious, Tao Meow--of course.

Sorry to be so late to the thread! My experience has been that physical actions of the body can take place without the exercise of will. Imagine, if you will, the body as the planchette of a ouija board with unseen hands guiding it, and you will have an idea of the experience I am describing. Or here's Buddhaghosa's description, the famous 5th century C.E. scholar: The air element that courses through all the limbs and has the characteristic of moving and distending, being founded upon earth, held together by water, and maintained by fire, distends this body. And this body, being distended by the latter kind of air, does not collapse, but stands erect, and being propelled by the other (motile) air, it shows intimation and it flexes and extends and it wriggles the hands and feet, doing so in the postures comprising of walking, standing, sitting and lying down. So this mechanism of elements carries on like a magic trick… (Buddhaghosa, “Visuddhimagga” XI, 92; tr. Bhikku Nanamoli, Buddhist Publication Society pg 360) You might think it was a form of auto-hypnosis, the power of suggestion, but there are peculiarities. Most strikingly, the action that takes place can be in accord with a future that was unknown at the time the action took place, as though things beyond the boundaries of the senses were at play in the action. For years after experiencing such action, I tried to always act through "the motile air", as Buddhaghosa put it. In the process, I discovered that what I believe can effect action in much the same way--without the direct exercise of volition, wriggling the hands and feet. What I understand from that is that it's very important to get the beliefs right, and to always be open to new facts and to science. Our beliefs become our actions, whether we will that to take place or not. To that extent, we are our beliefs.

Tommy Dorsey was pretty incredible, Buddhist teacher at S. F. Zen Center, former drag performer. He was very kind to me when I stayed at the Center for a week in '76. Ran into him at Hamburger Mary's once, asked him what he was doing there and he said, "oh, you know, burgers and drinks" or something to that effect (Mary's was a LGBTQ watering hole in '80's, in south of Market SF, and I lived in an apartment upstairs). I think he had a Buddhist rosary on, can't remember if it was around his wrist or his neck, but the juxtaposition of the Buddhist wear and the bar caused me to pose the question.

That would be progestins, then. Dr. Lee said that with the topical, the body will shut down absorption when it has enough. An advantage to the topical. I've spoken to a lot of people about topical progesterone. Only one of them said they didn't like the way it made them feel. The difficulty with estrogen is the way it promotes breast and ovarian cancer, that friend did suffer breast cancer a few years back. She's alright now. .

That's interesting! Were you using a topical, like Progest, or some other form of the hormone?

Late-comer to the thread. Thanks, Maddie, for putting yourself out there for our edification! Wanted to mention the third hormone. As Dr. John Lee used to say, "the chemical message of estrogen to cells is go forth, multiply, while the chemical message of progesterone is mature." Which makes unbalanced estrogen carcinogenic. Just saying, you could do worse than to look into topical progesterone--Dr. Lee worked with "Transitions for Health", a company owned and run by women in Oregon last I heard, to develop the progesterone cream the company sells as "Progest". I use it daily for three weeks out of the month, then break for a week, per the doc's instructions. Testosterone apparently doesn't really balance estrogen, or the doc wouldn't have recommended progesterone for men, which he did. By the way, the medicos all confuse progesterone with progestins, but progesterone is molecularly identical to human progesterone, and the progestins are a molecule or two different. That was done, the change by a molecule or two, to produce a compound that could be patented. Progestins have side effects, in the physician's desk reference, while progesterone does not. Available at your local Whole Foods. I cry at dog-food commercials, so what!!

I used to enjoy the comments and discussion on Brad Warner's posts, back in the time when he left the discussion open. Long ago. Mike also studied with Gudo. I haven't read their translation of Shobogenzo, but I did appreciate one part of their translation of Genjo Koan, to set up that one part, here's a piece of the translation by Paul Jaffe: When fish swim in the water, no matter how much they swim the water does not come to an end. When birds fly in the sky, no matter how much they fly, the sky does not come to an end. However, though fish and birds have never been apart from the water and the air, when the need is great the function is great; when the need is small the function is small. Likewise, it is not that at every moment they are not acting fully, not that they do not turn and move freely everywhere, but if a bird leaves the air, immediately it dies; if a fish leaves the water, immediately it dies. ... So, if there were a bird or fish that wanted to go through the sky or the water only after thoroughly investigating its limits, he would not attain his way nor find his place in the water or in the sky. If one attains this place, these daily activities manifest absolute reality. If one attains this Way, these daily activities are manifest absolute reality. (“Genjo Koan”, Dogen; tr. Paul Jaffe (1996), in Yasutani, Flowers Fall (Boston: Shambhala), 101-107) My comment on that, in my piece about Genjo Koan, was: I like the phrase “it is not that at every moment they are not acting fully, not that they do not turn and move freely everywhere”; Gudo Nishijima goes so far as to translate this as “each one realizes its limitations at every moment and each one somersaults [in complete freedom] at every place” (“Genjo Koan”, Dogen; tr. Gudo Wafu Nishijima, from “Understanding the Shobogenzo”, Windbell Publications 1992). One-pointedness, when attention is placed as a function of the movement of breath and can take place anywhere in the body--"somersaults [in complete freedom] at every place". As (one) abides in body contemplating body, either some bodily object arises, or bodily discomfort or drowsiness of mind scatters (one’s) thoughts abroad to externals. Thereupon… (one’s) attention should be directed to some pleasurable object of thought. As (one) thus directs it to some pleasurable object of thought, delight springs up in (one’s being). In (one), thus delighted, arises zest. Full of zest (one’s) body is calmed down. With body so calmed (one) experiences ease. The mind of one at ease is concentrated. (One) thus reflects: The aim on which I set my mind I have attained. Come, let me withdraw my mind [from pleasurable object of thought]. So (one) withdraws (one’s) mind therefrom, and neither starts nor carries on thought-process. Thus (one) is fully conscious: I am without thought initial or sustained. I am inwardly mindful. I am at ease. (Gautama repeats the above for “As (one) contemplates feelings in feelings…”, “… mind in mind…”, “… mind-states in mind-states, either some mental object arises, or…”) Such is the practice for the direction of mind. And what… is the practice for the non-direction of mind? (First,) by not directing (one’s) mind to externals, (one) is fully aware: My mind is not directed to externals. Then (one) is fully aware: My mind is not concentrated either on what is before or on what is behind, but it is set free, it is undirected. Then (one) is fully aware: In body contemplating body I abide, ardent, composed and mindful. I am at ease. And (one) does the same with regard to feelings… to mind… and mind-states. Thus (one) is fully aware: In mind-states contemplating mind-states I abide, ardent, composed and mindful. I am at ease. This is the practice for the non-direction of mind. (SN V 154-157, Pali Text Society SN V p 135-136) When I wrote about my approach, I was basically writing about my experience of the four arisings of mindfulness, the actionable elements of the thought applied and sustained by Gautama in the first concentration (marked by one-pointedness of mind): I begin with making the surrender of volition in activity related to the movement of breath the object of thought. For me, that necessitates thought applied and sustained with regard to relaxation of the activity of the body, with regard to the exercise of calm in the stretch of ligaments, with regard to the detachment of mind, and with regard to the presence of mind. I find that a presence of mind from one breath to the next can precipitate “one-pointedness of mind”, but laying hold of “one-pointedness of mind” requires a surrender of willful activity in the body much like falling asleep. (Response) The difficulty is in doing nothing, while simultaneously relaxing, calming, detaching, and "presenting". Gautama spoke of feelings of zest and ease that are simultaneous with one-pointedness--increasingly I find that I must attend to ease, in order to arrive at a moment when one-pointedness "somersaults [in complete freedom] at every place". I wrote recently about the "scales" I'm practicing these days, and I touched on how I arrive at a feeling of ease: Gautama spoke of suffusing the body with “zest and ease” in the first concentration: “… (a person) steeps, drenches, fills, and suffuses this body with zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease.” (AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III p 18-19; see also MN III 92-93, PTS p 132-1342) Words like “steeps” and “drenches” convey a sense of gravity, while the phrase “not one particle of the body that is not pervaded” speaks to the “one-pointedness” of attention, even as the body is suffused. If I can find a way to experience gravity in the placement of attention as the source of activity in my posture, and particular ligaments as the source of the reciprocity in that activity, then I have an ease. ("To Enjoy Our Life") Necessity is the mother of invention, but I find the Gautamid an invaluable resource. Guo Gu, amazing teacher. One thing I didn't say about finding ease (in the piece I quote from above) is that the sensation is like the feeling in the body coming out of sleep. That kind of ease. But ease gives way as the activity of the body comes out of the location of awareness alone, a one-pointed location that can shift and move--just sitting.

My understanding is that dokusan is a rare occurrence in Soto Zen in Japan. On the tin?

Love it, thanks stirling!

the cherry tree blooms and next to it, the apple celebrating spring

When I sit, I look for an experience of the placement of attention out of necessity. That necessity can come out of the breath, or out of a particular frailty in the structure of the lower spine in the movement of breath, or even from somewhere beyond the boundaries of the senses. Essentially, I am turning the light to look at the placement of awareness out of necessity, particularly as a sense of gravity fines the location of awareness to a point (a point that can shift and move). Regarding the mind--here's something from a post on my own site, entitled "What Shunryu Suzuki Actually Said": So, when you practice zazen, your mind should be concentrated in your breathing and this kind of activity is the fundamental activity of the universal being. If so, how you should use your mind is quite clear. Without this experience, or this practice, it is impossible to attain the absolute freedom. (“Thursday Morning Lectures”, November 4th 1965, Los Altos; emphasis added) The mind is “concentrated in the breathing” when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention. If the presence of mind continues the placement of attention by the movement of breath, then the role of the mind is clear–that’s the way I read the transcript. Suzuki ended his lecture by asserting that “without this experience, or this practice, it is impossible to attain the absolute freedom”. Gautama the Buddha also mentioned freedom, in the context of “the ceasing of action”: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society IV pg 85) ;lllllllll The action that could be expected to cease was a particular kind of action, the action of “determinate thought”: … I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III pg 294) I wrote about the “ceasing of action”... : A central theme of Gautama’s teaching was the cessation of “determinate thought” in action, meaning the cessation of the exercise of will or volition in action. A cessation of the exercise of will could be attained, said Gautama, through the induction of various successive states of concentration. As to the initial induction of concentration, Gautama declared that “making self-surrender the object of thought, one lays hold of concentration, one lays hold of one-pointedness of mind”. I begin with making the surrender of volition in activity related to the movement of breath the object of thought. For me, that necessitates thought applied and sustained with regard to relaxation of the activity of the body, with regard to the exercise of calm in the stretch of ligaments, with regard to the detachment of mind, and with regard to the presence of mind. I find that a presence of mind from one breath to the next can precipitate “one-pointedness of mind”, but laying hold of “one-pointedness of mind” requires a surrender of willful activity in the body much like falling asleep. (Response) When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom.

(I apologize for the dupe)

In one of his lectures, Shunryu Suzuki spoke about the difference between “preparatory practice” and “shikantaza”, or “just sitting”: But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”, Shunryu Suzuki; San Francisco, February 22, 1970; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki said that directing attention to the movement of breath (“following breathing… counting breathing”) has the feeling of “doing something”, and that “doing something” makes such practice only preparatory. Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention, as I wrote previously: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. ... Again, a [person], putting away ease… enters and abides in the fourth musing; seated, [one] suffuses [one’s] body with purity by the pureness of [one’s] mind so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded with purity by the pureness of [one’s] mind. (AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society III p 18-19, see also MN III Pali Text Society III p 92-93; bracketed material paraphrases original) “Pureness of mind” is what remains when “doing something” ceases. When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) Returning to your question, Vajra Fist, which I think is an excellent one--I would contend that what Gautama described as the "fourth musing" is shikantaza. Gautama often described four "musings" followed by "the survey-sign" of the concentration, a kind of overview of the body that followed the fourth musing. My impression is that he could use the survey-sign to recall the fourth musing as circumstances dictated. And I would contend that a person who becomes adept at returning to the first musing, and at recalling the fourth musing in a natural rhythm of mindfulness that takes place in the first musing, is generally considered enlightened. That's not the attainment that marked Gautama's enlightenment, however. That was Gautama's way of living. Gautama's enlightenment involved the further deliverances, four concentrations and the final cessation of "doing something" in actions of feeling and perceiving, the actions of the mind. So to answer your question: yes, to actually practice shikantaza requires an experience: When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom. (What Shunryu Suzuki Actually Said) The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something...” (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) but it's not the same as enlightenment. Passes for enlightenment often enough, though. Here’s Gautama, speaking about intervals of practice that can “develop mindfulness of death acutely”—the intervals are moments that call for a presence of mind with the placement of attention: …whoever develops mindfulness of death, thinking, ‘O, that I might live for the interval that it takes to swallow having chewed up one morsel of food… for the interval that it takes to breathe out after breathing in, or to breathe in after breathing out, that I might attend to the Blessed One’s instructions. I would have accomplished a great deal’ — they are said to dwell heedfully. They develop mindfulness of death acutely… (AN 6.19 PTS: A iii 303 p 218; Maranassati Sutta: Mindfulness of Death (1) tr Thanissaro Bhikkhu; “effluents” rendered as “cankers” in the PTS translation by F. L. Woodward) The presence of mind with the free placement of attention is shikantaza, provided there is "one-pointedness"--here’s a picture of Issho Fujita demonstrating “one-pointedness” at the Sonoma Mountain Zen Center:

I cleaned up my response to your question, Elysium, and posted the result on my site: Knees on the Ground A friend tells me he had some success doing exercises, but I've never had great luck that way.

truth veiled trickery top-down foolery--and yet, the cherry tree blooms

… free from the fervor of zest, (one) enters and abides in the third musing; (one) steeps and drenches and fills and suffuses this body with a zestless ease so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this zestless ease. … just as in a pond of blue, white, and red water-lillies, the plants are born in water, grow in water, come not out of the water, but, sunk in the depths, find nourishment, and from tip to root are steeped, drenched, filled and suffused with cold water so that not a part of them is not pervaded by cold water; even so, (one) steeps (one’s) body in zestless ease. (AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III p 18-19, see also MN III 92-93, PTS p 132-134) About Gautama’s analogy for the third state of concentration (white, red, and blue lotuses that never break the surface of a pond): I believe Gautama’s analogy refers to the balance of the legs, arms, and head around the place of occurrence of consciousness. The ox-herding picture of a flute-playing individual riding an ox similarly demonstrates the involvement of the limbs and the jaw with the weight and balance of the body, in the movement of breath.

Must be a lot of businesses that could use someone with computer skills, spread-sheet skills, statistical skills, which I'm guess you have. Maybe take a break and travel a bit, if you can afford it. The discouraging thing about the new digital age is the lack of personal contact in interviewing and hiring. Build your interpersonal networks, while you're in school. All just a guess on my part, I've been very fortunate and people have been very kind, and I've managed to get by in several capacities. The people are the main thing.

My cat just polished half the meat from a McDonald's double bacon cheeseburger. She loves that, and she's been off her feed lately, so I bought one for her.

"Upon abstracting (oneself) from (one's) physical body and from the outside world, (one) starts to identify, in the movement of (one's) breath, the physical automation that controls (their) life energy. (A person) continues like this until becoming a part of the air that (they) breath and reaching the understanding that (they themselves) only exist as consciousness, which is manifested as part of the autonomous mechanism of (their) breathing... ("Daoist Meditation: The Purification of the Heart Method of Meditation and Discourse on Sitting and Forgetting (Zuo Wang Lun) by Si Ma", Wu Jyh Cherng, p 28, emphasis added) In plain English: There can come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom. (What Shunryu Suzuki Actually Said)

Issho Fujita holds onto his hat, at Sonoma Mountain Zen Center:

Good question, and to my mind, that is exactly the topic. The presence of mind can utilize the location of attention to maintain the balance of the body and coordinate activity in the movement of breath, without a particularly conscious effort to do so. There can also come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) Any bent-knee posture held for a period of time will allow a witness. Then, it's just hold onto your hat: When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom. (What Shunryu Suzuki Actually Said) I practice now to experience the free placement of attention as the sole source of activity in the body in the movement of breath, and in my “complicated, difficult” daily life, I look for the mindfulness that allows me to touch on that freedom. (“To Enjoy Our Life”) The piece that you're missing is the fact that action can come out of the free location of awareness, without what Gautama called "determinate thought". That has to be experienced to be believed.

"Happier", maybe not, but happiness is intrinsic to the states of concentration, according to the Gautamid: I know that while my father, the Sakyan, was ploughing, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, I entered on the first meditation, which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness, and is rapturous and joyful, and while abiding therein, I thought: ‘Now could this be a way to awakening?’ Then, following on my mindfulness, Aggivissana, there was the consciousness: This is itself the Way to awakening. This occurred to me, Aggivissana: ‘Now, am I afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind?’ This occurred to me…: I am not afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind.’ (MN 1 246-247, Vol I p 301) Whatever happiness, whatever joy, Ananda, arises in consequence of these five strands of sense-pleasures, it is called happiness in sense-pleasures. Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’—this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, a [person], aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, enters and abides in the first meditation that is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness and is rapturous and joyful. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This [the first meditative state] is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’–this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by allaying initial and discursive thought, [their] mind inwardly tranquillised and fixed on one point, enters and abides in the second meditation which is devoid of initial and discursive thought, is born of concentration, and is rapturous and joyful. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and joyful than that happiness. Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus… And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by the fading out of rapture, abides with equanimity, attentive and clearly conscious, and [they] experience in [their] person that happiness of which the [noble ones] say: ‘Joyful lives [the one] who has equanimity and is mindful’. And entering on the third meditation [they] abide in it. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus… And what, Ananda is the other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, [an individual], by getting rid of happiness and by getting rid of anguish, by the going down of [their] former pleasures and sorrows, enters and abides in the fourth meditation which has neither anguish nor happiness, and which is entirely purified by equanimity and mindfulness. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. “Whoever, Ananda, should speak thus: ‘This [the fourth meditative state] is the highest happiness and joy that creatures experience’-this I cannot allow on [their] part. What is the reason for this? There is, Ananda, another happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. And what, Ananda, is this other happiness more excellent and exquisite than that happiness? Here, Ananda, a [person], by wholly transcending perceptions of material shapes, by the going down of perceptions due to sensory impressions, by not attending to perceptions of difference, thinking: “Ether is unending’, enters and abides in the plane of infinite ether. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness. …[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of infinite ether and thinking: ‘Consciousness is unending’, enters and abides in the plane of infinite consciousness… …[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of infinite consciousness, and thinking: ‘There is no thing’. enters and abides in the plane of no-thing… …[a person]. by wholly transcending the plane of no-thing, enters and abides in the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception. …[a person], by wholly transcending the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception. enters and abides in the stopping of perceiving and feeling. This, Ananda, is the other happiness that is more excellent and exquisite than that happiness.” (MN I 398-400, Vol II p 67-69) “…What do you think about this, reverend Jain: Is King Seniya Bimbisara of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for seven nights and days?” “No, your reverence.” “What do you think about this, reverend Jain: Is King Seniya Bimbisara of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for six nights and days, for five, for four, for three, for two nights and days, for one night and day?” “No, your reverence.” “But I, reverend Jain, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for one night and day. I, reverend Jain, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for two nights and days,, for three, four, five, six, for seven nights and days.” (MN I 94, Vol I p 123-124) Gautama also said that whatever one imagines a particular state of concentration to be, it is otherwise, and that the states are attained by "lack of desire, by means of lack of desire". Strange!

We can end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the universe! Obi-wan never told you, what happened to those vegetables...

It must have been love or, it must have been moonglow, way up in the blue