effilang

Oh my, look who who couldn't resist to come back again, what a surprise.

 

Anyway.... 

I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the new Dao Yu, recently initiated in September 2017, in Kuala Lumpur - and share some photos.

 

It is the first event we've ever held in Malaysia since our school went public and began sharing Xiantian Dao Yin Shu openly.

 

We had 50 new initiates formally accepted into the heavenly register and officially granted Hu Fa Shen under Xiao Yao Pai, by authority of Tai Shang Lao Jun. They can now all go home, invite their Hu Fa Shen and practice in the leisure of their own homes.

 

As usual the initiation took place over a period of two days and was held in the breathtaking Chin Swee Temple.

Almost all of the 50 initiates were able to establish a strong connection with their new teachers and began to interact with them on the first day, while others in the days that followed.

People often ask, why is it that unlike many other schools of Daoism, Xiao Yao Pai does not offer a lineage chart?

 

Regards,

Xuan Daoji

 

54 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Bad mouth is what you do, I try to stick to facts and explain myself factually and logically, showing where there is deep misguidance and misunderstanding. That is not slander nor bad mouthing it is looking at what is going on based on what I have been taught and what I have experienced while I was in Malaysia of other Daoist spiritual systems and the common theme that runs through such practices in every culture that practices spiritual arts. Your school does not tick many boxes according to research and tradition throughout the world and is more like one of these mixed up Indian cults where a person or people such as you, canvas forums to gain more members and lets face it that's what you are doing here, you rarely make any contribution to any other part of this forum. You say your teacher is Tai Sung, yet you have never appeared at his teachings section or commented. Tai Sung is of course only known for his monumental work. Tai Sung is my teacher so I am there all the time. Why aren't you?

 

James Randy has exposed so many frauds, do you think he is slanderous? He just uses facts and his vast experience to expose these people. So do I, that's not slander, you need to grasp a better use of English. My school do not advertise, I rarely put down anything about the school and because I no longer live in Malaysia I have no contact with the rest of all the temples and its people. There is no hierarchy, any one can go into a temple and beg the Immortal master to teach them and that is the case for all the temples of any Immortals. If you can find fault with anything that I practice then it is your prerogative to say so, it is not slander, you would be expressing an opinion whether educated or not, which is what I have done. But you have taken exception to that because what I have said had shown some very big questions about what you do. I don't canvas on TDB's for students, or have a Facebook page and like my teacher says in his philosophy "followers of the Dao don't make a show". I just try and help guide people in a way that will be genuine that will make some sense to them; there are enough lost souls in this world without creating more.

 

What I meant by I don't understand you, is that anyone who is taught by Immortals would not act and say the things that you did. I don't know you from Adam so I have not commented on you as a person only on what you have been saying and what you have shown. Your likes and dislikes are of no concern of mine and are transient.

But I know that;

The Immortals don't like people who show a snide side to them, who will actively torture and bait someone and bad mouth them and then say, but remember you've got to keep your word and not defend yourself and if you do, look you've broken your word, ha ha he he.

 

 Cunning that is and bad hearted behaviour.

 

That's very telling and this would not come from someone who is taught by Immortals.

 

 

It may not be legally slanderous, SFH, but it sure as hell is libellous defamation - and let me remind you that when you say things to and officially damage a person or an organisation's reputation, if you can't offer objective evidence to substantiate your accusations, you leave yourself wide open for a defamation lawsuit.

 

I would probably take a little more care when making damaging defamatory claims against an organisation, when you don't have any evidence that would stand in court.

 

Finally, for the nth time; I'm not interested in you or your life, so you can stop coming back here and telling me about yourself and what you do. I really don't honestly care.

You already made a separate thread specifically aimed at defaming our school, yet you still come here to do the very same, because I don't engage with you there. You love attention, pure and simple - if that wasn't the case, you would have accepted my invitation for a meeting by now to come and test your claims, which I've said I will record for evidence; or by now, you would have provided objective evidence to support your claim that the head of our school isn't Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

You have failed to do both.

 

If I go through all your posts on this thread and make a list of all the damaging claims you've made against us, without providing any evidence, I think you're going to realise just how far you've dug yourself in, Sir.

22 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Effilang I can't understand you, you write all this stuff in answer to me and yet you bait me and poke fun and nastiness and this has been your way all along. 

 

 

Ok, let me try to help you understand me, in very basic terms;

 

1. I don't like people who make accusations without offering objective proof.

2. I don't like people who act as if they are entitled to respect, recognition and authority and sit on a high horse.

3. I don't like people who ceaselessly try to force their own experiences and beliefs onto others, while negating others' value and authenticity.

4. I don't like people who don't keep their word, as in your case, you keep coming back to this thread to repeat the same thing over and over, after saying you won't.

 

You tick all those boxes for me.

 

If I poke fun and nastiness, it is because you created those nasty things that I am poking at, out of your own personal desire to slander myself and my school, so you only have yourself to thank for that.

 

In all our exchanges, I have never once attacked your beliefs, your experiences or your methods, even when you claim to study under Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

Have you ever wondered why that is? Have you ever wondered why in all this time that you've slandered and tried to bad mouth myself and my school that I've never once retaliated in a similar fashion and attacked your school or your experiences or claims?

 

Let's leave it a mystery. It's a lot more interesting that way : )

In terms of respect; I give it where it is shown.
You have not shown it to me, so do not expect it in return.

On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

Immortals are beyond 'showy' things and would not make such an exhibition. The basis of their principles are that of humbleness and definitely not making a show. The Chan hand is not part of the Daoist remit. I have never been taught this, even though one of my masters is a Buddha (Chi Tien Da Shen). Over the thirty five years of teaching me many styles of martial art, this has never occurred even in one style that came from Shaolin that he taught me. The Chan hand is relatively a new hand development.

 

Ah... but Effilang has chosen not to value my communication or my opinion, by dissolving any posts that were incriminating to his end. It was he who decided of his own free will to delete a pm unread, that I sent him and banning any communication from me. I said in this pm that I would not post anymore on his thread. But he deliberately devalued the communication between us, so he left me with no choice, but to continue till my point was made and recognised.

 

I, as the head of my sect,  have not the slightest interest in Effilang or his school, or what he and his school wish to believe and practice, it is up to them. But when my teacher tells me that he has nothing to do with this school and like many, it is only in name, I have the duty to defend my teachers good name and reputation. He is one of the highest Immortals in the Heavens and he just can't be ordered around and simply be made to take on new students because he is told to, like some dumb servant. That is simply senseless  and against thousands of years of tried and tested traditional training and teaching. No human Sifu worth their weight would do so, so why would an Immortal of such great standing act like a dumb idiot?

 

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

In reality, every Shen Xian has their own personality; just like we have different characters as human. We are all unique. You will not lose your personality through spiritual cultivation; this is something most people are often concerned about when they begin practice. Your emotions will not disappear, neither will your ability to feel and express them. What happens as a result of good practice, briefly put, is that our emotions stop being in control of us, while simultaneously; powerful emotions like anger, jealousy and hatred are progressively dissolved through the accumulation of wisdom, compassion and the cultivation of self responsibility and karmic intelligence. All these processes and more, take place as a product of internal cultivation.

 

The immortals we work with in Xiao Yao Pai, are not beyond everything; on the contrary, they have cultivated to the point where they are everything, or nothing, depending on what they wish to experience. Therefore in our tradition, you will find that our Hu Fa Shen, can be funny and humorous, stern and strict, they experience joy and love - and can even be martially assertive if we are under attack.

 

Our school is called "Xiao Yao", because this is the primary characteristic that is expressed by those whom have been practising for some time. Every Dao Yu (initiated) becomes more "Xiao Yao" as their practice progresses. If you can connect to the spiritual head of our school; Tai Shang Lao Jun, the first thing you will feel is his cheerful, easy going, carefree and happy energy; it almost feels like a warm and innocent childlike joy.

 

One of my teachers, Immortal Jiu Tian Xuan Niu, often dances gracefully during my practice sessions with her; her beautiful dancing might also be considered "showy", but that would only be because they fail to understand the energy of the "Xiao Yao" concept that permeates the entire heritage of our tradition.

 

If an immortal from our school therefore wanted to dance, or perform a flashy form, make jokes, demonstrate compassion, humour, distaste or even be grumpy; they can : )

 

The level that our teachers are at, allows them to be or express whatever they wish. Why? Because they have transcended notions of showyness and exhibitionism; and overcome the human mindset that would have them worry about how others perceive their actions when they chose to act. No, when our teachers want to express something, they do it.

The ability to express one's self in such a way, is also a type of power. Perhaps not the sort of power most people look for, but one that we hold in high regard in our school; it is the manifest power of the concept of "Xiao Yao", acquired by the transcendence of the mundane mind, that is responsible for inhibiting the unabridged expression of the limitless divine "wholy" spirit; Yuan Shen.

 

I can confidently say, that if anyone works with a spirit which worries about how they will be perceived or criticised, especially by the likes of a human; is dealing with spirits that have not yet grown into the mind of the Dao or acquired the wisdom of non-dualistic existence. Be weary of such teachers for they are likely with you entirely out of personal interests.

 

Furthermore, like Mudfoot mentioned, I specifically made a request to my Hu Fa Shen, Jin Xiao Fa, to move me more during that session in a way that was, yes, more showy; as the video was created as a demonstration of the level of interactivity and physicality achievable through a connection to an Immortal while practising Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

What a lot of people don't know is that one of my primary objectives here in the West, is the marriage of Spiritual Cultivation with Natural Sciences.

My aim in this lifetime and very much so in the next decade, is to create a bridge between the two fields and usher in a new era of possibilities in the investigation and examination of non-physical and multidimensional energetic phenomena, currently undetectable by modern day instruments.

 

This is one of the first times in our history that, a method for the direct experience and empirical observation of spiritual phenomena has become available, and I very much intend to make certain that this opportunity will become an integral part of scientific endeavours in the fields of quantum physics, ontological research, spiritual intelligence, natural sciences, and an integral part in the collective evolution of humanity.

 

We are making great progress already. I don't have the words to explain to you what it feels like to meet devout atheists, passionate monotheistic followers, and modern day graduates in the fields of Physics, Psychology, Medicine, Engineering and Biology - and then have the pleasure of watching them connect to one of our school's Shen Xian and experience the rewiring of their belief systems in real-time as their body and energy begins to be moved and guided by their Hu Fa Shen. It's life and belief altering.

 

We are literally, right now, working to and promoting the spiritual evolution of human kind through a reproducible, experience-based tool, that is Xiantian Dao Yin Shu - and from it generating wide spread consensus experiences that can be corroborated by large groups of individuals, regardless of association, creed, belief system and so forth.

 

Then I come here, to this thread, and I see some people beating their chests and professing their academic superiority, claiming exclusivity and entitlement and making accusations and allegations without offering any proof - and honestly guys, I just fucking take a deep breath and sigh.

 

As I've always said, to each their own, BUT don't come here trying to push your agenda and your experiences on me; I do not accept them, I have made that clear numerous times, but despite that, unlike you, I do not visit other people's threads to make accusations and relentlessly attempt to hammer in my own experiences. If you have your own views and experiences, keep them, they are yours. Mine are different and I do not agree with yours, and since you fail to provide any objective proof of your statements during every one of your tantrums; I will always just consider you a troll with an inability to control himself. And like I told you, a long, long, long, long time ago, SFH. I'm genuinely not interested in you or what you have to say anymore and particularly not in the way you say it. Yeah, that also means don't send me PM's and harass me.

 

Now, and this wasn't something I was going to reply to, because I just figured I would let you ferment in your ignorance, but alas, there's one thing I hate more than ignorance and it's misinforming the masses, knowingly or unknowingly - so I'm going to answer your question about what you refer to as "One Finger Zen Palm".

 

In the years that I've had the displeasure of communicating with you, I've noticed a trend; your mind is very much tied up in concepts; that is, superficial names, ideas and symbols that correspond to unified energetic laws of nature that are independent of human conceptualisation. So for the sake of education, let's do a simple exercise in mental purgation, like I often have to do with new candidates. Let's examine the following concept; "One Finger Zen Palm":

 

The origin of the concept may or may not be attributed to a certain group of people ie Buddhists - that is still a matter of debate; although we do know they certainly popularised it.

 

Now, let's remove the concept and it's corresponding association to Zen. 

What are we left with? - We are left with, "One Finger Palm".

 

Can "One Finger Palm" still carry out it's underlying energetic purpose if it's not "Zen" anymore? - It sure can.

 

Why? - Because the foundational basis for the movement and interplay of our body's internal energy is not dictated by mental concepts. Yes, mental concepts can affect our energy and vice-versa, but they are not responsible for the basic blueprint that determines how certain qualities and types of energy move in the body and through which mediums they express themselves. What dictates that is a product of natural evolution.

 

What is the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" in human cultivation: the underlying purpose of "One Finger Palm" is to stimulate, focus, energise and tonify our body's energy through the employment of finger and palm configurations that form a hand seal.

 

A hand seal or mudra can be employed by any human being to modify the energy within their body's electromagnetic channel network and they have been in use by the Taoist clans and schools, both public and private - for a very long time. It doesn't matter what your race is or what belief you subscribe to, or if you're Zen, Taoist, Christian or Muslim. Those are man made concepts, that come after the energetic formation of the viscera and energetic architecture of the body, at a time when the conceptual mind has no power to create any of these dualistic notions you speak of.

 

In energy work to do with the human body, as well as in, would you know it; Taoism - the creases on the fingers can be activated by touching them with the thumb or bending the fingers which directly affect the corresponding energetic fields in the body. Similarly extending particular fingers will, among other things, stimulate the energy in the corresponding meridian and organ to manifest an intended effect.

 

It doesn't matter what concepts you have in your head, that prevent you from seeing things from a greater perspective beyond your own experiences, when it comes to the energetic processes of the body, no one school or people have exclusivity, not you, not Taoism, not Buddhism. This is a human practice.

 

Someone who claims to have been practising for 35 years, should know this stuff. It is elementary esoteric Taoism.

 

The level at which our Hu Fa Shen, are allows them to operate beyond these restricting concepts, which again seem to be the root of most of your limiting and self defeating beliefs.

 

When they interact with a Dao Yu (initiated) during the course of a Liangong (cultivation practice); they don't look at you as a Buddhist, or a Christian, or a Muslim or a Taoist; they go deeper and interface directly with the basal energy of the student in order to bring about internal change - and when necessary for those possessing a mind that has been made rigid and heavy by emotions and concepts; they either use lessons throughout the day to target specific limiting beliefs and refine them in order to bring about wisdom, or occasionally, directly interact with the sense based energy cluster to release the negative concepts and bring about a state of naturalness and tranquility.

 

I really wish onto you that you will learn to look beyond the well of your own experiences to realise that there is an endless sea around you.

Perhaps even your sense of exclusivity, entitlement and authority may be a test on your path.

 

Good luck to you with that work - and as I have said before, If you ever want to put your money where your mouth is, I invite you to one of our initiations, where you can test your power and your beliefs against ours. I will be happy to record it and post it on here for free. Or, you know, you can just continue with your MO here and make unsubstantiated claims and accusations without ever providing any credible or verifiable objective proof. If you choose to the the latter, please make a thread elsewhere and litter it with as much of your sentiment as fills your heart, but kindly stop coming on my thread and regurgitating the same stuff over and over again. You're a grown man, have some dignity..

Oh, wait, you did make that thread already, if I recall. I guess nobody was paying you attention there.

 

On 09/09/2017 at 1:31 PM, flowing hands said:

So this is my last words on the subject.

 

I've heard that before, several times actually, but you keep coming back.

Let's see if you're a man of your word and actually have the dignity to follow through this time.

 

PS: For the record, If anyone wants to ask me anything about Xiao Yao Pai, you can ask me here, no need to PM me.

SFH. Give it a rest if you have any dignity at all.

 

For the nth time, I'm genuinely not interested in your propaganda.

 

If you want to put your money where your mouth is,  and prove to everyone here that we are a fake, then I invite you to our next initiation where you can conduct your investigation and if you like, even test your power against ours - if it pleases you. I have good HD digital recording equipment and will be happy to document the whole thing to present it here as evidence for public viewing.

 

If you give me ample time, I will even fundraise your ticket and or visa fees to accommodate you to carry out an official investigation.

Until you accept that invitation and demonstrate a willingness to backup your empty talk; you're just a forum troll to me with zero integrity.

 

Have a pleasant evening.

13 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

No not at all fella, you basically have been immoral, you deleted my posts.

 

No I haven't. I was within my right to delete your posts and the administration of the website supported me in my actions. You are wilfully being ignorant to serve your false narratives. I'm sorry that you're butthurt, but If you have or had a problem with it, which apparently you still do, you can discuss it with them.

 

Quote

because I showed that what you were doing could not be from the source that you claim and then I discover that you are boasting about the fact that I showed you up and your mixed bag of shen gong, with Buddhist hands and other techniques that were not even the slightest bit Daoist and certainly an originator like Tai Sung would not use these, as these were well after his time and then say that I took a 1970's swing at you and failed

 

This is all very nice, but anyone with half a brain who reads my posts above and follows the thread you started and my reply to it, can make up their own minds.

 

Quote

I'm afraid it is you who has failed, you have more importantly failed to impress me the student of Tai Sung Lao Jun who has received his teachings for over thirty five years. I know what he teaches and how he teaches and what his system is and it is not some mixed bag of tricks that has been borrowed from other religions and other practices.

 

More importantly, LOL?!

Come down from your high horse, Sir. - I have no interest in you, beyond protecting the reputation of my school.

 

Quote

Either take it or shut up whinging.

 

That is abusive. No, I will not accept your experiences as law and "shutup".

You're just going to have to learn to live with that.

 

Toodles.

On 2017-8-12 at 1:30 PM, flowing hands said:

I have swung but you have no solid answers.

 

FlowingHands, didn't you declare in former posts here that you were not coming back to this thread, several times? - Yet you are here again, trolling, misleading others and trying to set up shop here again with a platform to launch attacks and make baseless and unsubstantiated accusations?

 

You can't stop yourself can you?

 

For someone who proclaims to be so well versed in Daoism, you really lack restraint and morals.

If I wasn't sure that you were a troll before, I'm convinced of it now through your last post - more than ever.

 

Here is why:

You started an independent thread with the purpose of making libellous pronouncements against the origins of our school and attempted to substantiate the accusation that our tradition is a result of Mao's cultural revolution, placing us under the umbrella of many unauthentic arts. You fell flat on your face with your arguments; yet you are here now saying that, I had no solid answers? - Sorry, SFH - I only had the truth.

 

As I can see from what is left of your pontificated thread, you've conveniently deleted most of your posts; yet you talk to me about solidity?

And let me quote you further from your own and very same thread, after I refuted your accusations in a post on this thread which you can read here:

 

Quote

Posted November 18, 2016 by FlowingHands

I might have misread Xia Yao Pai site as it was not coming up full screen, but what I could gleen was that it was after the CR that the teacher decided to teach, but it did not verify whether he came from China or was in Indonesia before this. So I could be wrong about this. I am sure Effilang could put me right.

Honestly fella, you're starting to look desperate, have some dignity.

Haven't we had enough of this admins?

 

9 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Any news of an initiation in the UK this year?

 

Hi Vajra, 

 

We're focusing a little more on Asia this year (Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia),  but I'm going to start making plans for 2018 UK/US soon. 

 

I always make sure to give minimum 3-6 months notice. I'll post any relevant announcements here FYI. 

 

Regards,

Xuan

 

 

Are yin and yang real?

 

Only when we think about it : )

The cultivation of jing is said to bring a practitioner to a state where there are no more dreams.

 

***No more bad dreams or nightmares as the Yin aspects have been refined completely, but still nice dreams : )

You can sense it as practice progresses. The dreams become more and more pleasant and more and more lucid.

Please don't hesitate to ask again if you have some questions unanswered. Sometimes spam comes from some members and valuable messages may be lost inside.

 

1) About "showing" - please see my answer above.

2) However there are demonstartions from high-level Brothers and Teachers but each demonstration comes only after you reache certain stage.

3) So you say in Yin-Yang world everything comes to its end. I would say differently: the "end" violates Yin-Yang law. 

4) However becomming immortal means a person overcomes Yin-Yang law, see http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42984-yangshen-perspectives-in-traditional-schools/

5) Hair can become black because of: hair dye, some kind of temporary medical therapy... or going back to youth. Please don't forget hair is only a sign of the result, not the result itself.

 

And finally to your main question - how can xiantian and houtian be connected? Easily: a human spread yuanqi to live and do deeds in the outer world. So the connection exists.

In Alchemy we use the reversed process to collect back yuanqi and become Xian (immortal).

 

Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

 

Thanks, AAK, but you again didn't answer my main question. Here is some background.

 

 

Wuliu Pai, as other schools, claim to develop physical immortality and AAK recently stated that the physical body which is houtian jing, qi and shen is converted to Yang Shen; essentially going against what a lot of the Daoist literature claims; in that the postnatal cannot generate the prenatal.

 

So I'd like to ask a very fundamental question and simple question once again, not only to Wuliu Pai, but to all schools who claim that the impermanent physical body can be absorbed into and converted to Yang Shen, so that there is no longer a dying body present, but only the undying immortal body - or that the physical body can be made to last forever (immortality).

 

AAK claimed that they age in reverse and get younger instead of older, never get sick and escape death.

 

Wuliu Pai from my understanding is around 500 years old, again, please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not familiar with your history. In this time, could we safely assume that you may have had at least 250 students, on the basis of around a 100 years of life with 50 students per century? - Maybe you have more students, maybe less. I am just using this as a crutch to illustrate my point.

 

And here is my question:

 

- If physical immortality is a part of your tradition, and you claim you get younger and escape death, can you direct us to any one of your masters or their masters who are still alive today and were not buried or cremated, as a testament to this achievement?

 

In relation to your other statements. I'll go by the numbers and share my ideas:

 

1. I'll have a look at that.

 

2. That's very convenient wouldn't you say? This way only people from inside your school can confirm it, its very biased.

 

3. Yes, naturally it's the nature of Yin and Yang, and it is evident in the Taijitu. I'm sure you already know this, but for the sake of making my point I'll say it. When Yang reaches its height Yin is born and vice versa. All things that are products of Taiji and the 5 elements are thus impermanent. They all naturally succumb to aging, death and decay; and their post-natal physical energy simple recycles itself based on the law of conservation of energy. The higher aspects of the Yuan Shen are not a Taiji energy and this is what we cultivate in Neidan. So in terms of the temporary partnership of Taiji (physical body) and Wuji aspects (immaterial spirit); yes there is the death of that which was the composite human being. Independently of each other, the Taiji energy is recycled continuously while being transformed into other forms of energy, while the Wuji aspects continue in their own respect. From such a perspective nothing ever really dies, but I'm not talking about that when I refer to physical immortality; rather I'm talking about a human being as one integrated and fully functioning unit. That is the idea of physical immortality. So to say that THAT ages, dies and decays, is certainly not a violation of Taiji, but evidence of its law which is reflected in the life cycle of every being born in Taiji through a natural birth.

 

4. It is not a persons physical body that overcomes Yin and Yang, but a person's cultivated immaterial body and soul. Again if you do not subscribe to this, then please let us know which one of your masters wasn't buried or cremated. That will be evidence enough I think. Otherwise we have to assume this is simply something you talk about in your school, but nobody has ever achieved in the last 500 years?

 

5. I didn't forget, that's what I also said a few posts back : )

Happy New Year to everyone! 

 

May the upcoming year of the Fire Rooster, galantly grace your goals and ambitions

and bring you much luck, health, prosperity and love. Tai Shang Bao Yu! : )

 

 

It is not difficult to practise soul awakening method; one only has to find a clean and bright place. He/She will need to sit with his/her back straight on a chair and with both hands in clasping/prayer position.

 

We can practise XTDYS anywhere, anytime. The place does not matter.

 

After that one only needs to pray for his/her patron gods/goddesses to help. It is also advisable to do a silent rhythm chant such as “o-mi-to-fo” etc. continuously as if in meditation for an hour or so.

 

We don't chant in our school. That triggers the Shi Shen.

This is counterproductive to XTDYS.

 

Some people will feel his/her hands shaking at first and gradually dance or perform martial arts stunts.

Proponents say the patron spirits are guiding the practitioners but I would not want to comment.

 

I wouldn't want to comment either : )

 

·         A healthier body and mind

·         Obtain psychic powers

·         Foundation for other higher practices

 

We don't have another practice other than XTDYS.

 

The purpose of soul awakening exercise is to achieve self mastery on one’s soul. However, if one’s mind is not strong and other external spirits took control, then he/she may become a spirit medium instead. Once this situation happens, this person will never be able to spirits from possessing his/her body.

 

Not possible in our system. I've explained why on many occasions before and in extensive detail.

Please search through my posts.

 

This is for now, I have some more opinions and highly interesting findings related to origin of the school its practice and why they belive it is superior to Nei Dan, which I am to post another time.

 

I've never said that Xiantian Neidan is superior. It is however different.

 

How about you maybe stop with the opinions and trying to defame and smear our name and actually present some facts, instead of just beliefs?

 

I hope that XYP members are not to get me wrong because I personaly dont have anything against XYP but contrary I am interested in their method which maybe I am to try some day.

 

Of course I am getting you WRONG, everything you pretty much said IS, WRONG in relation to our school, so how about stop with the presumptions until you actually have some verifiable experience?

 

Either you are an official member of our school and have been educated properly or you are not part of our school and have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to our art. It can't be both....

 

I don't understand the mentality of people who have not experienced something, talking about it as if they have. Can someone explain the logic?

So how is to fuse Yin Shen with Yuan Jing and Yuan Qi precisly if you neglect to replenish it?

 

Maybe have a read of these:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/?p=725813

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42854-about-necessity-of-having-a-true-teacher/?p=727871

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42854-about-necessity-of-having-a-true-teacher/?p=727858

 

XYP work on Shen and from Shen go in natural wordly way to Qi and Jing,and we all know what classic say that true way is reversal and not wordly way of manifestation.

 

Buddy, for someone who is relying solely on supposition here, I wouldn't speak so matter of factly.

Let me put you straight.

 

You say you have read all I've written, but you didn't pay much attention.

 

When we trigger our Yuan Shen, we begin to move into Wuji, but the primordial Qi which Hu Fa Shen bridges to us also steps down to nourish our Qi and Jing. It all happens simultaneously.

 

Working on Shen only with no Yuan Qi to fuse you made just Yin Shen. Yang Shen is made from yang and this yang come from Ming Gong so again contradiction by western members interpretation and I belive Indonesian Masters dont claim that Dao Yin Shu is Xian Tian, nor that XYP work Nei Dan nor that it form Yang Shen. 

 

You believe, you believe, you believe.... where is the actual proof?

We develop both Ming and Xing in XTDYS and Yang Shen. Please read up on my posts, I'm too lazy to repeat myself.

 

Please tell me who these Indonesian masters are so that I can have a word with them...

 

Maybe we can see original books of the school and  how they explain its doctrine?

 

We don't have a doctrine or dogma. Anything that is written in a book is just an opinion to us until we can prove it ourselves.

We carry out this investigation and motion towards proof by practising directly with different Hu Fa Shen and learning from them.

 

If you believe so STRONGLY in what another man wrote in a book several thousand years ago, that you use it as a yard stick for everything, how will you ever be able to exercise discretion in the presence of a Xian? 

 

You will fail immediately, because you put these figures on a pedestal.

 

Our Hu Fa Shen are always testing us and pushing us to cultivate our wisdom. You have to challenge Hu Fa Shen and learn and not simply take the information they give us as true, because they are Xian. This is antithetical to our ethos which emphasises the development of Wu.

 

We must develop our OWN wisdom and not follow the wisdom of others, whether they are dead or alive or immortal.

 

More about our relationship to HFS:

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=719356

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=719251

 

Because XYP is manifested in the world in 1970, this time is interesting because in that time also we see Mo Pai who also have similar practices and it also dont show lineage nor history and it is on Indonesia to. What I find interesting is that such practices are more close to Tenaga Dalam (Tridaya) from Indonesia to which is added Daoist history of origin. In modern Indonesia mostly Muslims work Ilmu Khodan and Tenaga Dalam (Tridaya).

 

Well you'll be happy to know that our Tao Yu are Daoists by practice and not Muslims.

Our initiation is similar to a baptism in Christianity if you will, so one officially becomes a Daoist under Taishang Laojun after they have been initiated. 

 

And a human body getting possessed by a pigs spirit? Really?

The Hun and Po configuration of an animal and that of a human are different.

The human spirit has additional aspects which that of an animal lacks that would prevent such a possession...

 

Further, Tridaya has nothing to do with Xiao Yao Pai.

 

Here's is a little about possessions, spirits, Yang Shen and all that.

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42657-why-do-you-say-school/?p=723714

 

A member called FlowingHands already tried to take a swing at us with the 1970s angle and failed:

Here is more on that: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42512-xiao-yao-pai-and-other-arts-from-china/

 

My reply to those claims here: 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/?p=720068

 

To better explain how it is similar here I am to post one ritual which I think is pretty similar to XYP initiation ceremony:

 

Ok, lets have a look at these "similarities".

 

There are many theories concerning this art, the gist of it is that when we are alive; our soul are imprisoned within the body. Our soul could be awaken and released from our body through prayer and the help of higher spiritual forces. Otherwise, this would be quite impossible when a person is still alive.

 

In XYP we don't consider the soul to a be a prisoner of the body. This is a preposterous notion to us.

The soul is already awake and it cannot simply be released after it is as you say "awakened", it first needs a body; Yang Shen with which to become one; a body that can exist in Wuji.

 

So this has nothing to do with our school.

 

Prerequisites

 

·         One must be healthy.

·         One must be kind hearted.

·         One must be knowledgeable: not follow things blindly.

·         One must not be too engrossed in supernatural things.

·         One must be persistent, calm, fair and doing thing step wise.

 

We do not have such pre-requisites. One must simply be.

XYP dont provide its history and lineage which is important. They say this is not important because they are Celestial lineage. Ahhh all are Celestial even Tian Shi Pai, Shang Qing Pai and Zhong Lu Pai....and many others who all give detailed lineage.

 

Important to who?

How come our initiated students are practising, communicating with their Hu Fa Shen and making progress if it's important?

 

It's only important to those to whom it is important. To us it's not : )

We don't rely on the past, we rely on what we can do right now in the present and for that we have Xiantian Daoyin Shu and our initiation.

 

Those that cannot prove their art in the present, fall back on the words of the dead masters from the past to legitimate themselves...

 

Back in the day when most of the spiritual schools were under secrecy, students had to take an oath not to reveal the names of their masters. It was common for students under the same master to not know one another. So, we have no value in our tradition on finding out who was whose master. We are only concerned with whether the person we are learning from NOW, can actually help us in our progress. One more reason this matters even less, is that our education is received from our assigned Hu Fa Shen and not a human teacher.

 

My Hu Fa Shen is Jin Xiao Fa.

Now that you know, how does it help you? Can you find him?

 

Every school has it's way, we have ours.

We do not force anyone to learn from us. Those that are interested come and learn and benefit. That's it.

 

I'm actually only concerned with those that already walk through the door.

The other ones take too much of my time : )

 

XYP have Grand Master and other Master initiators so this are real people who initiate and this mean lineage, but they prefere to forgett this and say important is teacher and thus Hu Fa Shen who changed name because before it was called Fu Fak Shen.

 

The person who initiates you is not the one who teaches you.

So your teacher is your assigned Shen Xian or Tian Xian.

You can become initiated, then never meet your initiator again, you will progress just as well.

 

Fu Fak Shen IS Hu Fa Shen IS Fu Fa Shen.... SIGH*

You're grasping at straws buddy...

 

Regarding Fu Fak Shen I dont belive it is Yang Shen, beacuse this means that there are some 140.000 + Xians who teach. Do you think it is posible?

 

Of course it's possible. It is not only possible, it is that way, however you're misinformed here yet again.

Our Hu Fa Shen are Yang Shen, which means they can multiply their bodies infinitely.

 

One Hu Fa Shen can have countless students. It is the nature of Yang Shen.

 

I cant be sure that it is even Yin Shen, but others told me this can be case, which is more probable.

 

You won't know till you find out for yourself.

 

I have my personal opinion and this is that on initiation Master activate Shen......precisly Yuan Shen of student and start to move Yuan Qi which we see as movements in Shen Gong.

 

Wrong, but again you won't know it till you experience it.

If you ever get initiated, when you sit down and start having a conversation with your Hu Fa Shen, you can revise your reply.

 

He/She is an independent conscious being and not you. They have a name, a history, a personality and a life and every Hu Fa Shen and Xian is different.

 

Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are good and Nei Dan for sure have elements of it when it is formed in late VIII century, but Dao Yin Shu and Yang Sheng are Hout Tian and not Xian Tian.

 

Dao Yin Shu that has lost the root of Divine Guidance from the Xian is Houtian.

Dao Yin Shu that has retained the root of Divine Guidance from the Xian is Xiantian.

 

There is a fundamental difference in the source of the energy used to trigger and maintain cultivation and the level of the teacher.

 

In one system the energy is coarse, in the other it is fine. 

In one system the teacher is an unrealised human, in the other it is a realised Xian.

 

Hence why we have XTDYS and HTDYS.

 

I know XYP now (but not before few years) mentioned that DYS is Xian Tian which for me is not true. How some can prove it?

 

At initiation, the disciple is assigned to their Hu Fa Shen, then all questions are automatically answered.

Once your teacher connects to you, begins moving you and communicating with you and you can feel their presence and touch, then questions of whether it's Yang Shen or not simply disappear.

 

Just say it is Xian Tian have no value, vecause Yuan states cant be percepted at all.

Also Dao Yin Shu is just basic and start, and cant be the  only practice nor it can made Yang Shen. 

I believe there must be other practices in higher degrees of XYP which can produce possibly Yang Shen.Is there such practice?

 

That's why we don't just say anything in XYP, we prove it through initiation, by backing up our words and connecting the student to a Xian from our school. We're not much for belief...

 

Our whole practise is called, Xiantian Dao Yin Shu. It consists of:

 

Xian Tian Shen Gong

Xian Tian Qi Gong

Xian Tian Jing Zuo

 

That's it. There are no higher practises : )

 

Problem is started when western students of XYP try to explain system with Nei Dan terms, but I know that XYP dont teach Nei Dan nor they replenish Jing and Qi. 

 

We teach the cultivation of Yang Shen, most people would call that Nei Dan or Jin Dan. You can call it anything you like. Butterfly Unicorn Immortal Body Art, if you want to. The name doesn't matter, only the effect.

 

We don't really actively do too much in XTDYS, most of our practice is Wuwei, so Shen, Qi and Jing all take care of themselves. It's the difference between XT and HT Xiulian. One is very Youwei for along time, while the other is very Wuwei from the start, but we manifest all the same results and others.

I'll try to keep it short.

 

I read complete tread about Xiao Yao Pai and in the past other treads related to it.

It is no doubt that XYP is interesting school and have interesting methods.

 

Maybe : )

 

Also I have long personal conversations with western students of XYP and Indonesian members and Masters of XYP.

 

Names?

 

After few years I have some picture of it and made my personal research.There are some questions and contraversies which rise I think because of interpretations that are given from western students and their wish to present XYP in the best light and not maybe in clear picture. 

 

It depends very much on who you speak to. Being initiated into XYP, doesn't make you an expert on XYP. That is why we have only a select few who represent us officially and internationally.

 

I see that terminology used evolved by time to.

 

The world keeps turning.

 

First I didn't find clues that XYP is part of Zheng Yi. On Long Hu Shan and Taiwan seat of Zheng Yi they dont know for XYP. 

 

It's strange then how they know us... If legitimation is your goal, then try a little harder.

 

I've mentioned this before about Zhengyi. We are now only affiliated with Zhengyi, that is to say we are not part of Zhengyi on paper anymore, because we chose to maintain our autonomy and govern how we spread our teachings, free from the overshadowing influence and long-term goals of particular national bodies. Many schools who were a part of Zhengyi before higher governing bodies got involved have opted for this status as a means to retain control over their traditions.

 

Even grade structure and titles of XYP is not the same.

 

Correct. Our is:

 

0: Dao Yu (道友)

Here HFS treats us like primary or elementary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will help us by holding us up and making sure we don't get hurt.

 

1: Dao Shi (道仕)

Here HFS treats us like secondary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will caution us, but we must carry ourselves and jump of our own accord if necessary

 

2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c.

Here HFS treats us like university students and we already have significant independence and maturity.

If we come across a steep ravine, we are expected to be able to see it ourselves and take the necessary actions.

At this level even if we fall, HFS just observes us and waits for us to take charge and get up.

 

3. Dao Zun (道尊)

Here HFS treats us like graduates from the university of life.

A this point, we are completely independent and on a level where we can work in union with HFS to help others on the most profound spiritual levels.

 

4. Dao Shi (道师)

Here we are granted the authority to represent Tai Shang Lao Jun as official representatives of the celestial realm. The Daoshi is authorised to delegate representation to those that reach Dao Zun level, so they can initiate others on their behalf.

 

What is more strange is that XYP dont have Shang Qing on altar but along Tai Shang Lao Jun they have Buddhist and Confucian statues so very sincretistic.

 

On our altars, that is if you even wish to have an altar, as it's not a necessity - we have: Tai Shang Lao Jun our Celestial head and his two Hufa; Er Lang Shen and Jiu Tian Xuan Nu : )

 

Confucianism didn't even exist during their time...

However, what you should also know is that a Buddhist is also a human and a spark of the Dao.

 

You better give Quanzhen a call about that and let them know how you really feel.

 

XYP have ritual in Temple and use of Talismans, Mantra and Hand seals and I hear have Spirit Lu registers which we can say is like Zheng Yi but I cant be sure on which level.

 

Doesn't matter to us really. We are not interested in legitimation by anyone or comparison. We stand on our own two feet.

 

I also didnt find paper in Bai Yun Guan (seat of Quanzhen) which mention XYP, and I speak with Longmen Pai, and San Feng Pai and Wudang Pai on Wudang Shan who also don't know about XYP.

 

Where is your proof?

 

Here's a picture of our Shifu initiating several priests in Quanzhen (Who you claim don't know us):

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/page-2#entry724348

 

As I say in that post, we have done the same for many other priests from many other of the main schools and yes, they all know us : )

 

I imagine that your claims of Longemen and Wudang are just as credible.......

Maybe you don't have the authority to get the answers you are asking for, or maybe they can "see" your heart : )

 

Tai Shang Men is clan and this means there are more Pai among them,but I didnt be able to find who are this Pai along XYP who belong to TSM? 

 

It's just Tai Shang Men Xiao Yao Pai.

Vibrations， frequencies, divine energy.. hmmm, I really do feel like I'm on a New Age board, not a Daoist one. Ahh.. Western Daoism...

 

Right. You're one of those guys...

 

Didn't know electromangetism and physics terminology were a new age phenomenon?

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on that a little more?

 

Divine energy is synonymous to the Primordial Qi of Wuji. Not a hard one to deduce contextually..

 

It seems that you're distracted by the name of the finger pointing to the moon - while missing the moon altogether in exchange for the opportunity to a remark of ignorance perpetuating dismissal.

 

Do you think the Dao did not exist before the word Dao was thought up by the mind?

In case you haven't noticed, we don't live in 3000 BCE anymore... 

We've made some discoveries in that time since... that is also Dao.

 

It might be a good time to consider the fact that Daoism has never stayed the same.

It has always been an ever-evolving and organic complex of systems, waxing and waning with the ages.

That much we can see by its history.

 

In the face of evolution and the constant of change, that which doesn't adapt, dies.

This is also an excellent description (in Taoist terms) of what happens with all guru/deity practices. Thank you for sharing the wisdom.

 

Thanks, Jeff. Funnily, I thought about you while writing the last couple of paragraphs 

Is this the same as done by doing Wu Ji Gong form_Primordial Tai Chi?

 

Actually, Wuji energy cannot be absorbed directly into the human body, because the energy is too fine and the frequency is too high, so it can adversely affect the system and shock it. Our Hu Fa Shen also have to step down to interact with some aspects of our human complex. If they just stay in their native vibration, we can't even see them with our eyes and when we can see them with our extrasensory perception they still have to tune down their energy body relative to our level otherwise they will just blind us with glaring divine light due to the intensity of their Yang Shen.

 

In Houtian the progression from Jing > Qi > Shen is among other things, so that the practitioner can begin to tune their energy to match the same vibration of Wuji; this then allows them to immerse their developing Xiao Yang Shen directly in the sea of primordial Wuji to bathe and absorb divine energy directly into their forming subtle immortal body.

 

In Xiao Yao Pai, during initiation we trigger the Shen directly to consciously activate that vibration, then Hu Fa Shen acts as a bridge between Wuji and Taiji to help us step down and transform the pure primordial Qi into Taiji energy that our body can absorb, meanwhile our Yuan Shen which is enveloped by our schools golden aura directly absorbs the highest vibration of Wuji and it begins to condense and become more solid; merging the 3 Hun and 7 Po into one entity; Yang Shen. This is why many newly initiated can see the dancing flowers and falling snow during initiation and start to feel a shapeless vapor forming above their head. This is the start of the Yang Shen beginning to congeal outside the body in the golden cocoon of our school's divine energy. This is often a final stage manifestation referred to as the "birth of the immortal child" in Houtian Neidan, but in our system it happens at the start and we do not have to be afraid to leave our Yang Shen outside of the body after it is born, because HFS protects us and our aura repels any Yin entities, while in Houtian Neidan, the "holy spirit" (hola Yeshua ) that is born for the first time has no protection, no home and no parents. For these roles we have the celestial branch of Xiao Yao Pai and our Hu Fa Shen.

 

So at first the golden aura which surrounds us and wraps around our spirit comes form our school and Hu Fa Shen, but as we continue to cultivate, the ratio starts to shift from: 100:0 to 70:30, 60:40, 50:50, 40:60, 20:80, 10:90, 0:100.

 

On the left of that ratio spectrum our aura's divine energy is called Shen Li and comes from our school and Hu Fa Shen's energy, but on the right of that spectrum, our energy has developed completely and Hu Fa Shen's protective energy has disappeared entirely. Our aura is now called Gong Li; and at this point we can stand independently in Wuji at the level of Hu Fa Shen. This development is correlated with the development of Yang Shen in Xiantian Dao Yin Shu.

 

Moving practices generally cannot absorb Wuji. They are usually a type of Qigong that develops the Taiji energy in the houtian meridians, but because this energy relates to the physical body; after we die, it disperses within this realm and cannot enter Wuji, because its vibration is too low (too physical), so it stays in Taiji and gets recycled based on the law of conservation of energy.

 

To be able to absorb Wuji energy, one first needs to have gotten to the Shen level of cultivation, through meditation, then learn how to transform the energy downwards so it can be used safely in in the houtian meridians that affect the physical tissues or when used during Wai Qi Liao Fa to project it into another persons energy body.

 

If someone is claiming to be absorbing Wuji Qi during a moving practice, it means they have already achieved all of the above and are always "there", always absorbing. Their Yang Shen is developed and conscious and residing in Wuji all the time, absorbing energy 24/7. Then it doesn't matter if you're on the toilet pooping or doing Taiji; the connection is established and conscious, so the process requires no doing and is a very high level Wuwei Gong, however if we sit and pacify the acquired mind; then the process of absorption is augmented and made more efficient.

 

I don't believe that anyone can learn that in 15 or 20 minutes as is claimed by Wuji Qigong Taiji instructors, because Houtian Neidan practitioners spend all their lives trying to get to the Shen level so they can start entering Wuji to cultivate Yang Shen, but maybe I'm wrong.

Lao Tzu and Jesus didn't talk directly about energy or the immortal fetus...

 

Are you sure?     

Alchemy requires a-lot of 'doing' until achieved high level (when no longer normal human), then non-doing becomes possible. For human, its all about doing the hard work to get the result and transform, until then, it's a-lot of doing-youwei. 

 

This is incorrect and misleading. Wu Wei is initiated as soon as our awareness begins to resonate with the stillness of Wuji, even before making direct contact. This is manifested in all levels of Tai Yin meditation (still body, still breath, still mind).

 

If your Jingzuo and Zuowang involve a voluntary movement in either of the three above ie: body, breath, imagination - you are trapped in Youwei and thus cannot go above the frequency of Taiji; therefore, the immortal spirit cannot even begin to be cultivated.

 

Wuwei is not a high level achievement. It is the basis of all Tai Yin meditation (Great Yin), which is the basis for achieving and maintaining a state of stillness in which ones awareness can expand and re-connect with its original nature.

 

There's no such thing as having to be "no longer human" to enter Wuwei practice.

 

There is still "doing" in Wuwei, but it is not active doing. The mind is not engineering, guiding or governing the doing; yet in this non-activity the most important thing becomes active and of its own, self-doing. This is the way to Xuan Guang, Yuan Xing and manifesting the light of the true self.

 

In our school we don't focus too much on the physical body and Ming. We just keep it healthy and follow a balanced diet. We can also eat whatever we like and have active sex lives. This is due to the source of our energy during cultivation, as we absorb Primordial Qi directly from Wuji during Xiantian Dao Yin Shu. Once this energy penetrates Taiji and interacts with our Shen we then step it down or transform it into a lower vibration which can be processed safely by the energy of the human body to support the Dantien and meridian reservoirs which can distribute the energy as necessary to regulate our Ming.

 

So the difference between Xiantian and Houtian methods in terms of "source" is that in Xiantian we absorb divine energy from the finest vibration then convert it downwards, while in Houtian we begin with the coarse. This is one of the reasons why physical sexual celibacy is often required in Houtian.

 

In Houtian we use force to throw the rock up into the air, because we must move from Jing to Qi to Shen to Wuji to Dao. In Xiantian we just let the rock fall from high and allow gravity to naturally do its job, because we move from Shen to Wuji to Dao, so the part which requires a lot of Youwei ie: building the energy "rocket" to propel the consciousness outside of Taiji, is skipped due to the fact that our spirit is wrapped with a cocoon of divine energy during initiation that encapsulates and replicates this function, while giving some extra perks.

 

During the earlier phases of practice in Xiantian systems, Shen Gong and Qigong is used to calibrate the Ming, but while Ming is being worked on we are always Xiu Xin Yang Xing consciously through the day and during Jingzuo, where our Xing is purified in a natural way (Ziran) to clear and still (Qingjing) the acquired conditioned virtues while bringing forth the radiant virtues (De) of our Yuan Shen and Yuan Xing.

 

All this leads us to become "Xiao Yao" with minimal to no effort. Hence the name of our school: Xiao Yao Pai.

If you want to program yourself with the idea of "hard work", it is your choice, but it is not the reality of cultivation.

 

The only thing challenging about spiritual cultivation is consistency. Everything else is natural.

And if a teacher has achievement, how do they demonstrate this to leave no doubt? Because immortality cant be 'demonstrated' except by out living everyone (self demonstration).

 

Would-be teachers need to lead with RESULTS, otherwise we have NO WAY to judge them or the veracity of their claim to be teachers in the first place.

 

Physical Immortality is one purported effect of neidan in houtian xiulian, but there are many accompanying skills, which a true teacher should be able to demonstrate.

 

I directed this question at AAK some time ago, but have not received a reply.

Here is some background: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/?p=724254

 

Wuliu Pai, as other schools, claim to develop physical immortality and AAK recently stated that the physical body which is houtian jing, qi and shen is converted to Yang Shen; essentially going against what a lot of the Daoist literature claims; in that the postnatal cannot generate the prenatal.

 

So I'd like to ask a very fundamental question and simple question once again, not only to Wuliu Pai, but to all schools who claim that the impermanent physical body can be absorbed into and converted to Yang Shen, so that there is no longer a dying body present, but only the undying immortal body - or that the physical body can be made to last forever (immortality).

 

AAK claimed that they age in reverse and get younger instead of older, never get sick and escape death.

 

Wuliu Pai from my understanding is around 500 years old, again, please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not familiar with your history. In this time, could we safely assume that you may have had at least 250 students, on the basis of around a 100 years of life with 50 students per century? - Maybe you have more students, maybe less. I am just using this as a crutch to illustrate my point.

 

So here is my question:

 

To support these claims in lieu of any demonstrations, in those ~500 years, can you point to any of your masters or their master's masters, whom are an embodiment of these achievements and are still alive today?

 

What are their names and where can we meet them?

 

There are pretty much two possibilities IMHO:

 

1. What AAK says is true and the masters of the school, going back to its inception are still alive today and teaching and have escaped death and achieved physical immortality.

 

OR

 

2. All the masters and their masters died an ordinary death and were either buried or cremated, indicating that the physical immortality claimed in their schools which supports the notion that the physical body can be prevented from dying and decaying, is actually false?

 

How does Wuliu Pai reconcile these beliefs with the history of their school?

Surely at least one of the Wuliu Pai masters must have achieved these things if they are teaching others about it?

 

What sort of argument can you give us AAK to substantiate these statements?

 

Gray hair that returns to original colour?

 

Gray hair returning to its original colour is not an indication of physical immortality.

The person will still die and be buried with their non-white hair.

 

It's my understanding that the IRF4 Gene is responsible for melanin regulation in hair:

http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=IRF4

 

Gene therapy will soon enough be able to change the hair colour to anything you like without dye; from gray to ginger.

 

Everyone will still die... It is the nature of all things born of Taiji; they are bound by the law of Yin and Yang; and so they are bound by death and decay. This is why in spiritual cultivation we focus on the cultivation of the immortal spirit only by using prenatal energy.

So if you opened it, could you please tell us where is it located?

Trick question...

 

No worries : )

I appreciate that, Pavel. Thank you. I just wanted to voice my opinion of what seems to be an emerging trend; one I don't really find conducive to overall harmony in the forum, but those are just my feelings : )

 

Most of the new Wuliu members that joined recently have a different grade and air about them to those that were previously active here, now temporarily banned I believe, so I'm pleased with your arrivals, especially that of AAK, who has facilitated very productive debates thus far.

 

I think there are already translations, but its always interesting to see new interpretations. Please share.