forestofclarity

Surrender seems to be a large part of it. It is not always clear what is being surrendered. Typically, it refers to the acquired mind (識神) or shi shen, the series of habits and ways of doings things that we've picked up over our lifetime or many lifetimes. Under it, the yuan shen (元神), is primordially free and connected to the larger whole. I often think of the TTC 48 on this (trans Derek Lin) Pursue knowledge, daily gain Pursue Tao, daily loss Loss and more loss Until one reaches non-action With non-action, there is nothing one cannot do Take the world by constantly applying non-interference The one who interferes is not qualified to take the world

It's the classic spirit of first hand experimentation and free inquiry that will not be limited by rules and limits. I think it is a good thing!

Classic Daobums answer! Thanks, I'll check it out when I have some time.

There is also a claim that this group teaches one to be a conduit rather than a generator, so very few ever develop the ability to emit qi independent of the teacher.

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point.

There are several benefits: increased physical health, less need for food/sleep, mental calmness, less clinging, increased meditative stability, etc. It is not a matter of the dan tian per se but a healthy subtle energy system, of which the LDT is a part. However, in appears to me that if one cultivates wisdom, then the subtle body develops spontaneously. Some Buddhist schools are more direct or indirect depending.

I have gotten instructions from a Soto person that was very close to Damo's. And Meido Roshi teaches it, but his lineage also includes martial arts. He wrote a book with some instruction on it. https://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/meido-moore/hidden-zen.html

This is just the old "are we building it or filling it argument" that every system with subtle body practices has. From the article: I was noting in the Mark Rasmus thread about this also. Zen in my mind really starts at the root and then extends into the body, so I think this is a difference.

Thanks, I appreciate the solid discussion. My primary practice is Buddhist, but I have an on-again, off-again relationship with Taiji and Taoist practices. The mechanics of my Taiji are coming together, so I was wondering a bit about the chemistry. It is interesting to read your POV because it sort of mirrors the Buddhist POV I am familiar with, but Daoists seem to go from body up and Buddhist practice from mind essence down IME. I've seen about 4 approaches in Buddhist and Daoist teachings over the years: 1. Fixating practices. 2. Non-fixating practices. Like Zen. 3. Both. More of the Vajrayana approach. 4. Neither. For me, the breath and attention both naturally sank into the lower part of the my body on its own over time doing normal meditation practice. In Damo's teaching, it is similar--- there is no forcing or forming. Rather, the breath and attention naturally settles into the dan tian region. I've also found there are channels and formations that seem to build off this on their own. I haven't heard of any forcible-type paths, but I do think some of the Daoist teachers tend to be more fixation oriented. This seems wise and in line with most recommendations I am familiar with. I think this is an issue with some Daoists--- the energy increases and it agitates the mental habits.

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Interesting that some years ago, there was a debate between Malaysian teachers, Sifu Yap and Sifu Wong Kiew Kit. Sifu Yap was big on releasing. Can you elaborate on this further? There is a similar focus in many Buddhist schools and many of those masters live a long time. Most of the stories I've heard about problems tend to be due to qi emission rather than dan tian cultivation. I don't know enough about Mark Rasmus, but I did follow some of his videos which had a profound impact. However, his online stuff is unorganized and his in person stuff requires a monthlong, $5,000 commitment. Does he have an in-between?

It's not.

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That's a good way to put it. English is very good at nouning everything. A few inner language shifts are always helpful--- referring to appearances or arisings instead of objects, etc. Egoing is a good addition.

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Essence is not function. Something can be false (or magical if you prefer) and still function. For example, a dream hammer is useful in a dream, but not useful in the waking state (and vice versa).

I will propose that anything which appears as a changing, limited object is false.

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I'd be curious to hear more about how Buddhism is practiced from a Shaolin perspective. I think Buddhism is practiced from different angles in different traditions. I personally don't think one way is right or wrong. Personally, I think the reason is that these practices require a lot of work and teacher supervision or they go wrong. On the other hand, I think the energy body stop develops anyway. I also think Westerners tend to "lower the bar" and miss out on a lot of possibility, but that might just be me.

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I agree with the nature, especially spending time around large, old trees. Shamatha or calm abiding meditation is the most grounding thing I can think of. Metta or lovingkindness practices are also useful.

Many religions/spiritual paths also. The thing about Damo is that all the criticisms seem to swirl around his personae. I haven't come across any of his substantive teachings that have been contradicted by other trustworthy sources--- in fact, they generally tend to be confirmed. I think it is a power path, and power generates all parts of the mind. It does seem natural-- there's an interesting book on this called "Cultish" talking about the tendency for people to form cults. Even when teachers actively discourage it. Qigong and intensive meditation can generate powerful experiences, so it is ripe for cultish activity. I think this is one reason in Buddhist traditions there is so much initial emphasis on sila or right conduct.

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