steve

"The first noble truth of the Buddha is that when we feel suffering, it doesn't mean that something is wrong. What a relief. Finally, somebody told the truth. Suffering is part of life, and we don't have to feel it's happening because we personally made the wrong move." ~ Pema Chödrön, When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times

I guess I pooped on the party because ascribing emotions to that which transcends subject-object distinction can be confusing. But if you want to use that word, go for it!

While I understand and agree with your message, I'd use caution referring to what "springs forth irresistibly" as 'emotion.' By definition, emotion is "a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others." What "springs forth irresistibly" is not derived from circumstances, mood, or relationships with others. It is the natural state of [insert preferred noun for the source of all enlightened qualities here].

Agreed and this realization is very precious when it is authentic and non-conceptual. Even more valuable is when we are able to notice and connect with what is actually present when they liberate. I think this is one area where dzogchen is unique and sometimes controversial. While emotions may be ultimately unfulfilling in a relative sense, they are nothing other than an energetic display of primordial wisdom and our ability to use them as a direct path to wisdom is priceless, consequently they are considered perfect just as they are. Viewing them as negative tends to close us off or leads to rejection and interferes with the process of self-liberation. This idea is central to the dzogchen view and expressed succinctly in this verse from The 21 Nails, a Bön dzogchen teaching: Self-originated primordial wisdom is the base. The five poisonous mental afflictions are the dynamic energy. Chasing after them is the way you are deluded. Viewing them as deficient is the error. Leaving them as they are is the method. Freeing them into vastness is the path. Non-duality is the realization I appreciate the use of "veils" as a metaphor which I see as analogous to the dynamic energy mentioned above. For me, dispassion is not so much an absence, reduction or rejection of feeling and thinking, but rather the freedom born from not hanging onto and identifying with the object or subject of experience; a continuous leaving them as they are and freeing them into vastness leading to the realization of non-duality.

I appreciate your comments CT. While you're probably aware of everything I write below, I think it worthwhile to share for others as well. It may be that dzogchen is approached differently in Bön and Buddhism. I don't know much about the Buddhist approach (or the Bön for that matter! ) Bön geshe programs provide instruction in sutra, tantra, and dzogchen, as well as the causal levels, somewhat concurrently. The majority of monks are being exposed to the dzogchen view and practice long before completing the generation and completion stages of tantra. They are studied in such a way as to allow the geshes to be able to hold and pass on the lineage but, from a personal perspective, they tend to focus on specific areas and specialize. Hence many are practicing dzogchen while still subject to the five poisons. Even in practice, the 9 levels are not strictly hierarchical. The majority of monks I know are actively practicing elements of sutra, tantra, and dzogchen at any given time while also engaging in the causal stages like astrology, medicine, working with the natural elements, and so on. As you imply, there was a time when dzogchen teachings were kept highly secret and reserved for a small minority of practitioners that satisfied very stringent pre-requisites. In Bön history, it is said there was a time when each master shared the dzogchen teachings with only one student in a lifetime, with rare exception. That changed around the 8th century when the teachings were first written down and then much more so with China's invasion of Tibet and the destruction of many monasteries, monastics, and lay practitioners. Now it is taught freely and widely, at least in Bön, after a few key lamas had visions of the permanent loss of the teachings should they not be made more accessible. Some feel that the dzogchen approach is uniquely suited to the modern world and for export to foreign lands due to its simplicity and lack of dependence on complex and unique cultural, religious, and social conventions, unlike the sutric and tantric practices. I think we're seeing a great experiment of releasing these high level teachings to a world-wide audience. Time will tell how it works out. In my little corner of the world, I already see many people from all walks of life benefiting from these precious practices and bringing them into their lives in a way that helps others, without having first perfected sutra and tantra, something they likely would not or could not hope to achieve. In the dzogchen teachings I've received one thing is made very clear, the view excludes nothing and encompasses all without exception; nothing is irrelevant including emotions. Certainly there may be monks and ngagpas who have transcended the mundane such that there is little left to self-liberate on their path of dzogchen. To whatever extent, however, that thoughts and emotions do arise, they are very relevant to the practice. I've been told by some of the most accomplished masters of Bön dzogchen that thoughts and emotions continue to arise and thus are quite relevant to their practice. While it is taught that realizing the dzogchen view one realizes all stages of the path, in practice it is advised to continue to engage in whatever other practices benefit one's self and others. Just some food for thought.

I recommend standing and connecting to trees

It's a bit like waking up in a dream. The emotion is happening. I am aware of the experience, as opposed to being wrapped up in the blindness of the story and thoughts and feelings, I look at who it's happening to, who is feeling and reacting, what is this I? Ultimately it is unanswerable; no matter how long and deep I look, I don't find anything. Then the practice is simply to embrace that sense of me in the warmth of openness and naked presence. Emotion is a direct door to the Natural State. Vision is mind Mind is empty Emptiness is clear light Clear light is union Union is great bliss ~ Dawa Gyaltsen, 8th century

One of my favorites! Lyrics and music both. Very tricky to play well.

Excellent question to which I don’t have an answer. Given how subtle emotional content and reactivity can be, quite likely a very small percentage.

My opinion is that emotions are a part of the path, a very important part, but only a part. My approach is that everything is the path, how could it be otherwise? Our emotions, beliefs, thoughts, aversions, attachments, our body, our work, our relationships... all of it. Our practice should touch every part of our lives in some way.

I really like that! Sometimes in retreat people get frustrated with things they don’t understand. Our teacher says something like, focus on what makes sense now and be open to the possibility that other things will become clearer as you gain experience.

I think the 'struggle' is healthy, it is open, alive and sincere. I get a sense that it denotes a curiosity, an unwillingness to settle on someone else's limited definition and a desire for deeper exploration of personal meaning. When we [think we] know the answer and are settled in that knowledge, we're limited. We've shut ourselves off to growth. My sense of de is also related to wu wei. While I don't doubt that "de is needed for wu wei," I suggest that de can be considered as a 'result' or the human manifestation of wu wei. What does the dao look like when it is embodied in a person? It looks like de. How is de accomplished or experienced? It is discovered and expressed through wu wei. De for me connotes a sense of authenticity and integrity, it is the human expression of the dao through our non-interference, through our openness and clarity. De can be seen as a measure of the degree to which we are aligned with our unfabricated nature, zi ran. Like you, understanding is an ongoing project for me, gradually becoming less and less dependent on words and concepts.

Reminds me of a favorite line from the short story, A Girl I Knew - “She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.” J.D. Salinger

A corollary is that for any of us one specific teacher, text, practice, even a word or a smack on the shoulder, can be what it takes to make us receptive.... or whatever it is that happens to open us up. It's a mystery to me how it happens, a blessing.

In my experience those emotions are already there, in the moment. Not working with them as they arise can be an easy way to bypass, something that can be subtle. For that reason I think it’s valuable to work with emotions directly.

I like weird… but don’t always understand. Especially in a digital format.

A timely post about anger and practice from my teacher that felt like it is appropriate here.

Just to be clear, not my model. I worked with it for a few years, very effectively in fact. The method was developed by a fellow named Stephen Hayes. There is cognition involved, I believe it’s considered a variant of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). The analysis part is not considered to have much value. Like in many Eastern systems, the idea is the mind can’t fix the problems it is continually creating. The analogy is trying to wash blood from one’s hands with more blood.

Along those lines, once certain of and settled into the view I tried to indicate, we exercise with it. First bringing that quality of attention to virtuous activity (mantra, circumambulating, etc), then to mundane daily activities, even to challenging situations and non-virtuous activity. Ultimately to every experience. In the beginning it needs to be protected like a small candle, then challenged, and eventually it’s said to be like a bonfire only made stronger by everything that it comes into contact with. A beautiful metaphor but not my lived experience I can tell you, not yet…

Years ago I looked for a therapist and had the good fortune to stumble across an ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy) therapist. ACT has very Eastern roots and was perfectly in accordance with my meditation practice - Daoist at the time. We practice "accepting" what is present in our lives, meaning acknowledging what is really going on at any given moment without fighting with it, denying or suppressing, simply being directly aware without engaging or analyzing. The "commitment" part is going through a process of identifying and committing to acting in accordance with our personal values. The two parts are compliment each other. I found it very supportive and enlightening. I learned a lot about myself and about dealing with challenges.

So looking at my post, it certainly could have been taken as insulting. Sorry for that _/\_ Long post below... enter at your own risk

I can offer one approach. Do you already have a meditation practice? Are you able to rest the mind and find an inner sense of openness, clarity, and inner support?

I got a lot out of The Tai Chi Boxing Chronicle by Kuo Lien Ying which is very specific to taijiquan. It took several readings over time. As my experience in practice deepened, I could understand more and more of the book’s lessons. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/101474/the-tai-chi-boxing-chronicle-by-kuo-lien-ying-translated-by-guttmann/ Another valuable book for me was Original Tao by Harold Roth. It’s a translation and commentary on a classic text, Nei Yeh. https://cup.columbia.edu/book/original-tao/9780231115643

Enlightened? You decide. Hugely entertaining? You bet!