Apech

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Posts posted by Apech

  3. Posted

     

    Apech,

     

     

     

    I think there is some truth to a basic polarity existing, or a seeming one (in the case of day/night for example...they aren't polar opposites, it's just the movement of the earth and the apparent motion and absence of the sun. Actual day and night are illusory and just concepts). Most of the world appears as dual, but in fact it is not...so we already begin with a false conceptual map of nature by using yin and yang.

     

    I begin to get really hung up on the 8 trigrams. They are supposed to be 8 powers in nature...but they don't seem equal to me, and definitely not a basis for the rest of creation. Sky, lake, fire, thunder, wind, water, mountain, earth. Sky and earth seem equal and worthy. But a lake? Thunder? Why not a river? Why not lightning, or a storm in general? What about volcanoes? The way I see it, these 8 trigrams don't make sense as the 8 primary forces of nature.

     

    Then these powers are each equated to other things...in the case of "sky" there is: expansiveness, a father, summertime, creativity...so we begin to lump a lot of other aspects of our reality into categories which may be inaccurate, and not useful.

     

    Then we combine two of these 8 powers and come up with a hexagram? Why? And more importantly, how does one know that by combining those two forces, whether the resulting explanation is accurate for those things? I understand there is a lot of explanation for each line and position within the hexagrams...so perhaps there is something to defining everything in terms of 64. But what use does it have in terms of numerology (for instance does hexagram 45's explanation actually relate to the energy of the number 45 itself? Will that explanation correlate to other times when the number 45 appears?). And why is everything based off of 8 powers anyway? From what I understand, most systems use 9 as the complete or final number.

     

    So anyway, the way I see it, the entire book seems to be based on a shaky foundation.

     

     

     

    Clearly its up to you how you approach this ... supposing you are going to study it all. If you are you need to start with why for instance three yang lines is sky/heaven i.e. what energy/power in nature it is an image of. Why lake? What is meant by lake ... what quality of lake is being alluded to ... etc. rather than assuming you already know what sky, lake , thunder and so on are. Its hard to explain but try to let the text speak to you without preconceptions. Your questions are good .. since you ask them you could get to an answer I think.

     

    Sorry if this sounds either vague or mysterious but its late here and I'm going to bed now ... :closedeyes:

  4. Posted

    I don't pretend to understand the I Ching properly ... although I do consult it from time to time. To me it is interesting on all sorts of levels. If you accept that energy has a basic polarity (yin/Yang) ... then you can look at how complex levels of reality can develop from the interaction of this duality ... from the pairs, trigrams to the hexagrams ... most of the Taoist alchemical texts seem to draw on symbolism from the I Ching so if you are interested in cultivation then its probably a great help if not essential to have a basic knowledge of it. But I guess if you feel no connection to it ... then give it a miss ... there are other things to do.

  6. Posted

    Hello Apech,

     

    In a way spirituality is superstitious. Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hiduism, etc. all are superstitious, yet under the surface there is something deeper. People here me say, "life is about survival" and they immediately get this "Lord of the Flies", "Apocalypse Now" type of idea in their head, when that's not exactly what I'm talking about. Survival is more than just simply trying to live as long as you can. The mother lion who confront the hyenas to defend her cub is an example of survival on a deeper level. The fact is we are supposed to have a deep and fulfilling life, but the key is not found in enlightenment, salvation, or an altered state of consciousness, it's found in understanding that in this moment you are doing what you are intended to do, so long as you do what is beneficial for you and your loved ones. It's that simple.

     

    This idea that life has to have some deep purpose or cause is just a way for us to behave in a decent way with one another. Moralism, spirituality, etc. are all tools for social conformity and by no means are they bad things, in fact I advocate the practice of Zen, but I also understand what it is at its root and that it is not necessary or required. One can go their entire life without hearing the word "Zen" yet in one instance understand exactly what it is. Dogma, conformity, and society have nothing to do with survival. They have no purpose within the realm of nature, because they are constructs that only exist within our head.

     

    Breathe deep and listen to what the world is saying and I think more often than not you will understand the purpose and in understanding you will stop having to ask the question.

     

    Aaron

     

    If you mean by superstition the original sense of 'standing above' then I suppose religions are superstitious in that they suggest better ways of being. However the modern use of this word is about imputing a completely arbitrary relation between a cause and an effect.

     

    I am not a religious person in the usual sense and I don't have much time for priests or popes (mullahs?) etc because the try to wrap up the truth in some kind of package. But I would say the core spiritual values of most religions are valid ... i.e you can be a better person, live a better life ,,, be kinder, more loving and so on ... this is not survival ... its about being free to express yourself in a genuine way.

     

    Does nature or the world have this purpose? Possibly not in itself ... but then on what does nature depend?

  7. Posted

    *** Mod Message ***

     

    I am moving this to Off Topic where other similar threads reside.

     

    An open plea to I4L ... one thread only please on your anti-Darwinism --- we do not need so many.

     

    Thank you.

     

    Apech for Mod Team

     

    **** Message ends ****

    • Like 1

  8. Posted · Edited by Apech
    typos

    I would agree with Marblehead, that when one practices what's been taught in the Tao Teh Ching that it helps us to live longer and healthier lives. We sometimes are tricked into believing that spirituality is real, when it isn't. Seeking a purpose where there isn't any is one of the greatest mistakes we make as humans. That isn't to say that we shouldn't be spiritual, but rather that we need to understand spirituality for what it is, a tool for understanding the underlying phenomena of nature that we cannot (or couldn't at one time) completely understand.

     

    The fact is survival requires understanding. It requires knowing what to do when it needs to be done. When we don't know, then we start to worry, because that lack of knowledge means that something might occur that will impact our survival.

     

    Bob, Bill, and Joe each toss a small stick into the campfire and shortly after catch a fish. They believe that somehow this action has effected nature and caused them to catch fish. From that point on they throw a stick into the campfire believing that it will lead to them catching more fish. It works fine for a few months, then Andy comes along and throws a stick into the fire, only it's a different type of fish and that night the river dries up and the fish are gone. Apparently Andy has somehow caused the river to dry up and from that point on you cannot throw that type of stick into the fire... we wont even mention what happens to poor old Andy.

     

    This is what I'm talking about when I say we apply human characteristics to nature. It is our desire to explain the unexplainable, to define the undefinable, that causes us to come up with answers where they aren't needed. The truth of the matter is, regardless of whether you are enlightened or not, the goal of life is stay alive until you finally die, nothing more. If one happens to reach some kind of awareness along the way, kudos, hopefully it will help them to not complicate the simplicity so much.

     

    Aaron

     

    Your example with the sticks in the fire sounds to me more like superstition than spirituality. If you impute a relation between an action and a result which doesn't exist then I would call this superstition. Spirituality on the other hand suggests real relationships between events and results beyond that which is immediately apparent or perhaps beyond the mundane.

     

    To suggest that life is all about survival seems to beg the question - survive for what? Just to exist? Our efforts to understand and become wiser or to develop Te are not just so that we can exist - but so that we can live in a better way. We don't have to explain if or why the universe may want us to become wiser or more sage like but if we take up the Taoist way then we automatically accept that somehow this is the way. Life stops being just about surviving to the next meal but about something greater and better. We don't have to anthropomorphize nature to say this... in fact I don't think we even have to say why it is so ... its part of mystery ...maybe.

  12. Posted

    The humanistic part perhaps?

     

    Quirky and ambitious as we are, it appears that at this point in time, more and more people are being sensitized and attuned to expressing life beyond the material realm.

     

    The outer comforts having been desired and gotten, have now left a sort of indelible blandness of taste and dissatisfaction in the soul. In the process of becoming numb to being overloaded by external stimulus, an internal window have somehow opened in conjunct - people have now had glimpses to sense that there are deeper, more holistic layers to survival where further explorations of a philosophical, spiritual and artistic kind can happen. Its my feeling that Taoism and some other Eastern traditions have gained quite a foothold in this regard, as paths which offer more attractive albeit radical alternatives.

     

    Gradually, this vista to the inner world is being widened, and the new paradigm may present many with answers they are seeking, while for some others, unfortunately, it becomes just another substitute distraction based on conceit and selfish gains. And so the wheel turns.

     

    Personally, i am looking forward to the day when i can start enjoying doing nothing except lying on the rug all day, playing with lint balls. Talk about ambition... :wacko:

     

    I have noticed recently that practically everyone I hear about is either depressed or on medication for depression. World tiredness I think.

  15. Posted

    Oh. How excellent !!! This "Voted best spellcaster of the year **" is selling amulet on her website "http://www.blackmagicspells.org" . How come she got permanently banned for the offensive post at here ?

     

    link: http://www.thetaobum...post__p__260875

     

    How dose this "Voted best spellcaster of the year **" hate the "events of Taoist Master Wang Liping, Lao Zi Academy (http://laoziacademy.us)" ? Why dose she target the "Syllabus of Master Wang Liping's Inner Alchemy (Nei-Dan) Training Classes http://laoziacademy.us/2011_april.html" ?

     

     

     

    I thought it was obvious why she/he was permanently banned from the link you provided. We don't delete old posts of banned members.

     

    If you guys want to fight about Master Wang Liping's teachings or whatever please do it somewhere else.

     

    Thanks

     

    Apech

  19. Posted

    The Egyptian system precisely identifies numerous points on the body and head with various deities in order to purify and empower it. In the Pyramid texts the king is said to circulate the 'mounds of Horus and Set' - these are the energy centres ... those relating to perception are those of Horus and the ones about developing power are those of Set. Significant parts of this type of practice are about establishing the heart in the body and also 'joining the head to body' which means achieving a level of integration.

     

    For a long time Egyptologists suppressed the sexual content of Egyptian religion even though it is self evident and key to understanding what they were talking about. For instance the god Atum effectively masturbated the world into existence, Isis drew semen from the dead Osiris by creating a magical phallus, the god Min is shown with a erect penis and had orgiastic rites which involved the consumption of lettuce opium and Hathor was herself the goddess of joy, music, sex and so on. The word for Ba or 'soul' is sometimes written with a phallus and this is said about the resurrected king in the Pyramid Texts "Unis is lord of semen, who takes women from their husbands to the place Unis likes according to his hearts fancy." (this last quote is meant with some humour by the way).

     

    So I think you can safely conclude that sex was at the heart of Egyptian teachings.

  20. Posted

    Obviously, over the years of being here and listening, my interpretation of Lau Tzu's explanation of the Tao meaning "The way of things, nothing, all beings" has changed, from thinking it was pointing to an ultimate reified identity of things, instead to an ever evolving (which includes devolving) process that is all inclusive. :D

     

    Which makes it more akin, internally to me, reflective of my understanding of what the Buddha taught as Buddhadharma. :lol: YAY!!

     

    I think you are right ... although some Taoist deify Lao Tzu and the Tao ... mind you some Buddhists deify Lord Buddha ... so its just a human tendency to want to have an ultimate to cling to.

    • Thanks 1

  21. Posted

    I think our western culture makes us hung up on having to believe something - as if this is important or the key to something. This comes from the Judeo-Christian approach to spirituality. The Buddhist approach is more about building confidence in the view ... you can accept ideas like karma because they work and also because they are logical rather than some leap of faith.

     

    Cause and effect - which is the basis of karma - is logical - if you do something, act in a certain way or effect some kind of change then inevitably it has some consequence because the energy of that act is not destroyed. In terms of a moral or ethical position if you have choices about what to do then it is better to choose the positive, generous or beneficial option ... on the basis that generally this will at some time in the future (for someone if not yourself) will have positive results.

     

    The idea that we are blank sheets of paper when born is not altogether convincing. For instance we know that each one of us is genetically unique ... ok the essential nature of our minds may be pure but as actual people we have characteristics even at birth ... even identical twins are slightly different. Through interacting with the world we very quickly pick up thoughts, feelings and emotions and so on which shape us further ... this is not through faults exactly but just how it works for beings with minds which are not realised.

     

    Rebirth I think, also is a very different idea from reincarnation. Its more that whatever energy or consciousness which makes up a person is not lost at death but is somehow passed on just as the water in a river flows on or a candle flame is lit from a previous flame ... so it is not that 'you' are born again but that there is some kind of transmission.

     

    Obviously these are my thoughts and people need to make their own minds up about these things. But I think key to this kind of thing is to examine critically any assumptions you may make about how things are.

  22. Posted

    Some further authority for my mod message above:

     

    Harsh Words

    There are three types of harsh words: direct, circuitous, and indirect. The first one is forceful, directly digging at someone's various faults. The second is to use sarcasm or some funny words just to hurt. The third one is to dig at someone's various faults by saying bad things to his friends or relatives.

     

    The Jewel Ornament of Liberation

    Gampopa

    trans. Khenpo Konchog Gylatsen Rinpoche

    • Like 3

  23. Posted

    *** Moderator Message ****

     

    Dear Fellow TaoBums,

     

    I know you are better than this. Insults and criticism are harsh words are they not? How about some restraint in favour of 'right speech'. I have read most of this thread and also the calls for moderator action. Rather than that why not moderate your selves?

     

    Even if you disagree with what the other person is saying they have a right to say it ... stick to the subject and do not make the subject someone else's shortcomings. Please avoid personal attacks and insults or we will take action.

     

    Peace and compassion,

     

    Apech for Mod Team

     

    *** Message end ***

    • Like 2

  25. Posted

    Thanks Y'all.

     

    Well, things went exactly the way they had to go. Hehehe.

     

    I will be back to my normal self (whatever that means) in a day or two.

     

    Family, shmamily ... who needs them? Take my mother-in-law .... no, really, take her ... please ... :lol: