Apech

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I don't care what anybody says, 陳 泮 嶺太 極 拳99 is the best in world.

I'd like to agree ... but have no idea what you are talking about.

Hi,

What this lady Caroline Dekker appears to be doing is using the energy of particular Egyptian temple sites to energize and harmonize the chakras. This in itself seems valid (provided it works). What was confusing me was some of the choices of sites and also the description of the deities and so on.

For instance Kom Ombo ... the main deity associated with this town is Set .. he was known as Nubty or 'the Ombite'. But the temple which she is referring to built by Thut 3 I think has Horus the Elder and Sobek the crocodile god. In certain periods it was considered incorrect to name Set directly ... although in the earliest time this was not the case when Horus and Set were seen as equal if opposing forces (bit like yin/yang).

BTW I think the lower Tantien is the 2nd chakra not the 1st.

Suggest you contact her and ask more questions about what she does (if there's a contact on that site) ... I googled her name and found a blog also.

The term caveman i.e. literally person living in a cave could be applied to both neanderthal and homo sapiens. So I think the idea that we are not descended from people who might have lived in caves is erroneous. Neanderthal are thought to be an off shoot of human evolution and not our direct ancestors. For a time humans lived side by side with neanderthals in Europe and it may be that we did play a part in their eventual extinction (there are various theories about this). The last known neanderthal remains are on the rock of Gibraltar (south Spain).

The skull with the 'bullet hole' - who knows? But shot with a bullet 38,000 years ago ... no I don't think so.

It's just a travel website, but for the most part it seems to line up with what I've read of these gods, except that the 3rd eye is usually called the Eye of Horus and is why Horus usually has a cobra(kundalini serpent) over his 3rd eye. Perhaps there was other significance with The Sphinx who I'm pretty sure was related to Isis/Bastet.

 

Also, from what I have read, the crown chakra leads up to union with a divine mother, though I'm not sure if it's specifically Isis, Nut, or others.

 

Again, I'm looking for more information on this side of it all, so please, let me know what you've got!

 

(edit: do the temples not match the chakras? or the gods don't match? How do you understand the relationships to be? From what I've seen, you seem to be the most familiar with Egyptian spirituality here, so I'm looking forward to your contribution to the topic!)

 

The website is basically a travel thing (not the most reliable, but it seemed pretty close at least for a jumping off point. There's so much complexity and interrelatedness with Khemetic symbology that it's hard to be sure what is totally off or just coming from another aspect of the teaching).

 

maybe paste the two parts together:

 

http://www.freewebs.com/

 

spiritualegypt/thechakrasofthenile.htm

OK found it through google

My link

Link will not work for me.

The list of chakras and temple sites seems a little confused to me - where does this information come from?

Ok, well... they (females) say it's huge! Could be lying...

 

No, there is no linear formula for actually grokking liberation, but it's a huge, huge help.

 

So... wait a second, you actually sat there and did 100,000 mantras at one time without moving? Or you did it over the period of 2 years? That makes a huge difference, how much you do in a single sitting is the bread and butter of deeper realization.

No I did it over a period of time not in one sitting. I am a weak poor fool and also I don't walk around naked ... well only in my bathroom ... obviously I wish to discourage jealousy in others ... or something ....

Ahh... okay. Its just that i have never come across any Tibetan teacher that said something along this vein. What i have been told is that all Vajrayana practices undertaken helps to remove obscurations, and that in fact, there is nothing to attain. Some of these teachers would go as far as to tell their wide-eyed admirers that they are wasting their time and money if they think they can be led to enlightenment, but i digress... lest i be told i am advocating and preaching Buddhist superiority.

 

Moreover, this is way off topic. I am no Kundalini warrior, so not much to contribute i'm afraid.

 

Apologies.

I believe the sadhanas say this ... if you do this then you will achieve this. OK I think its a mixture mostly in that Lamas do not stress this kind of thing.

Just to be clear I respect Buddhism greatly ... I was just pointing out what I perceive as a weakness which is tendency to think in this way ... I wasn't repudiating the power of dharma or vajrayana in saying this.

But, you've never tried it, so your opinion is under informed. I've tried it, but not the extent prescribed, sadly, yet it did work to the extent I under did it too. I got a heck of a lot more enlightened by following such structured prescriptions. You have no idea (or maybe you do...) what it takes to do such a thing and what one works through internally as one try's to maintain focus with a healthy level of pre-contemplation and knowledge of where I'm going by reading "structured" texts that unpack the praxis of enlightened Buddhas into healthy conceptual formations.

I have tried it. Maybe not well enough ???? but I have.

Yes, of course, but you've also read teachings by the "Crazy Wisdom Siddhas", right? Sure there is that, but that structure of course is a bondage too and Buddhism has made space for that, lots of space. I've experienced that level of no fear to walk around completely naked and do anything, as an expression of love to shock people out of their comfortable, subconscious malaise. I've done some things as my body echoed from the state of spontaneous presence... sure.

 

EDIT: Sadly I'm still egotistical enough to mention it though...

When you walked around naked did they see the point? Were you making a big point or a small one ?(ha ha).

Yes, crazy wisdom ok ... but that's more to do with what I'm saying ... there is no formula for that I think ....

Is that what they told you when you were practicing Vajrayana, Apech? I will find it odd if they did.

Well, yes in a way they did and if you read Vaj above somewhere he seems to affirm that some practices are taught in this way.

Well sure, I know this story. It's interesting, but it's metaphorical. None of the texts that we have from ancient Sumer or Egypt talk clearly about the stages of actual sitting meditation the multiple realms, the cause and result of various types of focus. The closest we seem to come to any sort of systemized clarity from that region is Kabbalah. I mean, you have to read into it and the way we are reading into it now after having been exposed to so much information from the last 2,500 years is not how we would have read into it way back when.

 

My point is these supposedly ancient maps can be interpreted in so many different ways. They don't point to clarity with clarity in my opinion. They can when one already has some clarity, but that's like anything, which is subjective. I find that the steps of Buddhist philosophy and practice lead to a deeper sense of objectivity, towards "oneself" the experiencer in reference to everything else in both a transcendent and simultaneously eminent way. This transcends both objective and subjective modes of thinking and yet makes them one in an integral fashion for the individual. This is the genius of dependent origination/emptiness. There isn't a subjective idealism and there isn't a monistic idealism, yet it utilizes all of it so that one may grok directly the nature of things without a sense of bondage, this has it's omniscience.

 

 

 

Inperience = from a root meaning to test, to try out. perhaps would have a meaning of garnering self knowledge through trial?

 

A new word! Wow, it seems like a rare word as well? Is that what you meant by the word, it does seem so.

 

Yes, I agree, there is no such thing as non-existence and this is all Buddhism is saying that everything is relative. There is no uncaused cause, and even Egyptian lore only goes so far within the 31 realms model and as far as what we have of it, there isn't that clarity, that grounded lucidity. It's all open for interpretation, like what do we really know about these people and their traditions from way back when? I don't doubt that there might have been powerful beings, possibly with incredible powers of perception back then. Later there were all sorts of cults surrounding the different names of the gods, like they had in India. But, in India they met with the path of meditation and maybe that's the influence that became these Tantric Rituals? As it seems they had all sorts of rituals but not really a mapped out path of meditation and insight into phenomena outside of superstition. I am no Egyptologist though, so... I am willing to be educated more. But, look at people like Aleister Crowley and Thelema of which I've been initiated into. Which is all supposed to be based upon a mixing of all sorts of ancient Egyptian stuff. I have indeed met some very interesting people in Thelema with a great knowledge of the meaning of these Egyptian metaphors. Anyway... interesting, but a clear path with a clearly understood goal? I don't see it.

The ancient texts have to be read properly to be understood - which is something Egyptologists or archeologists struggle to do because they have no basis or experience (inperience) of meditiation or energy working. But if you use a phenomenological approach - that is let the text 'speak' to you then you can with a lot of work get understanding. But the point is that this understanding would be a cultural norm in ancient times but has now been lost to us because of (at least ) 2000 years of interference from Judeo-Christian (and to a certain extent Greek thought).

The Egyptian system had a clearly understood goal of becoming '3kh' ... although that would take a lot of explaining nowadays. I don't bother with kabbalah or Crowley much although have read a bot of both.

If the question is - was there a properly mapped out system for liberation before Buddhism the answer is yes (IMO) but if the question is 'is there an extant system which pre-dates Buddhism?' well probably no ... have we discounted yoga schools ???not sure(?).

My other point is that maps, mandalas and world views (e.g. shamanic) are good and valid ... but formulaic methods don't and can't work. For instance some Buddhists schools will tell you that if you sit in this posture and chant this mantra 100,000 times etc you will automatically become enlightened (or at least gain some level of liberation). This in my view is pure b/s.

Codes for life can be helpful of course. You don't walk down the high street naked (well you might Vaj I'm not sure ) you wear clothes which make you accepted and acceptable to people ... this is in my view the status of right living and so on ... its a good code for life which keeps you sufficiently balanced that you can get on with practice without a lot of hoohaa going on in your life ... same with gathering merit which gives you a chance of what Gampopa calls 'leisure and endowment' ... so that you can practice in peace.

Would you consider Inner non-dualisation? Maybe? It could be quite an ornament to put it next to this gem 'inperience'... (nudge nudge wink wink )

Well I was thinking 'ex' means 'out' and so experience means tested in the outer world - so if you test it in the inner world its got to be an inperience. Just a thought.

Yes, but a formula for the way to "right" praxis, that is clear and concise as Buddhism is, is not a failure at all. Besides, it's also not praxis as that too is empty of inherent selfhood and arises due to cause and condition, thus, one must empty that as well of any clinging, but then that as well is an intuition.

 

Praxis, or intuition is hard to transfer from person to person, generally speaking, but a codified system towards the praxis of "right view" is not.

 

One can indeed formulate 8 steps to heaven, even if it's not total liberation, if one actually follows the 8 fold path with forbearance and forgiveness upon oneself, heaven is guaranteed and so is liberation, eventually.

 

Also the world view of Shamanism of any sort generally revolves around a primal self standing essence. It's as if all paths go as deep as the big bang, and say's... "it's a mystery", and no deeper. Buddhist cosmology does and it demystifies this self standing essence, breaks it down and sees right through it and past it. It's like anti-gravity. That mystery is a gravitational force and Buddhism de-conditions it's power with it's "right view". As in general Shamanism treats this mystery with some inherent essence, and is blinded by the amazing bliss and peace that comes with surrendering on that level. Thus, there doesn't come the level of insight required to grok or have praxis in the true insight of how things happen any deeper than ending up at that mysterious essence that acts as a powerful emotional excuse to not pry the door any more open.

Any formula or method can only produce a set of effects which depend on the steps of the method. Shamanism is of course a term which has been applied in a modern way so we need to be careful about that. Someone mentioned Egypt where they mapped out the path with extreme accuracy and precision (for instance in the Amduat). So I am not against maps at all.

Obviously as we have discussed many times before the Buddhist view critiques any other view which seems to have an underlying real cause or essence. This, as I see it, is a way of avoiding clinging to that cause and avoiding dualistic thinking i.e. IT and me. However the real root of this and the only reason it has any bite at all as a way of thinking is the face-to-face reality of the real (if you forgive this phrase) which is based on inner realisation or experience (perhaps inperience would be a better word).

You have to post in the lobby before anything else.

And ... welcome

Standing still for what seemed an eternity

I think some of them might disagree with you on the cosmology and methods to maintain rightful living among other things.

 

I think we fail if we attempt to paint this culture with a broad stroke like any culture.

The world view of Shamanism is a cosmology.

In some ways I think it is the failing of Buddhism in that it offers up a formula for liberation. I suspect that ultimately any such formula does not work ... its about praxis as Shaktmama says ... about your own experience and the wisdom it imparts to you ... you cannot formulate three steps to heaven despite Eddie Cochran et al.

Sorry I think I was answering Vaj and not you Shaktimama ... ( ).

Just got back from a weeks break myself. Funny thing is I really missed being on here! Who needs family when you have TTBs all over the place?

Have a good break Marbles hope you enjoy yourself.

A.

I think that the ideas and techniques of Taoism were first developed when we were hunter/gatherers and that what we now tend to call shamanism was the universal way in which man related to spirit. People then as now would only value these things if they were actually useful in some way. For instance if they made the hunt better or the knowledge of edible plants and their habitats made gathering easier. This would be based on a sensitivity or oneness with nature and its ways.

In hunter/gatherer communities only about 30% of time is spent either hunting or gathering which leaves plenty of time for creativity and so on - but because these people do not live in settlements (or not all the year anyway) the kind of developments which we call civilization could not develop - this has led to the misapprehension that these early people were not cultured, knowlegable or sophisticated.

When man started to live in fixed communities and used farming to supply their food there was a 'sudden' emergence of many of the things we see today ... even mass production of bread and beer in the Nile valley for instance and of course things like writing and architecture. Clearly at this time the kind of wisdom and knowledge which people would value changed. To cultivate plants for food is risky business and the life cycles of the plants and the effects of the seasons have to be properly understood. No longer can you just up and move on if there are bad times. At this time life ironically became more of a struggle, risk of famine arose because of heavy dependence on the weather conditions. Whole civilizations collapsed or changed radically when volcanoes, tsunamis and so on upset the natural rhythm which arable food production relies on. Life expectancy dropped and infectious diseases emerged. So value was placed on health and cultivation.

The sages changed their emphasis to reflect the world in which they lived. At both times they could live in accordance with the Tao and cultivate Te - the way it was expressed changed, that's all.

Well Folks. Wu Wei slapped me aside the head so I feel the need to say something.

 

In the post that aroused emotions Gold was only stating his opinion based on his understanding and he presented an example of why he feels the way he does. His example, I am sure, was not intended for the purpose of pointing out one specific religion/belief system.

 

Gold does not hold back on his expressiveness. This is good but it can also get him in trouble now and then. But to deny him the same right that everyone else has, self-expression, would be very unfair.

 

Each and every one of us members have access to the "ignore" button.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of my Buddhist friends have already zapped me. Hehehe.

 

I think it is important that this board allow everyone self-expression regardless of our belief system. I think that this is one of the things that makes this board such a wonderful place to communicate with others.

 

This is my point of view and I do understand opposing points of view but we should ask if we want the same restrictions placed on us as we sometimes wish were placed on others.

 

Let us not destroy what has made this board the great place it is.

 

(I, personally, was just reminded of this recently.)

Thank you for taking the time to comment Marblehead.

It would be nice if you made your discussion public.

Would it be nice? Its not meant for entertainment you know.

 

 

Thank you. Now, if you think I am a bad person on the account of this statement, please moderate me or do whatever you think is right, but whatever you choose:

 

1. Please make all the facts of moderating actions public.

2. Please explain what is wrong with what I am saying, at least briefly.

 

I believe I am completely justified in my dislike of religion and I believe I am completely justified in singling out Abrahamic religions specifically.

I think you may have misunderstood the moderation rules. The relevant ones are no racism and no insults. We do not judge whether people are bad or not - that's impossible on here and is a common mistake among some posters who start attacking the person as if they know them, rather than the ideas. This is when they fall foul of moderation because they usually, through frustration or whatever start to give out insults.

A good example is where you at the beginning of this post - where you decided to reply to Steve (and not to me for some reason) by saying stop being a baby. How do you know he is being a baby? - maybe he's just exercising free will in deciding not to engage with you anymore.

As far as I know moderation actions are made for either blazingly obvious reasons or are explained. So no problem there at all. The Mod Team are discussing if there is a need to take action - not sure how long this will take given different time zones etc.

Apech for Mod Team

To me observant means something close to 'terrorist' and Osama bin Laden and to the crazy and disgusting Jews in Israel who keep harping about God's gift of land to them, with the only basis being dogma and nothing else. Those guys are observant. They are the true believers.

 

 

Whatever little intellectual value you bring to the table is negated by your ugliness for me.

You're simply not worth my time and energy.

Rather than go behind your back as you've accused me recently, I will appeal openly to the moderators with this post to hold you accountable for violating the forum rules against insults with your above comments.

Goodbye.

*** Moderator Message ***

Well I guess I should respond directly to this appeal. I'm sorry that this discussion has come to this as I was enjoying reading it. I felt that people were actually putting energy into debate rather than insult.

I assume the problem is the phrase "crazy, disgusting Jews in Israel" and is this statement either an insult or a form of racism. I had taken it to be an anti-Zionist sentiment on behalf of GiH or perhaps a criticism of their policy/activity of taking land off the Palestinians, erecting defensive (?) walls round Jerusalem and so on. As they are included with our ex-friend/fiend Mr. Bin Laden I think it is the extremist fundamentalist outlook which GiH is against and that he is not being antisemitic. Obviously I don't know if I am right about this unless GiH himself would like to clarify what he meant.

Since I think an antisemitic comment would not be acceptable and we would have to moderate it - I am appealing to GiH to clear this issue up. Then I hope you will both be able to continue your illuminating discussion on peer review and challenges within science and religion.

I will wait a short while, as there are time differences (I am in Europe) before doing anything else.

Thanks.

**** Apech for Mod Team ****

ah, Forgetting! That's a whole topic in itself. Do you find big chunks of stuff break away from your awareness land mass and melt? I do.

 

The pleasure of forgetting is very great, the more I forget the lighter I feel.

As in:

- "I came out here to forget."

- "Forget what?"

- "I can't remember ...."

PS. I wish I could forget more sometimes .....

 

 

And yes, believe it or not, I moderate myself already. I don't censor myself though and I never will. I believe I was suspended on this forum wrongly many times, and for excessive durations too. Frankly, moderators on this forum are dicks sometimes. They only think of themselves when they moderate. They even say, "it's our little home, and we do what we want here." How selfish is that? It's not your little home. It's a neutral meeting place for everyone who shares an interest. If you don't want to respect that, you have no right to pretend to a forum. Shame. And then you, whom I consider rather like a friend, goes ahead and supports these fools with your words. That's disappointing, to say the least.

 

 

Only sometimes? Well that's a start.

I don't think of myself when moderating. I remember a long PM exchange with you where all I was asking you to do was stop saying 'fuck you' to everyone. You refused. There is an insult policy. Its not hard to understand really. If you insult people you may get suspended ... that's it ... nothing else.

 

 

I don't believe in the permanent banning of any member from a Taoist forum. That just isn't very Taoist. But I do strongly support suspension for rule violation.

 

 

There is very little permanent banning mostly only suspensions of varying times - which means people come back automatically at the the end of the period. 99.9% of banning is spammers - which unless you want to read through endless movie downloads, porn and payday loans is necessary.

The other 0.1% are people who deliberately are trolling or perhaps multi-posting under different screen names in order to distort conversations or to influence others to come to an opinion about something which is to their advantage in some way - as with political spin doctoring - or something similar and have usually been through a few suspensions first before the whole thing becomes a time wasting exercise.

The no insult policy is the main ground for any action and I think the conversation here reflects well what Sean wanted from that. To me its about cultivating good conversation - and I think that is Taoist.