Apech

You sometimes will see that there are people these days who always like to portray the past religions and past spiritual traditions in a negative light. They like to blame the stumbling blocks, limitations, and mistakes in human history on Spirituality and Religion. However, in reality humanity is simply growing and progressing over time. Ultimately, building on the foundations of the past, progress is always made, and greater and greater understandings towards a higher spiritual ideal are ultimately realized.

 

3 major paradigm shifts in Human History-

http://childrenofthe...lisone-paradigm

 

Glossary of terms for the new millennium and future paradigms-

http://thegreatwhite...org/Amenti.html

Those three paradigms are a complete mish-mash of different ideas. Your main point seems reasonable, that humanity is 'progressing' over time but the sites you linked to are just full of unsubstantiated and rather strange assumptions. Also in the ancient world and many extant traditions we are not progressing but either fallen from grace. Why do we have to believe in beings living inside the earth who are more advanced? By the way Amenti is just Ancient Egyptian for 'West' or 'hidden' ... because the sun becomes hidden when it sets in the west.

@TM

Well thanks in return for your view.

I think that this idea of treating reality (in the life sciences) as dead comes from the same scientific paradigm which emerged in the late 17 Century. That is reality is an object which can be dissected, broken down into parts and therefore understood. Hence the tendency to kill things to understand them. What they are looking at of course is the gross precipitation of higher and more subtle life functions which they cannot detect.

The use of ancient ... what you call dead languages is not necessarily such a bad thing. For large periods of history Latin was the lingua franca of the intelligentia and a such allowed people from different countries to converse ... and thus promoted learning. Ancient Greek was interestingly enough the lingua franca of the Roman Empire and also the language through which the philosophy and science of the ancient world has come down to us (in the West). No bad thing in my view.

In the truly ancient world of course learning was the province of the priesthoods. Mathematics, geometry, architecture, medecine and so on were linked to a spiritual view. This view was preserved in subjects like alchemy (which even the likes Newton studied) and did not separate the spiritual from the empirical.

Empiricism does have a virtue though in that it has to try to explain facts. As much a scientific dogma may think it has the 'answer' always in every discipline, sooner or later, actual detectable physical effects undermine the standard model. By recording actual observable facts the scientist is actually able to move forward. For instance the penguin man saw homosexual behaviour at a time when such things were both illegal and socially unacceptable in human society ... despite being widely practiced. Sooner or later this forces a reassessment of homosexuality as un-natural or whatever. So I think there is something to be said for pragmatic empiricism as distinct to received and untested ideas.

Yes, I've read parts of it.

 

So, Apech, WHEN does our "real" "modern" "science" BEGIN? What's the zero hour? When did we start doing it exactly? What have we been doing before that date? How did we manage to get so scientific so recently without getting a clue in the prior one million years or so?

 

I submit the zero hour is "never." We don't have life sciences. We have manipulations, prejudice, meddling, playing god with zero qualifications, and making final-truth judgment calls based on prior brainwashing. It was so in 1911 and in 1611 and in 2011.

 

That's why I don't care WHEN they said what they said. They always say the same thing: "I am in the position of power to say what's natural and what's not." They write it on milk cartons -- "I say RBGH is perfectly fine and natural, so suck it up." They said it best in The Simpsons:

"Abortions for all! No abortions for anyone! Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!"

Well since you ask I would say that the modern scientific paradigm emerged in the mid 17 century to the beginning of the 18th. This is when for instance Alchemy and Chemistry first became separate disciplines. I think your assessment is a little harsh. I think there are scientist who are genuinely interested in the natural world and try to understand it (within the limits of the paradigm).

I think the funny thing about the article is that the scientist in 1911 projected his values onto the penguins. But he did observe and record presumably accurately and those bits of information can be used to increase understanding despite the fact that he did not himself understand. I think it was Marx who said society and the zeitgeist project the philosophy for the time ... so the prevalent ideas which gain general acceptance at different periods reflect the way in which people were living. So for instance a feudal society would propagate very different philosophies to democratic one and so on.

The scientist wrote about the activities of the penguins in Greek so that only educated people - which presumably means people sufficiently ok with ideas - could understand ... it was his judgement that others (i.e. the proles) would react strangely to the discoveries he had made. If it was discovered today I think this would not apply which is why it appeared in a mainstream newspaper. So the commentary or subtext of the article was that today we would not necessarily jump to the conclusion that the penguin activity was depraved and so on.

I do not share your view of science which seems entirely negative. Although I would naturally gravitate to Blake rather than Newton ... I still think that the insight of the application of mathematics to things such as the laws of motion and gravity is a significant and helpful breakthrough for mankind.

I don't understand the Simpson quote at all ... I have no idea what you are saying there.

quite so taomeow, thank you for the sanity

Er did you guys read the article it was about a scientist from 1911 who wrote this stuff up in Greek so the hoi poloi could not read it. That was the funny part ... i.e. the reflection on humans.

You could try this:

Imagine on the crown of your head a lump of gold-coloured butter.

 

- It slowly melts, and wherever it runs down over your body, all stress and tension in the body disappears.

- Very slowly the butter flows over your forehead, all muscles relax...

- It runs down over your eyes and cheeks..., your whole face relaxes.

- Along the back of your head... your neck... shoulders; feel how much tension is there and let it go....

- Arms and hands.... the chest.. belly....

- Along the spine, the entire back relaxes...your legs and feet...

- The entire body is covered in golden butter and you radiate health.

- Go over the whole body again and breathe out all the remaining stress.

 

Hi Apech. I like the idea of plodding alongside you.

 

 

Nice!

Ok we can take in the view and do some window shopping on the way .

Sexual depravity in penguins

Worse was to come, however. Levick spent the Antarctic summer of 1911-12 observing the colony of Adelies at Cape Adare, making him the only scientist to this day to have studied an entire breeding cycle there. During that time, he witnessed males having sex with other males and also with dead females, including several that had died the previous year. He also saw them sexually coerce females and chicks and occasionally kill them.

They need to remake that march of the penguins film. Sex with an ex is one thing ... but sex with an ex-ex!

I like the yellow ones.

Yeah, that was really the part I felt I could understand this man. I don't think he is a consciously manipulative or a self-gloriyfing guru, but moreso someone despite all the learnings of non-attachment, celibacy and what not, still has a great yearning for what we perceive to be basic human wants, i.e. companionship, intimacy, and... clubbing. And tries really hard to compromise his inner wants and constructed identity as a Geshe.

Based on a totally superficial and quick look at some of his Youtube vids I would say Michael Roach is very gifted man ... and probably a good man if maybe a little innocent.

I think sometimes people push themselves too hard to get power/enlightenment and it distorts them badly. Speaking as a plodder myself ... I am glad I am that way ... or at least I was caused to be that way by one of my teachers. He said 'no urgency' ... apply yourself with all the energy you can but do not rush. He also said 'to want means to lack' ... so if you really want power you lack power ... if you really want enlightenment then you lack it. Not sure I've done justice to this insight but maybe you see what he meant by this. In fact he used to say that if you look around at those who obviously want real power they will never get it ...hmmm

...so when his "partner" left him, he dressed in an Armani suit to go clubbing...it's like watching a satire..

 

http://www.nypost.co...g/issues/201002 /Monk+y+Business+Controversial+NYC+guru+Michael+Roach

 

He's been celibate since he was 22, but according to him celibacy is just semen retention: ""We are not allowed to have sex, but in yoga there are practices that involve joining with a partner,'' he explains. "They are secret, and you are not allowed to disclose them. You might think of them as sex, but their purpose is to move inner energy. It takes very strict training. There would be penetration, but no release of semen."

 

...meh. Why not just disrobe and teach his own message? I guess it's really the title of Geshe he leans on.

 

But I'm not sure the article does Michael Roach justice, I think he is a very interesting case study how someone decides to practice austerities for more than a decade under acclaimed tutelage, become rightfully certified by the teachers, but end up still bound to, as he put it, "high school drama."

 

This is a better article about John Friend I came upon a few months back which really goes to show that these teachers don't fully know what they are doing when teaching, they are very much uncertain of their paths themselves.

 

http://nymag.com/new...nd-yoga-2012-4/

Its one thing to be gifted intelligent and well taught in a school of practice and another to be genuinely wise and enlightened.

Like this

Ah right ... that's how Egyptian obelisks are suppose to be ... with the sun on the point. All goes back to the creation myth. A mound or stone called the Benben emerges from the infinite waters of the void (called the Nun) and as it does so the sun rises over it. It is a recreation of the zep tawy - first time - the moment when the perceived world comes into existence ... as in 'let there be light'. the sun is Ra of course. All pyramids and temple in Egypt were recreations of this scene.

Weird but strangely fascinating read the comments on this blog:

Blog page

... ?

Have you found the photo? Is it online?

 

...

 

Nobody's addressing the fact that 40% of us gov spending is borrowed (heres where I'll tie it in apech) ...which means that it is necessarily going to have to shrink. No "solution" that does not include trimming back the all too generous entitlements winds up making mathematical sense. What is going to happen when the euro finishes blowing up and dying and the us bank's exposures really become manifest? The programs have fundamental flaws and if they are not addressed in a reasonable fashion it is not if but when will there be unresolvable fiscal problems.

 

...

Well thanks for tying me in ... I think. And congrats on mentioning the euro at least I understood that bit.

The eurozone is a disaster because it was an economic policy based on a) a political ideology b ) an attempt to rival the dollar as a currency of choice.

The only thing that makes any sense to me economically is that wealth is based on something ... either raw materials, products from those materials or services that people/countries need. That's it ... nothing else. Everything that governments do that does not accord with this is based on their own self interest or delusions of greatness. So I think economic policy has to be based on ways of creating wealth and not on speculation, currency manipulation, quantitive easing or anything else.

The Eurozone should be dismantled and each country should have its own currency which links directly to the GDP of that country. instead of waiting for Greece, then Portugal, Spain and Italy to tumble they should act now to deconstruct the whole edifice ... in as controlled and least expensive way that they can.

LZ would say go back to basics in the sense of study what makes this thing (the Global Economy) work and harmonize with it.

Thanks but I've just checked and the term is Gestaltsfahige(n) (with two dots over the a).

It comes together with these other terms:

Verkorperung(en) and Erscheinungsbild(er)

They are all used by an Egyptologist called Wolf-Brinkmann to describe the concept of the Ba. So maybe they are technical/philosophical terms.

V do you type that every time or do you have it saved to a notepad file? This has got to be like the 15th time you've posted it damn near verbatim.

 

Maybe there's a person or two out there that hasn't seen it yet

 

All we're seeing is you disparaging a group of people and offering Jack for ideas. How do you think lz would view ss, Medicare Medicaid and the overtaking of just about all the tax monies the gov takes in, just on those line items alone? And borrowing the rest for whatever gov outlays there are? Not very responsible. Would he say the gov is doing too much, spending too much, or would he say let's just raise taxes to match what the gov thinks it should have the power to do?

Could you translate that for non-americans? I assume the ss is not Hitlers storm troopers.

How should a Taoist view taxes anyway. You can't run a modern (or any) state without them. And I am sure in Ancient China there were plenty of bushels of rice going the way of the sage-king. Is the criticism about efficiency ... i.e. any taxes raised should be spent on things that profit the state and therefore everyone and not on wasteful ideologically based policies???

Can anyone tell me what Gestaltfahigkeit means?

Thanks.

"Jouir" is the infinitive, it is the same as writing 'to enjoy'

You may rather write " jouis" (imperative form).

 

But "jouir" has some sexual connotation also...

The appropriate verb would be "profiter" which, in this case, you would conjugate as "profite"

 

Thanks a lot

Muito obrigado!

 

I am in a hurry now, but I would to say that I have visited Portugal and encountered a lot a very nice people there. I love this country!

Ah. Thank you for the French lesson. I was trying to translate the expression 'enjoy' as you imperative not infinitive so I stand corrected. I didn't realise there was a sexual connotation ... ha ha!

'I love this country' ... means where you are now ... presumably France ... so you should say 'I love that country' ... if you mean Portugal. ... ... but otherwise I have to say your English is excellent ...

Portugal is indeed a lovely place.

Hope you enjoy (profit from) your ppf.

Hi Apech,

 

Guess what?

 

I am very impressed by Dainin journal, I would like the same

 

If you can't replicate it exactly, a blank one would do the trick..

 

Thanks a lot for your overall work!

 

 

 

Done. You can set it up how you like. Just use New Topic to open a thread.

Jouir.

You can't delete ... just stop using.

LZ lived in a different time and culture and is it appropriate to apply his writings to the present?

 

What some may view as a government nanny state is a response to real human need. Social programs such as the 'The Great Society' program started by Linden Johnson was an attempt to solve the problem of abject poverty in extremely depressed areas in the U.S. I grew up bordering what was classified as Appalachia in the 60's and the poverty was horrific. I have traveled in the backwoods of Louisiana and Mississippi where poverty is a way of life. Very little educational opportunities and certainly no or very little business environment where a decent living can be earned. The problem is usually compounded by extremely low wages.

What I was referring to as the nanny state has nothing to do with the Great Society. In the country where I live now, Portugal the literacy rate in 1970's was about 40% because of an oppressive right wing government which lasted from 30's till a communist revolution (bloodless in the 70's). There are still many in the older generation who cannot read or write and who had to leave schooling at 10,11 and 12 years old. Lifting people out of poverty - or providing the opportunities for people to do it for themselves is not nanny-state. Nanny state is where the state decides it must rule on detailed aspects of daily life through legislation. i.e. nothing to do with real human need.

There seems to be an overall thrust in the TTC which aims at government doing less. However what I am arguing is that if a Taoist administration were to come to power (unlikely I know) it would have to deal with the reality of the situation as of now. So what principles could be distilled from TTC etc. which would inform the programme of this new government? I think that a Taoist would be able to support the idea of individual liberty as defined by the ideals of western liberalism (small 'l') because I doubt if a Taoist would want to legislate about how people lived their day to day lives. i.e. not a nanny state.