Apech

22 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Wasn't elaborate enough? I can expand if you want. 

 

Actually it was a complete answer if understood fully. 

 

The question was if I understood you well. Who is doing the identification right? 

 

And the answer. "Identity is the consequence of your perception of reality" it's a complete answer in itself. 

 

Depending on what part you didn't understand I can elaborate. 

I thought it was too elaborate.  But I won’t interfere with the flow of the thread any more.

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

 

Damn. 

 

I would say identity is the consequence of some distorted perception of reality. When perception of reality becomes clean and true. Identity becomes God, oneness, emptyness etc. 

That’s a nice bit of waffle.

👍

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Just focus on this one sentence. If change happen on the level of body and identity remained intact. Should it be called transbody appearance or transidentity? It's not that hard question imo. 

 

Or another simple question would be. 

 

Why would you call it transidentity if no change happens on the level of identity? 

What is it that does the identifying?

There’s Egyptian pictures but I don’t have the link.

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I thought twice about it too after you mentioned that you "fear to go there."  I haven't got as much steam for "controversial" subjects as I used to.  And way too many stories to tell on top of that...  no steam for telling them because not every political climate allows for the  freedom of, um, speech (among other things), and the current one is very evocative of what I used to know and hate and fear in the Soviet Union.  Just the flip side of the same counterfeit coin.  

 

So, I'm not sure it was a good idea after all...  

 

  

Gosh that makes me want to know even more what you were going to say.

I was remembering that my father used to speak very fondly of the Russians (he also had some links to Russian academics) and that he recalled a fairly famous scientist called Dirac who used to toast every Russian victory in 1940's Cambridge.  There was a definite sense in Britain before the Cold War really set in that Russia was our saviour against fascism.  The US also but the sacrifice made by the Soviets was so much greater.

He also told me that in around 1970 he went as a delegate to the Russian embassy in London and all the staff greeted them by saying 'we believe in peace, don't you too?' - he was very impressed by this.  Being me, I did point out that only two years before the tanks had rolled into Prague ... but it didn't seem to damped his enthusiasm.

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

I hope that when I insult you, you dont think I am doing it because you are English  ?  

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The English practice insult aikido  - when the insult arrives they assume you are just insulting them because you recognize their natural superiority and so the insult becomes praise.

19 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

this is Rotterdam in 1930, the city were my dad grew up, he was 10 in 1930. He walked those street, probably doing the things that boys do at that age, hanging out at the kays, looking at the ships.

start at 4.30  the first part is panoramic.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

this is what happened when he was 20, when I saw ( and see) ruined cities in Ukraine or gaza I always see the pain in my dads eyes.

My mom was at home with her mom and her younger sister in a town close by Rotterdam, they could see and hear the bombs falling and my gran had to grab my mom preventing her running towards the city that held her lover. Gramp had died shortly before, much too young from a nasty illness.

 

"Whether he lives or is dead, I will not let you run into an untimely death, you stay here"

 

dad came out of it, physically unscarred but it kept living on in him, in his soul.

 

That is why all the current wars hurt me so, so many people will be maimed and dead and their homes destroyed and for generations the trauma will carry on.

 

They will carry the pain in their souls for generations.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYFUfYeQIQ

 

 

and then the last winter, the Germans were inevitably losing but they kept up in the western half of the netherlands, traditionally the richest part of my country, Rotterdam was and is a big harbor which is teeming with activity.

 

My mom, then 22 arranged for her younger sister ( around 15 i think) to be brought to family in a rural part and although granny opposed it, it happened as she said and my aunt went to a farm were there was food.

 

that winter was very cold and there was hardly anything to make fire and there was no food, people went out to farms to beg for food, or to barter for jewelry, anything.

Flowerbulbs were eaten

 

my mom never really wanted to tell things from the war but this she told me: one day we had a slice of bread, one slice for several people so we carefully divided that slice in as many parts as there were people ( 8 i think) and we were all slowly chewing and savoring the taste of real bread. Then someone knocked on the door and came in. We all felt guilty because he could not share in the bread anymore.

 

one bite of bread ...

 

the dutch winter of hunger - 1944-1945

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.hongerwinter.nl/portfolio-item/531/

 

when I see pictures of Gazan children, i see this too

 

later, much later I did talk a bit about it with my mom, she told me of 1962, the year of the Cuba crisis. That she was so scared, what possessed me she told me, to intentionally become pregnant again, how will we take care of 5 children and a new baby when war rolls over us again. We hardly survived when there was only the 2 of us.

 

that way war trauma flips over to the next generation, we did not live through it, but we were reared with parents who did and we came off lightly I guess.

 

The babysit of my son had no family except for her parents, all family of the parents had been killed in concentration-camps, i shudder to think about it, what imprint that leaves.

 

 

Although I have no harrowing stories like this I have the same feeling about Ukraine and Gaza ... even WWI was called 'the war to end all wars' and even more after Nuremberg they swore there would be peace, that we loved peace - but now it seems we have forgotten.  I think if we had a thread on WWII you would have to put up with my historical musings about why and what are the causes of these disasters ...  I would like to talk about it but fear to go there.

Just now, Taomeow said:

@blue eyed snake Thanks for telling the story.  I didn't know it was this bad in the Netherlands, by the way...  There's never been a thread here that I recall dedicated to WW2 -- everybody is too young to have been part of it personally (I think), but family, previous generations -- some of us heard many first-hand accounts of what it was like.  Tragic, heroic, terrifying, or just "during the war we sometimes couldn't even buy chicken for a reasonable price" (an American relative of mine, my mom's cousin, sharing memories of wartime privations).  I think it might be interesting to start such a thread sometime.  

It would be interesting- the war loomed large over my childhood (as a recent memory of my family and so on - even I am too young to actually remember it).

It certainly changed the world forever.

26 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Not even the French? 

 

A French friend of mine here in CA is Anglophilic to the core, and another one, who's British, who has dropped out of school at 15 and wouldn't be able to tell Shakespeare from Dickens if his life depended on, loves it here because people usually assume he's a college professor based on his accent alone.  Whereas I've witnessed another friend, a Russian, who IS a college professor (genetics), treated by strangers as an uncouth ignoramus and talked down to like she's 5.  

  

How did you guys pull it off?  

With irony of course.  
 

PS with the possible exception of Sweden and somewhere forgettable in Sputh America there isn’t a country in the world we haven’t fought, invaded or screwed over in some way.

9 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I caught myself "yes but-ting"

 

You're right.

 

were does it come from?

I am from Europe, my parents lived through WW2 as young adults, I know their fear for Russia(ns) never faded but in the last part of their life the emotions towards Germans seem to have disappeared.

 

Luckily no one insults the English.

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Probably people from Eastern Ukraine, overwhelmingly speaking Russian as their first (and often only) language and culturally (as well as ethnically) indistinguishable from Russians (unless they belong to one of the 100+  minorities also living there.)  I seem to recall you posted a video at one point where someone British attempted to explain the real history of Ukraine.  I didn't watch it all but the bits and pieces that I did see seemed on point.  Nothing is as straightforward there as the official narrative has led most people to believe.    

They were displaced when the dam was blown up at the beginning of what was supposed to be the ‘counter offensive’ last summer.

12 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Yup.  Especially considering that it's not some fleeting trend, it's a reliable, solid tradition that's a no brainer to embrace.  To illustrate how hoary and respectable it is, here, e.g., is a popular depiction of a Russian from a very successful 19th century American magazine of "humorous" cartoons:

 

  

We have some ‘Ukrainian’ refugees in the village now - they bought a house and have been very industrious in repairing the house and garden.  Then someone noticed that they were speaking Russian and not Ukrainian and when asked they said they supported Putin.  So it’s a funny old world.  They are extremely friendly and good neighbours.  
 

I realize this is irrelevant but I just thought I’d mention it.

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Because they're comfortable with a certain level of transphobia and probably aren't aware of it, or are clever enough to cover it with well chosen speech? 

 

Asking for a friend.

I considered reporting this hateful slur but I will in the circumstances let it pass.  

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

The guy I was responding to sure did and you didn't say anything to him about what he said. How come?

Both you and silent thunder had already reported him by the time I read his post.

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Transphobic comments are not allowed. How come you didn't say anything about that?

You didn’t say anything transphobic.

9 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Wow.  Just wow.

 

What does this mean?

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Why do you have more issue with me calling him a prick than him acting like one?

I used to be a moderator and it is one of the basic rules - no ad hominem attacks.  

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

 

This is not what someone says when they are trying to understand. 

There is no compulsion to understand or even to try - he has his view and that’s his right ( which everyone has) .

49 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I think this again goes back to sex verses gender, which Jadeprick does not seem to understand or want to understand. 

Calling him jadeprick and not jadespear is a rule violation and undermines your argument.  Also I would say that a large percentage of people don’t understand the difference between gender and sex.  I don’t know if they want to understand or not but it isn’t a crime not to.

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

will print it and read, lately my brain does not work as it used to.

 

I think, as a kid I did not categorize in good and bad, I was not taught about it and I hardly ever met it. Meaning, the bad things were just not within my little circle of knowledge. I did not learn religion either, so the concepts of good and bad arrived quite late.

 

uhm, there was a big dog that I had to pass when going to that little lake. He scared me every time with loud barking,  but not bad- I was sorry for him as he was chained and locked away always. I was happy he could not reach me but sad he was locked up.

and there was a teacher I did not like (at all) but she was not bad, just not nice.

 

I mean, I was bad when i came home full of mud and forgot to remove my wellies but it was not a " heavy bad" it was just a child's bad.

 

when I was about 14 someone brought me to a young man, 20 I think and that shook me, there was something bad going on.

I sensed somehow his real person was overshadowed by someone else, what I now would call an entity or maybe a demon. I felt helpless but i spoke to him in a soothing voice and listened to his ramblings. I tried to imprint on him that his real persona was still there, that he would be allright, would come out of this and did the things I did when someone was in pain.

 

and only now the thought strikes me: so someone led you, a 14 year-old, to this raving babbling man, thinking you could do some good , would be able to help

 

Now, much older with some eddication behind my belt, i would dx probable psychosis, which does not rule out a demon or such. its just a different perspective and they can be true simultaneously.

But then I was shook to my core as there was something real bad going on.

 

later I heard he was brought to a psychiatric-ward. 

 
Why did they bring him to you?

13 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes he did, but only about the short 20 years of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_IV,_Holy_Roman_Emperor  at most, more likely only about his coronation circumstances, not the entire 1000 year old history of the HRE. (had to get that off my chest, had i )

thats true. if it was unconscious we would not know if it is there. collective is wrong too, its just the humanity sharing  the same hardware which gives rise to the same archetypes 

Thank you - interesting if a little pedantic

23 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I find this topic "interesting" since my ex was Russian lol. I can tell you all about how Russian's "love" haha. 

If you take their head off is there a smaller one inside?

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

( removed the above, really interesting though, I am not too familiar with the Egyptian practices and cosmology )

 

For the quoted part it's two cases/two possibilities.

 

One is static information that we all have at birth and overlaps, such is the postulation of the collective unconscious and perhaps epigenetics will provide an answer. In this case the worlds are not real as in realities parallel to this one, they are real as in genetically inherited information that we all have in us.

Was it Voltaire who said of the Holy Roman Empire - that it was neither Holy or Roman or an Empire?  I would say the same of the collective unconscious - it is an awful term and is neither collective or unconscious.   I agree that genetics is a fascinating study but at the end of the day it is just looking at the residue of long body memory.

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

The other possibility is that the places are real and archetypes are not from our psyche but rather they link us with the said (real) places. This would be a full blown version of the Unus Mundus.

 

So the question becomes, given an experience, which of the two options it's more consistent with.

First answer what 'real' means in this context.  For instance what is real is that which can be divided and put back together without losing its essential nature.   The answer would have to be something like consciousness or spirit itself.  In which case your Unus Mundus would be a world of intelligent energy (qi for example) and not of insensate matter.

46 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

People also draw similar maps for the lower world ( not identical though ) from their journeying, the question is if this archetypical information we all have in us or instead these are real places / what we perceive as spirits are parts of our psyche or something external.

 

Or to reframe, where would someone place the boundary for an experience to indicate something as external, given our own psyches have amazing resources we're not consciously aware of.

From my own studies I know that ancient cultures (particularly the Egyptians) spent a lot of energy mapping the 'otherworld' and to do this they used what we might call cognitive mapping techniques.  They journeyed the 'otherowlrd' which they called the Dwat and used objects from everyday experience, trees, rivers, mountains and so on to describe it.  From this they made descriptions of the otherworld for use in bth funerary and living practice.  One of these was call Amduat or 'what is in the Dwat'.

Obviously these maps would not be identical to something produced by say, the Chinese or South American cultures because the terrain, flora and fauna would vary and so the images of the other world used in the cognitive mapping would be different.  As one would expect.  Having said that there are structural similarities in the world view in all these cultures because they inherit what is basically a 'shamanistic' - to use that term in its broadly developed sense - view which was probably shared by all humans from earliest times.

That these maps can be applied from person to person indicates they are beyond what would usually be called subjective or individual.  That they are effective and 'work' in terms of the processes of the soul means they are real - in the sense of effective.  That they can be communicated and understood makes them as or more dependable than the 'external' world (which is itself a kind of projection - or at least a creation of an interaction  between the observer and the observed).

If knowledge gained in otherworld journeys is applicable then it is valid.