dwai

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

What about your native tongue?  When you are born, does it already exist in you or is it created in you?  

That seems like a false equivalence to me

Language is an acquired skill. Lifeforce is not. We either have it, or we are dead  

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

A dantien, as a very knowledgeable practitioner explained to me (then a beginner) a long time ago, is a product of co-creation between your innate potential and your exposures and practices.  In that sense it is no different from being able to acquire a native tongue -- I don't speak yours and you don't speak mine, but we were each both born with the ability to develop either one of them, it's exposures and practices that made it happen -- and being different, they resulted in different languages.  "They already exist" -- well, as a potential.  But exposures and practices is what turns them on.  Or not.  Does everybody (barring any kind of damage that might interfere) have machinery to acquire language?  Yes.  Is everybody born speaking it?  Nope.  And if you're raised by animals from an early enough age and miss the window of opportunity that is open only up to a certain age, you will never speak -- real-life stories of this nature are well known.  Real-life stories of inactive dantiens are not as obvious, but then, neither are stories of active ones.  It's subtle phenomena, but they are phenomena of co-creation, like many other things about us humans.

I disagree. It doesn't exist merely as a potential - it exists simply by being alive (qi, if I may call it that). What might happen, IMHO, is that one's exposure and practices refine it/enhance it. 

On 12/25/2023 at 12:58 PM, Taomeow said:

 

Or, by another name, the "yellow sprouts court." 

 

What's the dantien for?  It's like any other potential that you can develop and use for whatever you're aiming to accomplish.  In this sense it's no different from the ability to acquire language, to read and write, to ride a bicycle, to juggle a dozen tennis balls, to form an emotional relationship with a human or animal or even a device. (Song in the background: "I'm In Love With My Car.")  You are born with the potential; you may learn to use this potential spontaneously upon exposure to whatever tools help it actualize, or (more often) via a particular set of practices that develop it.  

 

What do we develop the dantien for?  It's like asking what our writing ability is for.  Once you got it, how you refine and use it is your choice.  Become Shakespeare or get into arguments with strangers online.  Or both.   

I was thinking more along the lines of “what is the heart for” or “liver for” and so on. Dantiens are NOT created, they already exist. 

Happy New Year!! 

12 hours ago, Sahaja said:

Having been on the receiving end of both (joint locking and using internal energy to uproot someone), they are very different. Joint locking involves pretty straightforward physical techniques using your physical leverage and muscular strength to attack weak points to subdue and control the opponent where as the various uprooting techniques (which there are a number)  in internal martial arts are much more subtle involving interaction of mind body and qi. They require control of your own physical and energetic  response to being in contact with the other person so you can go inside to influence their reaction (essentially make them lose their balance or root  with your qi and a very small amount of force to trigger it).  There are also some partially external physical  partially internal subtle techniques such as rebounding that will “give serious air to someone”. To me these subtle internal methods are much more about learning how to develop and control your mind, body and qi interaction than they are about learning practical self defense. 

There are practical self-defense applications, too, but getting there takes a long time. Those applications are a side effect of the cultivation - not the goal. 

Happy New Year!!!

I will continue with Tai Chi, and meditation. I am also actively composing music again, so will keep up with that. And finish writing my second novel. And workout more regularly, and lose weight

My friends and I made a video going over how we approach sticking power (na Jin). Thought I’d share in case people are interested in it. Also will be happy to discuss details if there is interest on the topic. 
 

In our system we approach it differently from other schools.

I appreciate all that contribute in the spirit of growing together, be it in collaboration or in opposition (of perspectives). 
 

I also echo Steve’s thoughts, and hope that we can become a truly multi-tradition, diverse group of seekers who want to keep growing, support each other, and be genuinely kind to each other.

45 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

Is it a Hindu teaching or Buddhist, or your own research?

This is a Hindu teaching. I have verified empirically 

To understand karma one has to understand the layers of existence in the transactional reality. The physical body (called the sthula sharira) is just a tiny part of the whole. There is a subtle body (called linga sharira) which is rooted in a causal body (karana sharira). All karmic effects come from this karana sharira. Think of it as a seed state which stores all the consequences of our karma (actions). 
 

When we come into the transactional realm, a part of those karma phala (consequences of our past actions) are brought with us. It is easily understood in the form of certain traits or predilections we might have from a very young age. Some are activated at other key points in our lives (eg when we turn 23-25). These affect how we live and act/react in the world. 

3 hours ago, stirling said:

 

It seems that I am unlikely to write posts that you find satisfactory. It is honestly OK to block me if something about my posts seems to upset you, Bob.

Mostly I’ve noticed that those who react in such a manner are the ones in need of introspection. The way I see it, it boils down to one of two options -

1. Is their conviction about some other contrary point of view so weak that a post (or even several) will provoke them to react ?

2. Is it possible that the words that provoke them are causing some kind of cognitive dissonance that they have to protest against? “A case of, me doth think that thou dost protesteth too much…” 

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

Maybe somebody  knows?

A feeling deep within you that makes you question your beliefs and your ego reacts? 

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

umm, you have already let all know you are a this and or that teacher several times , so I'd say there is no need to keep tooting your horn along that line.

Why this line of combativeness? What is it that rankles you about stirling’s posts? 

Real emptiness is simply awareness empty of “things”  

Then it becomes aware background whether there are things or not. 

3 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

I got curious about the qi circle! Sounds very interesting.

Which lineage and which sifu practice the standing qi circle method you mentioned?

I do believe that cultivators can do great things together if they combine their energy, however these synergistic methods are not that often taught or used openly from what I've seen so far.

I practice Temple style Tai Chi which is a Daoist system - it focuses heavily on neigong/dagong.

The circle meditation has a few variations; at the most basic level, it involves a group of up to 8 people standing in a circle and building up a vortex of energy in the center of the circle - think of each member connecting to the vortex/pillar of energy with their 3 dantiens. With our collective intent, we make the vortex stronger and it will engulf us and expand into the space surrounding us. It helps boost the practitioners - acting like an amplifier. 

The best way to "build" qi is to still the mind.

There are two potential problems with stilling the mind  -

• The mind is scattered (too many thoughts, in too many directions)
• The mind is polluted (very self-centered, greedy, grasping)

The remedy for a scattered mind is to do practices that make the mind one-pointed. Mantra mediation, breath watching, breathwork will help with that. In fact, any repetitive task can be used to do this by being watching and observing the mind continuously through the practice.

The remedy for a polluted mind is to do selfless service - volunteer at a soup kitchen, hospital etc. As we do more service, the mind gets purified.

After that, real mediation can start. And stillness realized.

56 minutes ago, Bai Xi said:

What a vile wretch, what are you trying to say that you like breaking into houses? 

has never accurately recieved Jing, has been cruel to their Meridians, Unable to become a Psyker

Some people are just cruel, all you dogs can laugh at is my Ego.

Bye bye. 

I've been practicing standing as part of my Tai chi practice for a good part for about 23 years now. Standing has many benefits - it helps us learn how to sink the qi down to the dantien, it helps us release physical tensions and grounds the nervous system. 

One should build up standing over a period of time - little by little, 5-10 min increments until you can stand for extended periods of time. When I visit my master, we do daoist circle meditation where several of us stand in a circle and meditate, with sifu pumping energy into the circle. After a while, my feet feel like they've been water - the yin qi rises up and the yang qi sinks down - merges in the lower dantien.

One more thing to beware of is, after standing, always do some moving meditation to recirculate the energy that is built up, otherwise the kidneys can get damaged. 

If I remember correctly, Wang Liping had a theory about how the LDT location changes based on how close one is to the equator. But it certainly is below the navel. 

This is Google Bard's description of Wang Liping's theory (I first read it in Opening the Dragon Gate) -

Quote

He believed that the Lower Dan Tien is located at a point that is 1/3 of the distance from the navel to the perineum, and that this point is located closer to the navel for people who live in colder climates and closer to the perineum for people who live in warmer climates.

Wang Liping's theory is based on the idea that the body's energy centers, or Dantians, are aligned with the Earth's magnetic field. The Earth's magnetic field is strongest at the poles and weakest at the equator. Therefore, Wang Liping believed that the Lower Dan Tien would be located closer to the navel for people who live in colder climates, where the Earth's magnetic field is stronger, and closer to the perineum for people who live in warmer climates, where the Earth's magnetic field is weaker.

1 hour ago, Sahaja said:

I do prefer living in a world that is real to one that is illusory

When Shankara says "mithya" he doesn't mean the world is illusory in the transactional sense. Anything that is impermanent, changing, and transient is called "mithya." That begs the question, impermanent in comparison to what? Brahman - Pure Consciousness. 

This might give you a better perspective of Brahman -

https://www.medhajournal.com/close-encounters-of-the-fourth-kind/

1 hour ago, Sahaja said:

Good question. We need to ask Shankara what he meant  by maya being conceptually distinct from Brahman.  Though saying that siva and sakti are two views of one thing that is indivisible subordinating Maya to a lower tattva isn’t exactly clear either, though I do prefer living in a world that is real to one that is illusory.
 

Did Shankara say that? Maya is called anirvachaniya - it is neither real nor unreal. It seems real until it is realized to be unreal. 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

The point is, criticising the word choice "what you call mind" is inappropriate.  I didn't choose that word.

 

 

What relevance does it have?  The words you've chosen are not defined there?  It's completely unrelated.

I was pointing you to look at the mind-consciousness-impressions-memories from two separate lens (one the Zen Buddhist, and the other the Advaita Vedantin). 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

 

What is preventing it from being pulled forth?

Context. In our lives we have possibly billions of memories. Do we recall all of them all the time? Of course not. In my experience, even the seemingly mysterious reappearance of a long-forgotten memory has a trigger in the senses - a whiff of a scent, a conversation, a specific feeling of vibration in the space (we call these tanmatras), it could be any of these that trigger a memory. The sequence goes - 

Sensory stimulus -> intellect (buddhi) tries to correlate with storehouse of memories and impressions (chitta) -> a match occurs -> pulled into the mind (chitta) --> labeled by the ego (ahamkara)

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

And, may we review for a moment?  Maybe take a detour?

 

Chaitanya?  = "empty/clear-light-of-knowing"?  What was previously referred to as "awareness"?  Is this also what should be used instead of "thought"?

Not thought. Thoughts are objects with names and/or forms (nama-rupa). 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

The quad: manas-chitta-buddhi-ahamkara?  Does this quad have a name?

Antahkarana

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Manas?  "the reflected concsciousness"?  Is this where "being-ness" is reflected?

Yes. The thought-field aka manas, is part of the subtle body that I refer to in my article. 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Buddhi?  you wrote this is "pulling"?  Was that an intentional word choice?  It "pulls"?  What is "driving" it?  What directs the buddhi to pull the specific impression from chitta?  Of all the impressions that are collected there ( hopefully "collected" is a good word for this ), what is making the selection?

See the second paragraph 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Ahamkara?  The ego?  ( public enemy #1.  I'm kidding. It's everyone's favorite scapegoat. )  You wrote the memory is "appropriated".  That's interesting.  I would very much appreciate elaboration on this appropriation?  It's claiming the memory as itself? 

 

yes - it is nothing as sinister as its made out to be. It is just a function of the antahkarana - its job is to label and claim ownership. For instance, when you inquire "who am I?", the ego labels your first thoughtless impression with the label "Daniel-Joseph", which then appears as a thought in your manas as "I am Daniel-Joseph". This is true for any and all things that one experiences. All of these are labeled, and ownership claimed by this process. 

1 hour ago, Sahaja said:

I think the Buddha had a break through insight with dependent origination. However trying to graft on prevailing views such as  karma and transmigration on it was not intrinsically a good fit. Though his reorienting of karma away from actions  more to intentions probably saved a few yogis lives!. Advaita Vedanta’s secret sauce of illusion is a good concept but becomes  a bit unwieldy when it gets separated from Brahman. Still Advaita?  I guess any philosophy can have a part that is a little clunky though perhaps a leap of faith would create less headaches than trying to prove everything logically. Since most of us are still subject to duality trying to have a nondual discussion based on logic is pretty tricky. 

What is separated from Brahman?  

40 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

 

Just a note, I'm using the same word choices you are using.  "Thought" and "Mind" are your word choices. 

I'm just trying to help you by using common syntax. 

40 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

 

Not helpful.

Too bad it didn't help you. 

40 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

 

Seems perfectly reasonable.  We're discussing forgotten-memories.  A memory is an impression stored in the chitta.  What happens when it is forgotten?
 

It is still in the chitta - only not pulled forth by the buddhi. When the conditions are right, the memory will be pulled into the manas.  

23 hours ago, Daniel said:

The forgotten-memory which is remembered exists beyond thought.  The forgotten-memory which is remembered exists prior to appearing in the mind.  When it is remembered it is a thought appearing in the mind.  Before it is remembered, it is not thought.

I would say that all memories and impressions are stored in a function of our antahakarana called the chitta. This is the storehouse of such impressions and any/all memories, feelings arise from it. These are then viewed in the reflected consciousness that is the mind (manas) by the intellect (buddhi), and appropriated by the ego (ahamkara). Never has it ever been apart from the mind (which is actually a subcomponent of the quad of manas-chitta-buddhi-ahamkara). 

What you call "mind" is actually a poorly articulated version of what I wrote above, and reflects the muddled-up understanding of the west when it comes to these "internal" subjects.  

P.S. In order to better understand what I'm articulating here, read this article that I'd written a few years back. - https://www.medhajournal.com/consciousness-according-to-zen-buddhism-and-how-it-relates-to-advaita-vedanta/

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

There is no thought of the letter 'g' described in what you wrote above.  Let's try again.

 

Here is what you wrote:

 

"You got I am Daniel-Joseph without a single thought?"

 

What was your thought about the letter "g" in "thought"?

 

When you typed your reply, where is the thought of 'g' in 't-h-o-u-g-h-t'?  Why include it?  What is the signifcance of it.  What is the thought of 'g' in your mind while you were typing it?

I don't know about you, but I can read and write 5 different languages. I need to think about the syntax, grammar, etc for each one of them. The time we spent in spelling as students, is able to provide us with both the practice to help us spell "automagically" (also thinking involved there), and intuitively when we don't exactly know the spelling (also a thought-process). It just happens so fast that you might feel it is involuntary. That also tells me that you've not really spent much time meditating - if you had, you would have the experiential knowledge of how the mind works. No problem there - experienced meditators are a rarity, even though everyone and their uncle seems to claim that they meditate

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

 

... which is in large part thoughtless.  Not in a bad way.  In a good way.  it's natural.

Nope. Not thoughtless at all. Though I spend a large portion of my day without any thoughts. 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

What was your thought about the letter 'h' in the word 'r-i-g-h-t'?  What is the significance of it?  What was your thought about that letter?

 

I think the honest answer is, you weren't thinking of the letter 'h' at all.  It's just a letter which is automatically included in the word 'right' when the word 'right' is recalled from your vocabulary.  Everytime you type a reply or form a word.  The components which make up the words produced have no corresponding thought.  If they did, you would be able to tell me the significance of the letters chosen and why.  

The honest answer is what I told you in my first response.