liminal_luke

Spotless, Sounds like you are getting neigong-type benefits from your qigong practice. Perhaps, because of your previous practice, when you do qigong it is neigong. We are all so different. Respect. Liminal

So spirits are, in one view, projections of parts of ourselves that we have externalized? Would learning to do magic then be similar to the shamanic practice of soul retrieval? Are we reconnecting inside with these aspects of our being that we´d previously denied? If so, that sounds very psychological. Sounds not very different from much spiritual practice generally. Is this the way experienced magicians experience it?

Spotless, I think qigong is a "beginner´s practice" when seen against the backdrop of deeper Taoist alchemical work, in the same way that the postures of hatha yoga are a "beginner´s practice" when seen against the backdrop of yogic meditation -- the scope of what´s being attempted is simply different, and less profound, by definition. It´s not that hatha yoga postures, or qigong, or martial arts, for that matter, are easy. To really be adept at any of those disciplines is certainly not easy. And they can be very worthwhile pursuits. But, as you point out, what can be accomplished with yoga postures or martial arts pales in comparison to meditation. In a similar way, there´s a world beyond qigong that make attainments at that level seem relatively small. Liminal

I may be way out of my depth here, but....I thought magic was about developing relationships with spirits, angels and demons and so on. And then being able to ask them to do favors for you, which under the right magical circumstances they´d be glad to oblige. Am I way off here? For this reason, I haven´t been so interested. I believe in the existence of such spirits, and trust that when I get to a certain point in my training I´ll become more aware of their existence. But I personally don´t want to chase after such experiences. Maybe it´s just stubborn self-sufficiency: I´m more interested in figuring out what I can do strictly on my own, without help from other beings seen or unseen. I want to become more integrated in my being so that what the little-me says I want more closely aligns with what my larger SELF needs on a destiny level. As it is now, recruiting spirits to do my bidding doesn´t seem like such a good idea because I´m not really sure what I want is what I need. Does that make sense? Perhaps though, there´s something to this whole magic thing I´m not seeing. I am interested in Tarot. Not sure if that´s magic or not. Liminal

Hi Songstan, Perhaps you are, as you say, a narcissist. Certainly everyone has narcissistic traits and it´s good to recognize this. But...my understanding is that deeply narcissistic people wouldn´t be aware of themselves that way. So if you say you´re a narcissist you probably aren´t, at least not in the clinical full-blown "personality disorder" meaning of the term. Liminal

My naturopath used to organize his music collection in seven piles according to which chakra the music activated. Perhaps you should take up yoga?

Thanks for mentioning Lam Kam Chuen, Soaring Crane. Went to his website, and he has a new qigong workbook out specifically for anxiety. Might be just the thing for me and my partner. Liminal

Here´s a somewhat controversial choice: Max´s Kunlun spontaneous movement practice. An easy way in is to get Sifu Jenny Lamb´s self-healing DVD (she calls the practice Yi-gong) which also contains some very useful before and after practices. Liminal

If it can be taken back without asking, and we´re just supposed to sit there and be all philosophical and zen (or tao?) about it, then it wasn´t much of a gift in the first place. Anybody wants to give me something like that, don´t bother. Liminal

As far as the sounds go, I think what´s most important is the feeling. You can do them soft or loud, for a short time or a long time, sitting standing or lying down...but in the end what´s is important is only this -- did you feel the corresponding organ? The sounds are just a tool to get to the feeling. It´s like taking a bus to get home from work. What´s important is not so much the bus ride, it´s whether you made it home. For this reason, I recommend really taking your time with the period after the sound to feel into the organ. You can´t release what you can´t feel, so take time with this part. Liminal

Please take care of yourself Josama. The being of service to other people sounds great. If you are having suicidal thoughts I recommend also reaching out to professional mental health services, counseling or psychiatry. They may not know much about the whole entity thing, but that doesn´t mean they can´t help. I believe you have the power to feel good. Liminal

Well, whatever happens with all this, I´ve got to admire your courage putting yourself out there to be critiqued like this. You asked for help, received replies, and actually seem to have taken advantage of the collective wisdom thrown at you. That´s actually pretty rare in my experience. Kudos! Liminal

The like button makes me very aware, as a poster, of how much I like to be liked. Probably everybody does, I guess, but one of my personal goals is to be more self-contained. To get to a place where being liked feels less flattering, and disliked less onerous. Where I´m simply me and content with myself. Checking whether or not I´m liked can move me in the opposite direction. Then again, that´s life. People like some things and don´t like others, and part of being social beings is letting each other know what´s what.

There´s a lot to be said for "eating to live" rather than the other way around, but I also think that cooking is an art and savoring food can be as valuable as going to a museum or reading a great book. Liminal

Ok...mystical or not I´m not sure, but I wanted to share this poem by James Broughton. Autobiography I took a sharp look I took a long prowl I questioned the serpent I questioned the owl I called up the mayor I called on the sage I tried reading Proust I tried life on the stage I went into therapy I went out for sports I suffered every ailment from sniffles to warts I went to the dogs I went to the Pope I climbed Annapurna I fasted on dope I dug up the desert I delved in the sea But nowhere I looked could I recognize me So eventually I had to give up my plan of escape to Siam and accept myself here just as I am But it wasn’t easy James Broughton.

MooniNite, Do you have a personal story around this? Your own weight-loss journey achieved by putting your ideas into practice? Stories from others you´ve coached? I think personal stories -- and especially yours as the author -- are what motivate people, helping to bring abstract principles of wisdom into the realm of practical advice. Liminal.

I don´t mean to be nitpicky, but I´d question the truth of that last sentence. In many cases, sure...but it´s hardly universal. There are lots of reasons why a woman might want, or just happen to have, a great body besides a desire to attract men. Liminal

Oh I dunno. As a single person the idea of finding solace in a tree seems laughable, I suppose. But I´ll bet there´s more than a few married people who find a nice oak more companionable than their spouse. Liminal

Having a romantic life-partner can be a wonderful thing, and I´d encourage anyone who wants one to take steps to find that special somebody, including online dating. That said, I think it can be useful not to narrow down one´s focus too quickly on that particular brand of love. There are so many ways to be, and feel, connected -- to ourselves, to the larger community, to the universe as a whole. Especially when a person is lonely, and yearning for a lover, embracing the smaller, but still significant, intimacies of life can help ease the pain. Some suggestions... Cultivate connection with oneself through all the practices people talk about here on taobums. Breathing, meditation, smiling. Perhaps something explicitly relational like Metta. Also journaling, artmaking, anything creative. Also, communing with the artistic work of others. Great literature and poetry. Paintings. Feeling the kinship with others through shared understanding. Commune with nature, especially trees. Work on relationships with friends and family. Appreciate all the little opportunities to reach out to people you might not even know. A friendly hello at the grocery chair. Waving to a neighbor. I get that none of these things can replace that one partner that so many of us look for. And I´m not saying to stop looking. Not at all. Just that until you find that person, appreciating the broader possibilities of connection can provide a kind of lifeline that will get you through. Liminal

I love the description of qigong as an in-the-body experience, because that´s exactly the benefit it has for me. Years ago, when my first therapist asked me what I hoped to get out of our sessions I said I wanted to feel more in my body. That kind of stumped him but I still think of it as a very worthy goal, maybe the worthiest goal. When qigong works for me I feel like I´ve "gotten myself together." And I mean this in a subtle but nevertheless quite literal sense. Not that I´ve had the more sensational out-of-body experiences people talk about when the consciousness floats up to the ceiling and you look down at yourself lying there in the bed. That sounds fun and all, but I suspect beginners would do better going in than out. Some speculative thoughts. Maybe the best, and certainly safest, way to go out is to go in. If you go in deep enough and your BIG SELF bodymind would benefit from going out, it will rocket you where you need to go. Automatically. Maybe you don´t need to do anything to go out except keep working on going further and further in. Practices that begin in the other direction seem questionable to me because they can reinforce a tendency we already have to be beside ourselves, to feel alienated, disconnected, fragmented. Going out sounds like more fun, but if you get to the center of yourself you´ll also be at that magic place which is also the center of everybody else, everything else. And what could be cooler than that? Liminal

Thanks Soaring Crane! So hilarious... In a hostel in Spain I came across this sign announcing, I think, a curfew. The hostage will be shot at 10pm.

Oh never mind. I was momentarily snippy over what I perceived to be unwarranted ...well, whatever. Chilling out now.

I´ve bought and practiced from quite a few of Winn´s dvd´s and tapes, as well as gone to retreats. Nothing but good has come has come from the experience. In his retreats he gives a very intellectual framework for understanding the material which might not be right for everyone, but worked for me. I consider his primordial chi gung an underappreciated gem, and simple beginning practices like healing sounds and inner smile can take you far. Have you downloaded the free (I think you have to sign up for a newsletter) ebook on the inner smile? Good stuff. Liminal

To know when its time to stop posting here at TDB and be able to do so. Of course this is partially in jest but a person who can do this one action, when it´s difficult to do so, will also have all sorts of other interpersonal maturity and wisdom. You can´t stop posting unless you can also... (1) let go of the need to be seen as right (2) let go of concern about other people´s opinions (3) allow other people to have their own process, even when you know they are "wrong" (4) recognize the many times in life when the best course of action is no action at all Liminal

Another thought. Consider whether there might be something that your body wants to say that you aren´t allowing yourself to voice. It´s so common to have things to say that we don´t allow ourselves, for whatever reason, to express--especially at work. The anxiety could be your reaction to this inner conflict: part of you wants to get out some pent up emotion, part of you is scared as hell that you just might. Liminal