Tommy

What you said does make sense. There is a sense of me in my sitting of what I had hoped was quiet. The sense of me comes with passing thoughts. When they are let go, there is a sense of presence or awareness. I am alert and I am here. Sometimes that disappears. Not that I am lost in thought but that I just lose awareness of the moment. Then the thoughts return and the sense of me appears again. When it does then I can return to being alert. Aware. Sometimes it feels like a snake chasing its tail.

God is invisible? Is love visible? I do not see love as being visible but I do see the effects of love. Hugs, kisses, gifts and happiness. So, maybe God is invisible?? But maybe, the effects of God is visible if one knows what to look for?? Is boredom a justification for mischief? Or is that just a human explanation of events?

Two men visit an abbot at a monastery at different times. The first man said, “I’m thinking of moving to this town. What is it like?” The abbot asked, “What was it like in your old town?” The first man responded, “It was terrible. Everyone was full of hate. I did not like it there.” The abbot said, “This town is very much the same. I do not think you should move here.” The first man left and the second man came in. The second man said, “I’m thinking of moving to this town. What is it like?” The abbot asked, “What was your old town like?” The second man responded, “It was wonderful. Everyone was nice and friendly. I was happy. Now, I just wanted a change of scenery.” The abbot said, “This town is very much the same. I think you will like it here.”

I have always found that the Zen stories hold more than one point. In ancient times, it was normal for a traveling monk to seek lodging at a Zen monastery. But had to engage in dharma combat with the abbot or disciple. If the monk won the debate, he could stay. If the monk loss, then he had to go elsewhere. The Abbot asked his disciple to engage with a traveling monk, who challenged him to a silent debate. It so happened that this disciple had an accident as a child and had only one eye. The travelling monk returned to the abbot, saying, “Your man is too good for me. I must go journey on. I held up one finger to symbolize the Buddha. But he held up two fingers for the Buddha and the Dharma. So I held up three fingers for the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. But then he held up a clenched fist to indicate they were all one – so I ran to indicate I am no match for him.” After the monk who spoke these words, he left. The disciple arrived and was very angry. “Where is that monk?” he demanded. “He insulted me by holding up one finger to indicate I had only one eye. Determined to be polite, I held up two fingers to indicate that, he was blessed with two eyes. But, he held up three fingers to indicate that all together there were only three eyes among us. So I wanted to hit him with my fist but he ran off.”

The story also points out that wisdom without compassion is meaningless. As the monk does realize the daughter is there not because of some great emotional connection. But, he misses the point of her being there at all. And thus, having realized the monk has not learned this, the old woman burnt the hermitage down which also shows that wisdom without compassion is not complete. True, words on paper do not always convey the true tone of the words. However, from what I have read of your posts, I do realize that you do have much more knowledge of these matters and also have given them much more thought than I have. So, I have no wish to argue a pointless point and just leave it to opinion.

Well there is that poster that says, ... The person says, "I want happiness" The poster says to get rid of the "I" because that is ego Then goes on to say that "want" is desire and to get rid of that Then all that is left is "happiness". Lol.

I am sorry. I disagree with this "Buddha only taught two things." When you live with a person and follow them around, you learn their manner and their wisdom and their compassion. The Buddha might have only spoken about Dukka but much more was passed on than just words. The Dharma is not just about Dukka. Well, that is just my opinion. And, I accept that I am probably wrong. So no argument. I will bow to your wisdom and live the way I see fit. With respect to the story, everyone has their own opinion. The monk has his. The daughter has hers. The old woman certainly has hers. Not everyone agrees. And so I have mine. Apologies.

Craving is a desire? So a desire to do things and enjoy life? So I have to ask why what you are doing must satisfy your desires? Looking for something appealing means you expect something. Maybe if you stop expecting something then maybe you can just be happy. Expecting closure? A transition from one state to the next? Doesn't the expectation cause a barrier from the next state from happening? That gives me the shudders. That is why I have given up wanting enlightenment. Wanting it prevents it from happening. Not wanting it, lets me be me. Happy. Chop wood and carry water. I do not need to look for something appealing. It all is appealing. Even things I do not want to do becomes something to do. Just to do. What did Mark say in the four arisings of mindfulness? The more we try to do right, the more we do wrong.

Okay, nothing satisfies. What is the craving that needs to be satisfied? If you don't have a craving are you bothered by nothing satisfies? Let me see, a blank slate is still a slate. Ready to take up any ideas presented. I like what Bruce lee once said. Be like water. What he actually meant by that I don't know. But, it sounds good. Two guys who haven't seen each other for a long time meet. One guy says, "how have you been and how is that son of yours?". The second guy answers, that he is fine and his son is sitting around all day doing meditation. The first guy responds that sounds great. It is better than just sitting sound doing nothing all day. LOL. Sorry, poor humor.

Thanks for the reply, very much appreciated. No, I am still confused but am sure this might help someone else looking into it. This is the story of my life. Can't get there from here. And still I try. So isn't the definition of crazy like doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome? I keep trying to get there from here. Must be nuts?? So, I sit in my practice of being aware of the moment and watching my thoughts come and go. Nothing changes. Yes, things do seem to quiet down. Thoughts do not come as often but they do arise and vanish. Doing the same thing over and over. Expecting a different outcome??? I have to laugh at the insanity of my actions.

That statement still confuses me. Cause if I try to do the right thing then it is me doing more wrong. So, if I do the wrong thing then it is still me doing more wrong. How can that be right? Sorry about the confusion. I know that this is probably more of my ego talking, ... So, I am a helpless sinner, incapable of doing the right thing. And only by allowing Jesus within and giving it over to Jesus, does the right thing get done. Why? Does giving myself to Jesus disolves me of the responsibilities of my actions? Do I become free to do what I believe Jesus would have me do? If God created me in his image then why am I lesser than Jesus in terms of doing right? Was I made defective that Jesus needs to handle me and my actions?? When people were going to stone the woman for adultery, Jesus said let those who have not sinned cast the first stones. I wondered why Jesus did not throw the first stone. Was Jesus a sinner too?? I know that wasn't the point of his story. I know that I am no where near the level of Jesus in mind or spirit. But, I do not like to look upon people as lesser than what God intended. Maybe that is my mistake. So, the confusion lives on in me.

That sounds like good news. Did Buddha identify life as only suffering due to trying to satisfy our cravings? Or is life a bit more? Having friends and family along with laughter and joy? Wisdom seems to be a companion of compassion. Does that mean we are trying to satisfy our cravings by showing wisdom and compassion towards others? Someone once told me to try smiling while doing ordinary life events. That smiling would transform the outlook of life. In other words, one sets their own frame of reference for life. If all you see is trying to satisfy cravings then that is all life means to you. If you laugh and sing and create then life is fuller. Of course, I could be wrong since I do not sit in the quiet of no thought. I sit in the quiet of my awareness. Thoughts come and go. I let them pass like cars on the road in front of my house. Where they came from and where they go, I have no idea. If my heart is light then I am light. If my heart is dark then I am dark. Does one choose one or the other? Or is that part of one's personality? Or does one have a personality after sitting for so long??

I really must apologize for my lack of sophistication. When I read, "The more we try to do right, the more we do wrong, IMHO. "Making self-surrender the object of thought, one lays hold of concentration, one lays hold of one-pointedness"--that, I believe, is the only way to the "supermundane" components of the way." I am sorry for my lack of understanding. Thanks Mark for the reply. This one is going to haunt me. When I read, "Eventually the initiate has most of its attention in relationships and intent, with the internal matters largely delegated to internal intelligences. One of the attributes of the heart is direct knowing without mental process." I guess that is taken out of context? Sorry. Thanks Lairg for the reply.

Is this how religion started?

I don't know. I look for the self or soul and found that I am a product of this body. I know of nothing else than what this body has produced in terms of myself. I can not find a soul or spirit. But, know that I am here, now. And that is all there is (here, now). This here, now is everywhere else too. It isn't filled with things but it isn't empty either. And it is only because of the persistence of memory that gives this sense of myself. Otherwise, I see no soul or spirit. What kind of journey am I on if I can not find my spirit?